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-3 Owner Culture Penalty is Too High!

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vertibird

Recruit
This forces me to choose Empire origin because half of the cities are Empire culture. With -3 culture penalty its too difficult to neutralise it (even same culture governor only gives +1). Lots of policies also give 0.5 to 1 loyalty with some penalties. Reducing owner culture penalty to -1 would solve the issue.
Any opinions?
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
Well, it looks like something related to avoid snowballing and making harder for some kingdoms to roll over all the whole map. -3 culture is still doable for the player in my opinion.
 

vertibird

Recruit
Well, it looks like something related to avoid snowballing and making harder for some kingdoms to roll over all the whole map. -3 culture is still doable for the player in my opinion.
Doable? Well I'll try but it will be very annoying dealing with crazy -3 loyalty per town I govern.
 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
Doable? Well I'll try but it will be very annoying dealing with crazy -3 loyalty per town I govern.
Building Fairgrounds you can get +1.5 Loyalty if I remember correctly. Plus +0.5 picking a same culture governor. Then there are some other loyalty bonuses you can get through perks.
 

murtega

Knight
It is managable. Loyalty tends to stay around 50 even if you do nothing at all because of the loyalty drift, considering the place isn't starving, you protect the villages from being raided and security is maxed. If you assign a companion from the same culture and build the related improvements and choose festivities as daily activity, it eventually reaches 99 even.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Building Fairgrounds you can get +1.5 Loyalty if I remember correctly. Plus +0.5 picking a same culture governor. Then there are some other loyalty bonuses you can get through perks.
Just to expand on your post:
S2AsCa6.png

+1 from the same culture governor
+1.5 from full fairgrounds
+0.6 - 1 for high security
+0.5 for high relations (which you'll get automatically from the Emissary ticks due to your governor)

The only element that can screw you is Loyalty Drift and that is because it is meant to screw you over. People wanted to see more rebellions so they cranked the Loyalty Drift even higher.

This is before applying any perks, so you can just grab any same-culture hobo from a tavern and make him governor; they all work equally well for the purpose of increasing loyalty.
 

vertibird

Recruit
Thanks for the tips, I'll try these. But looking at those numbers above they are still small compared to huge -3 penalty to nearly every city you will govern. Governor is good for a few cities but sadly there is companion limit and you need companions for other jobs too.
 
The -3 hit for owning a town of a different culture and the -1 for a governor of a different culture do present a challenge, but there are ways to offset them.

First, get a governor of the same culture. Either marry someone, or hook one of your brothers up with someone of the same culture. Check for companions of same culture. If you are lucky, you'll find an engineer who fits the bill.

Having no governor is better than having one of the wrong culture.

If your loyalty is in the crapper, cancel all production and set daily default to Festivals. This will start pushing your loyalty up.

Boost your garrison. This will increase security, which increases loyalty.

When you can build again, build a Fairgrounds to increase loyalty. A fully developed fairground will almost cancel out that -3. Other priority construction -- Orchards (or Gardens in Castle) and Granary, Workshops, Marketplace, Aquaduct. If food is not an issue, start with Workshops to increase Construction.

Handle every settlement issue and bound village issue to increase security. (Exception - Do not do the ones for gang members, as having these actually increase security.)

Stay close to defend your villages from raids. Raided villages produce no food, and no food produces unhappy citizens, which will eventually tank your loyalty.

And if you are in a kingdom, enact policies that increase loyalty. There are several, and these can counteract the -3 malus, too.

This isn't like Warband, where you could conquer and ignore. In this game, you have to actually be a ruler and take care of your subjects.

Eventually, you achiev a kind of equilibrium where you don't have to babysit them constantly inluess you are at war. Then you can move on to new conquests.
 

Zorion_no

Regular
The -3 hit for owning a town of a different culture and the -1 for a governor of a different culture do present a challenge, but there are ways to offset them.

First, get a governor of the same culture. Either marry someone, or hook one of your brothers up with someone of the same culture. Check for companions of same culture. If you are lucky, you'll find an engineer who fits the bill.

Having no governor is better than having one of the wrong culture.

If your loyalty is in the crapper, cancel all production and set daily default to Festivals. This will start pushing your loyalty up.

Boost your garrison. This will increase security, which increases loyalty.

When you can build again, build a Fairgrounds to increase loyalty. A fully developed fairground will almost cancel out that -3. Other priority construction -- Orchards (or Gardens in Castle) and Granary, Workshops, Marketplace, Aquaduct. If food is not an issue, start with Workshops to increase Construction.

Handle every settlement issue and bound village issue to increase security. (Exception - Do not do the ones for gang members, as having these actually increase security.)

Stay close to defend your villages from raids. Raided villages produce no food, and no food produces unhappy citizens, which will eventually tank your loyalty.

And if you are in a kingdom, enact policies that increase loyalty. There are several, and these can counteract the -3 malus, too.

This isn't like Warband, where you could conquer and ignore. In this game, you have to actually be a ruler and take care of your subjects.

Eventually, you achiev a kind of equilibrium where you don't have to babysit them constantly inluess you are at war. Then you can move on to new conquests.


alot of good tips but overall though, the rate of rebellion cause the AI cant keep loyalty in check is just too high same for lack of loyalty for looted villages.
Since AI dont do nothing but be in armies more or less(I do see them rarely "solved an issue" while visiting a village).
The constant cycle of war, means the ai cant tend to theese issues either.

As for the player, -3 is "nothing"
got to micromanage it until you get about the fairgrounds rank 3 as you said.

There is however one thing that the op touches on that is correct though, 50% of the map is Empire so if you choose that as your culture its now a huge advantage in most cases(as you can just give back the fiefs you dont like, then if you dont have any, when there's an empire one up for grabs you are likely to get it and thus no worries(have a Empire governor on top of that..)

Governors though is key to haveing better relations, I always hire 1 of each culture just for this mostly, so I can atleast get +1 from governors culture.

Also for later game -> family though wont count as companions so you can have alot of relatives as governors.
 
Well, it looks like something related to avoid snowballing and making harder for some kingdoms to roll over all the whole map. -3 culture is still doable for the player in my opinion.
Doable? Well I'll try but it will be very annoying dealing with crazy -3 loyalty per town I govern.
It's very doable if it's the only issue you having with it. Just put in enough security to get it + for loyalty bonus and if you can build the orchards, then switch back to daily festivals you should get it balanced out. The main trick is you have to let loyalty build back up (say to 50+) before you work on more upgrades, then switch it back to festival before it get to 25. Of course clear quest issues and don't let the villages get raided. If you can't stop the enemy form raiding.... well that's the game... what can I say.
If you're given (or capture) a town with already very low loyalty..... that stinks and sometimes you can't get everything sorted out, so just pull your wanted garrison out and attack the rebels ASAP when they pop, take it back and you you have high loyalty to try again.

I do think it would be nice to add something to reduce it after a LONG time though, like if you've ruled for a decade maybe it can drop 1 and thus 3 decades they've accepted you.
 
It's very doable if it's the only issue you having with it. Just put in enough security to get it + for loyalty bonus and if you can build the orchards, then switch back to daily festivals you should get it balanced out. The main trick is you have to let loyalty build back up (say to 50+) before you work on more upgrades, then switch it back to festival before it get to 25. Of course clear quest issues and don't let the villages get raided. If you can't stop the enemy form raiding.... well that's the game... what can I say.
If you're given (or capture) a town with already very low loyalty..... that stinks and sometimes you can't get everything sorted out, so just pull your wanted garrison out and attack the rebels ASAP when they pop, take it back and you you have high loyalty to try again.

I do think it would be nice to add something to reduce it after a LONG time though, like if you've ruled for a decade maybe it can drop 1 and thus 3 decades they've accepted you.
Well it gets reduced when notables spawns. You can only convince 1 notable to be supporter of your clan(relation 100) which gives you the +0.5 in loyalty(at the beginning) . If prosperity grows a new notable will spawn who doesn't support any clan. If you get the relation with him to 100 he will also add a 0.5 to loyalty which makes +1 in general. It would go faster if you could change the other supporters( there is no reason why they still hold on a clan which doesn't own the town and you have full relation with them)
 
Have to add a question here. My artisan got lost in a town(cause of low prosperity?) than a merchant becomes the "owner of artisans". After stabilising the town a new artisan notable was added but the merchant is still the "owner". The result is that the merchant notable is near 570 power and the artisan loses power continously without any quest. So how can I solve this problem?

I mean as time goes by, the artisan will get lost again, reappear and so on.... Cause he has nothing to make money with?
 

Antaeus

Sergeant
I haven't had too many problems in my 1.5.10 playthrough yet.

I own Epicrotea and Omor as a Battanian, prior in 1.5.9 I found myself having to chase quests to keep cities level, but I haven't had to do that thus far here. I think wealth helps.
 
Cause he owns no assets; by selling 'artisans' he became vulnerable to poofing. As long as a notable owns even one asset (caravan, shop, street corner, whatever) they won't poof.
And how he can become owner of something again, when the merchant gets lost or how? I mean I can't do anything about it, or?
 

Apocal

Master Knight
And how he can become owner of something again, when the merchant gets lost or how? I mean I can't do anything about it, or?
He (or another artisan) can buy a workshop if one of them is sold. You can't do anything about it, no. I tried driving specific merchant notables out of business by destroying their caravans repeatedly but reducing their wealth/power that way just takes way, way too ****ing long.
 

vertibird

Recruit
It's very doable if it's the only issue you having with it. Just put in enough security to get it + for loyalty bonus and if you can build the orchards, then switch back to daily festivals you should get it balanced out. The main trick is you have to let loyalty build back up (say to 50+) before you work on more upgrades, then switch it back to festival before it get to 25. Of course clear quest issues and don't let the villages get raided. If you can't stop the enemy form raiding.... well that's the game... what can I say.
If you're given (or capture) a town with already very low loyalty..... that stinks and sometimes you can't get everything sorted out, so just pull your wanted garrison out and attack the rebels ASAP when they pop, take it back and you you have high loyalty to try again.

I do think it would be nice to add something to reduce it after a LONG time though, like if you've ruled for a decade maybe it can drop 1 and thus 3 decades they've accepted you.
.Thanks for the reply. Yes the penalty shouldnt be forever.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Thanks for the tips, I'll try these. But looking at those numbers above they are still small compared to huge -3 penalty to nearly every city you will govern. Governor is good for a few cities but sadly there is companion limit and you need companions for other jobs too.
Just two quick tips:

1) Those bonuses all stack upon one another and don't include specific +loyalty perks. You can pretty reasonably get up to +6-8 loyalty with full bonuses, a bit of luck depending.

2) This is more late-game strategy but by time you're dealing with enough towns that you're worried about the companion limit, you should have enough family members to cover all your party roles. So you can dedicate all nine companions to governing. Your spouse, two brothers and their wives plus your sister can do all the party stuff. Maybe not surgeon because of the way Medicine doesn't really level but that still leaves like eight governors.
 

SadShogun

A Furtherer of the Calradic Cause
Developer
Hey, I would like to ask about a possible feature we are thinking about, would it be too much micromanagement if we had an option to exempt towns from taxation to reduce the loyalty penalty.

The main problems with this feature are that currently, you require to go to the settlement to actually manage them. Maybe we can order it through the fiefs menu, but I am not sure. Also if we enable this for the AI as well, since AI tends to have more resources than the player and this can put the player at an economical disadvantage.

Also, reducing loyalty penalty from cultural differences is something we can add, but it is already simulated a bit through the notables changing their allegiance and also increase the possibility of large snowballing empires (if they can manage to hold out for a year or two for example)

As always thank you for your feedback and discussion.
 
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