if i were shutting down the debate i would have locked the thread, babe. i just called it ****. you're a big boy, you can handle it.
Am I racist or is this game too woke?
- Thread starter Mad Vader
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If all it takes is mild trolling from a terminally sarcastic german punk to turn you racist then you were already racist.
Ocassionally I find monty's dismissiveness kind of cringe, but you made a racist troll thread about how seeing negroes annoys you, and then get defensive when people take the piss, what kinds of reactions did you expect? It would actually be less offensive and actually kinda funny if you were just plain trolling, but it comes across like you actually believe the stuff in the original post. I don't even know what to think anymore.
The most charitable argument I could make is that yes, sometimes shows and games shoehorn non-white people in and it feels awkward and forced. But you only notice that if the game or show is already bad. Unfortunately now people are inferring a correlation between bad shows and diversity, which is only made worse by posts like yours. I also find it funny that you got so annoyed at monty, despite another guy coming into the thread to say THE ARYANϟ ARᗕ BᗕING ᗕRAϟED!!!
@Antoine de Saint-Exupéry : Thanks for sharing the essay like post. I took my time to read it and it was certainly interesting. I'm certainly no expert in Tolkien and the post held plenty of new stuff for me. Though reading it I think whats going on is that we are talking past each other.
I very much agree with your statements in your conclusion:
"But the problem with going hands-off, as Tolkien did within his works, is people will tell others what you “really meant”, and the people who speak the loudest on those lines tend to be the people who are most concerned with race. They'll assume your stances are theirs if they like what you have, and they'll assume your stances are their enemies’ if they don't. This is why Tolkien can explicitly badmouth Nazi race-doctrine, call Hitler a “ruddy little ignoramus” and still be loved by white supremacists."
However this cuts both ways. It is not only the far-right which is obsessed with race. The progressive left is too. And just like far-right types would love to see only whites in their epic tales and other ethnicities if at all as the baddies, far-left pogressives want the opposite. This, at least as a tendency, I see in a lot of in modern media.
I'm indeed very thankful you decided to share your post. If you hadn't done that you would have left the impression with me of a bad-mouthed far-left loonie. I do believe in fact in some regard our views aren't at all that dissimilar. Here you bascially make my point:
"Now, I should (even though it pains me to feel I need it) should give the disclaimer that I'm not saying Tolkien was creating a speckled crowd of characters that you would see in a modern city. I'm also not saying he was creating an Aryan wonderland. I'm saying he did not have the preoccupation with the simple and stupid idea of Race that is the common denominator to both those lines of thought. If you let either of these lines of thought dominate your view, you're always going to get something mangled when you look at how he describes populations."
Modern media tries their hardest to stick the "speckled crowd of characters that you would see in a modern (western) city" (if not more than that) in almost everything. In medieval fantasy movies this is immersion breaking, in historical movies or worse still documentaries this is outright historical revisionism.
I won't deny that to me there is more to this than that. I think this tendency has an ideological origin which I very much despise (I talked about how the left in fact is too obsessed with race). If it wasn't for that I would be far more tolerant of such things. It is similar to how the left thinks whitewashing is the worst thing ever because they think it was done with the intention to erase other ethnicities.
You are reading way to much into my post. It is like you are hearing some non existant far-right dog whistle.
I very much agree with your statements in your conclusion:
"But the problem with going hands-off, as Tolkien did within his works, is people will tell others what you “really meant”, and the people who speak the loudest on those lines tend to be the people who are most concerned with race. They'll assume your stances are theirs if they like what you have, and they'll assume your stances are their enemies’ if they don't. This is why Tolkien can explicitly badmouth Nazi race-doctrine, call Hitler a “ruddy little ignoramus” and still be loved by white supremacists."
However this cuts both ways. It is not only the far-right which is obsessed with race. The progressive left is too. And just like far-right types would love to see only whites in their epic tales and other ethnicities if at all as the baddies, far-left pogressives want the opposite. This, at least as a tendency, I see in a lot of in modern media.
I'm indeed very thankful you decided to share your post. If you hadn't done that you would have left the impression with me of a bad-mouthed far-left loonie. I do believe in fact in some regard our views aren't at all that dissimilar. Here you bascially make my point:
"Now, I should (even though it pains me to feel I need it) should give the disclaimer that I'm not saying Tolkien was creating a speckled crowd of characters that you would see in a modern city. I'm also not saying he was creating an Aryan wonderland. I'm saying he did not have the preoccupation with the simple and stupid idea of Race that is the common denominator to both those lines of thought. If you let either of these lines of thought dominate your view, you're always going to get something mangled when you look at how he describes populations."
Modern media tries their hardest to stick the "speckled crowd of characters that you would see in a modern (western) city" (if not more than that) in almost everything. In medieval fantasy movies this is immersion breaking, in historical movies or worse still documentaries this is outright historical revisionism.
I won't deny that to me there is more to this than that. I think this tendency has an ideological origin which I very much despise (I talked about how the left in fact is too obsessed with race). If it wasn't for that I would be far more tolerant of such things. It is similar to how the left thinks whitewashing is the worst thing ever because they think it was done with the intention to erase other ethnicities.
You are again projecting to much onto me. Probably we have the very same concerns why we think the show will be garbage. Racial diversity will be absolutely the least of its problems. People like to get hung up on this because thats what they can primarily make out from the trailers and because of similar reasons why I get hung up on this.
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I was not talking about myself and there was a nuance to my statement, but you took the easy way just to insult me. Great job.
It's not a racist troll thread and there was no intention to make it such. You are simply unable to participate in a debate on forced diversity without calling people names.
That is the tendency that you see in the version of the "far-left progressives" that is being presented to you by certain people who are trying to fabricate outrage so that people fight against each other over nothing instead of banding together to solve real problems.
By the way, we are all the same race. Tolkien knew that the concept of race was unscientific, I cannot for the life of me understand why so many people haven't caught up on that decades after that.
Here's an additional kicker in case you didn't know: you (and everyone else) also happen to be part Neanderthal.
This is probably the most accurate description of Monty I’ve ever seen, I’d add it as his custom title if he didn’t already have one
That's exactly what's going on in the right wing echo chambers every single day. It takes away the possibility of discussing this constructively.
But then the Monties ride in on their high horses, and prove the right-wingers right.
Speak for yourself, Neo.
Forget Neanderthal, our original ancestors were bacteria. We're just the most sophisticated virus infesting this planet.
Well yeah but what I mean by that is that a large part of humans have DNA bits that come directly from Neanderthals (who are not our ancestors). Neanderthals actually were a different race, but our ancestors mixed up with them (before, you know, eventually causing them to go extinct).
Also confusing to mention bacteria as ancestor to viruses. But since no one is really sure I can't say it's wrong.
Didn't some religious text prove we were all related to a single god bacteria?
Please forgive me. I fully understood, but assumed this was a joke thread where @MadVader put himself on a psychiatrist's couch to stave off boredom.
Inappropriate behavior
~snip~
I hope you're ok, thinking that the human race is a virus infesting the planet may show signs of a suicidal pathology. Take care.
?
it is.
Oh eat it, you're cherrypicking your responses just so you can say: See, they're proving us right again!
You know what it is you're looking for, it's validation. You are not open to different opinions or arguments. I called you out on it on the first page here and thus far you've done absolutely nothing to disprove it. On the contrary, everything you've said after only further proves my point.
So even though you've started this thread to start a discussion, which has worked, you've let it derail by dismissing other viewpoints and cherrypicking your responses.
Okay, please sum up your argument so I can destroy it, because I can't see it here and I don't want to guess. Thank you!
Your immediate response, once again, is dismissing other viewpoints.
You are avoiding a question. You laid a blanket criticism on me, now substantiate it. This shouldn't be hard.
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I did, on the second page, which you ignored. But since then it has become painstakingly obvious that you are not looking for a substantiated discussion. I'm not asking you to engage anymore. The comment I'm referring to was made in good faith and these last few comments have made it clear that that's not an option anymore. A good faith discussion starts with respecting different viewpoints and listening and understanding where they come from. Not taking an unwavering stance and looking for arguments merely to "destroy" them.
So I'll leave you to it, MadVader. See you around.
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