Another thread about Sturgia but this one's in response to the upcoming price hike on cavalry

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flashn00b

Veteran
FULL DISCLOSURE: I do not expect TaleWorlds to buff Sturgia at all cuz it's apparent to me that they have a specific vision in mind that includes them being the absolute worst faction in Bannerlord's multiplayer component. With that out of the way, time to make a pointless thread

Thought i'd make this thread because no one seems to read the unit balance threads and Taleworlds plans on increasing the price of cavalry in a future update. Problem is, the Raider's one of the few units worth playing as and the upcoming price hike will likely leave Sturgia with only 2 worthwhile classes out of a total of 7. Because of this, i think it'd be worth it to detail some changes which i think would make Sturgia actually worth playing as.

Warrior
He only exists to serve one purpose: Punish the player because you died while playing as the Brigand or Raider. In fact, if you reach a point where you've lost all your lives, you're actually better off leaving the server because the Warrior sucks to the point where you'd need to 5v1 a 110 or 120 cost unit in order to have a fighting chance. And in response to the upcoming upcoming price hikes on Cavalry, it might be worth it to make him a viable pick for late joiners

New Base Weapon: Old Horseman's Kite Shield (Warrior will now have a shield regardless of Perk 2 option)
New weapon: Sturgian Polearm
Thrust Speed: 89 2h, 83 1h
Thrust Damage: 26 2h, 20 1h
Length: 185 (This seems to be the minimum length required to stab horses)

Perk 1 Changes (2021-05-06 edit):
Sword and Mace speeds increased by 10%

Perk 2 changes:
Short Spear replaced with Spear (Grants Sturgian Polearm, effective against Cavalry)
Small Shield renamed to Round Shield (Replaces Old Horseman's Kite Shield)

These changes should make the Warrior a decent pick for players who are joining in the middle of a game where other players have already collected enough points to play more expensive units. The Old Horseman's Kite Shield should give players who pick the spear or 2h axe barely enough defense to block arrows, though it's still the absolute worst shield in the game, which could make the Round Shield more enticing for players who are struggling against archers.

EDIT: Also suggesting for the Sword and Mace perks to have faster attack speeds, so as to make them a more attractive alternative to simply just picking Improved Armor and Two-Handed Axe.

Berserker
Imagine the Battanian savage but worse. His base weapon is just the same two-handed axe that the Warrior uses and they didn't even bother to add a positive modifier to it, either. You can probably still fight the Guard and Savage, though there's really only one viable perk setup: Great Axe and Throwing Axes. I don't know how the Perk 2 options can be improved but I think the Great Maul needs to go.

New Weapon: Quarterstaff
A much faster blunt weapon than the Great Maul with more reach too, though I think it'd likely do about 58 or so damage. For reference, the Eastern Heavy Mace deals 69 and the Highland Club deals 49. Maybe a swing speed in the low 90s would be reasonable? Also, given the nature of a quarter staff, I think it'd most likely be a bastard polearm similarly to the glaive, where it can be swung two-handed or be used as a dedicated thrusting weapon when paired with a shield. Dunno what the exact stats would be, but I think it'd be comparable to a pila in terms of reach.

Perk 1 changes:
Great Maul replaced with Quarterstaff (Effective against armored opponents. Can be used as a one-handed thrusting weapon when paired with a shield)

Hunter:
No reason for him to cost 120 when most other light archers cost 110 (In the ranger's defense, you don't wanna get hit by that two-handed axe). Some buffs will definitely be in order if the higher price point is to be justified

Hunting Bow: Damage increased to 44, so as to sit comfortably to the Khuzait and Imperial counterparts (was 38*)
*For reference, the Khuzait and Aserai hunting bow deals 42 and the Imperial version deals 46

Perk 1 changes:
Sword replaced with Imperial Heavy Mace*
*I think this weapon's just a placeholder right now, since it's an Imperial weapon on a Battanian unit

The above suggestion should make the Hunter a more attractive pick now that his base weapon has parity with the light archers of other factions. The Heavy Mace should give better synergy with the Shield Perk than the base axe or even the sword.

Varyag:
Price reduction to 150. Yeah, I don't think there really needs to be much in the ways of changing an already good unit. This is mostly to compensate for the Raider's price hike more than anything else.
 
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KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
The problem with perks is that if we want to balance the game around the perks (and classes), we will spend the next 20 years balancing the game.



Remove classes , equalize running speeds and let people choose their equipment freely.
 
The problem with perks is that if we want to balance the game around the perks (and classes), we will spend the next 20 years balancing the game.



Remove classes , equalize running speeds and let people choose their equipment freely.
+
I dont want to chose between axe or spear, its like chosing between warm and red
At least make perks in same row of same type/way of using
 
+
I dont want to chose between axe or spear, its like chosing between warm and red
At least make perks in same row of same type/way of using
Yeah, all the class system really does is limit the amount of ways you can play and enforce a meta of switch to cav and you're a peasant I'm supposed to get the kill. Devs already admitted that the class system is a way for salty noobs to cheese so they don't have to ragequit.
 

Etonviper

Regular
sturgia is either the best or 2nd best faction in skirmish/captains. why would you buff them. Warrior is a great base inf with up to 24 armor and can be either shield or shock inf. Hunter has a long bow which is why it is 120 not 110 due to the damage. berserker is just eh, i dont play it enough. varyag is easily the best heavy inf in the game. has the 2nd most armor, the heavy axe does 94 swing dmg with 90 swing speed. also has the bastard axe which is the best bastard weapon. Sturgia also has the brigand AND 2 cav options. buffing them would legitimately break the game
 

flashn00b

Veteran
Regarding the posts about the class system and the disapproval to it, I think the main reason that it's there is to prevent the existence of OP death machines that are next to untouchable. It's not perfect, cuz the Vlandian sharpshooter fits that bill of "OP death machine that's next to untouchable" but at least the heavy cavalry can still be speared to death like the rest, and it's usually impossible to break even with the amount of points you spent to spawn as a heavy infantry.

Also, to repsond to the points with the above post:

Warrior
Warrior's Improved Armor and Two-Handed Axe seems like a non-option for the most part. The Shield perk is the same basic shield that the Aserai Tribal Warrior has by default and there aren't really enough reasons to pick the one-handed weapons when the Short Spear is well... short, and it's often more productive to go discount shock troop if you're one of the lucky players to join a server at the start of a game.

Also, I think you missed the part where I said that the Short Spear is kind of worthless due to infantry vs cavalry battles often requiring a 185 reach polearm, hence my suggestion for the Warrior getting a multiplayer-specific Sturgian Polearm.

Varyag/Cavalry
As i mentioned earlier, the Varyag is one of the few Sturgian classes worth playing. However, TaleWorlds says that they plan on making cavalry units more expensive which will hurt Sturgia more than other factions. Bumping the Varyag's cost down to 150 instead of 160 seems to be a good way to compensate for this.

Hunter
Didn't longbows get nerfed some time ago? I get that they are still the option for dealing damage while still being faster than crossbows, though looking at the stats of the default bow makes the Longbow come off as a non-option. The hunting shortbow does acquire targets faster than the longbow, yes but I also mentioned that the Hunter has the weakest version of it compared to other factions. The Sword also doesn't seem like a worthwhile pick if you feel that you need to have a shield hence why I think he should be able to use the same mace wielded by the Battanian Oathsworn.
 
sturgia is either the best or 2nd best faction in skirmish/captains. why would you buff them. Warrior is a great base inf with up to 24 armor and can be either shield or shock inf. Hunter has a long bow which is why it is 120 not 110 due to the damage. berserker is just eh, i dont play it enough. varyag is easily the best heavy inf in the game. has the 2nd most armor, the heavy axe does 94 swing dmg with 90 swing speed. also has the bastard axe which is the best bastard weapon. Sturgia also has the brigand AND 2 cav options. buffing them would legitimately break the game
as siege player i also agree, as they are 2nd best faction in this mode (after Battania), because of best heavy infantry, OP longaxes and well-rounded archer with long bow
I guess only mode where they dont shine is TDM since they dont have some jacks*it like horse menavlions, couched-lance light cav, horse glaivers, etc
 
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