2016 U.S. Presidential Elections: The Circus Is In Full Swing

Flin Flon

attacking the narrative that disproportionately centres looting to suppress the actual issue and that is used as a vehicle of propaganda by the state is not the same as defending looting.
It is to people unless you preface that you condem looting.
Also, looting does happen. I would not be surprised if the police is overstretched to the degree that they can't stop looters, hence the deployment of other forces can be justified (but not the excessive use of force of the police or guard).

It's so much easier to just say "ok **** the looters, but wtf is this response against protesters and this complete lack of comptent leadership?".
 

Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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so what you're saying is that looting is a viable militant strategy to overstretch police resources and resultingly prevent them from further brutalising peaceful protestors as they are otherwise wont to do. :iamamoron:
 

Flin Flon

I know you're joking (right? right?????). But to be sure, if you get to gymnast your way into romanticizing looters as noble folks defending peaceful protestors, then the guys on the other side get to romanticize the police.
 

Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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and clearly you're suggesting that as more and more military forces are called in, the only viable solution is for the looting to intensify to further strain their resources and protect the protestors. :iamamoron:

no **** i'm joking.
 
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@Lord Brutus, I can't say for sure that this is what @Kentucky James VII was referring to but I guess that this is a source for what he was saying. I stumbled on it today while trying to learn more about what is going on.


I also find that the youtube video at the bottom of the article does a good job at pointing out what the real problem is.
 
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Flin Flon

and clearly you're suggesting that as more and more military forces are called in, the only viable solution is for the looting to intensify to further strain their resources and protect the protestors. :iamamoron:

no **** i'm joking.
Hey idk (some of) you people are insane.
 
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kurczak

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Also, Kurczak stop being cringe.
Hmm, I could, but first I would have to ask myself how that would affect the social incentives of my underlying first principles vis-a-vis overall net consequences on the cost-effectiveness of policy proposals. Inherently, there is a certain socio-psychological risk of figurative sufficiency of such rhetoric.
 

Lord Brutus

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I understand the desire to protest when a man dies in police custody. But protest is not easy or convenient or without risk. I protested all day Sunday on the sofa in my living room. But for significant protest one must go to the scene of the crime, i.e. Minnesota. You don't get to protest in Charlotte, NC and call it a day. The facts , as they exist in Minneapolis, are not similar to other areas of the country. Law enforcement here is managed by black people. Unless you assume once they take the jobs they become white and racist there is nothing to protest here.
 

Vermillion_Hawk

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I understand the desire to protest when a man dies in police custody. But protest is not easy or convenient or without risk. I protested all day Sunday on the sofa in my living room. But for significant protest one must go to the scene of the crime, i.e. Minnesota. You don't get to protest in Charlotte, NC and call it a day. The facts , as they exist in Minneapolis, are not similar to other areas of the country. Law enforcement here is managed by black people. Unless you assume once they take the jobs they become white and racist there is nothing to protest here.
Just because the police department has diverse management does not mean that the rank-and-file don't have their own issues. Whether it's an issue with training and police academies or a cultural problem endemic in the departments, I've seen and heard far too many things to think that the problems inherent in the current police system (and there are problems) can be fixed purely by hiring black/brown/whatever management. Obviously diversifying the police force helps, but when it comes to arrest situations like the one in question, de-escalation techniques and general empathy are as important, if not more than, racial sensitivity.

I feel that protesting the police (and not rioting) in response is reasonable regardless of where you are, but I don't think it will help much unless something drastic changes either from a federal level or from within police departments.
 

Lord Brutus

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County sheriff, Garry McFadden, was elected by a majority white county, after 30 some years as a homicide detective with the Charlotte PD. I'm certain there are white people in the county who hold racist views but not within the law enforcement parts of the city or county.
 

Flin Flon

Just because the police department has diverse management does not mean that the rank-and-file don't have their own issues. Whether it's an issue with training and police academies or a cultural problem endemic in the departments, I've seen and heard far too many things to think that the problems inherent in the current police system (and there are problems) can be fixed purely by hiring black/brown/whatever management. Obviously diversifying the police force helps, but when it comes to arrest situations like the one in question, de-escalation techniques and general empathy are as important, if not more than, racial sensitivity.

I feel that protesting the police (and not rioting) in response is reasonable regardless of where you are, but I don't think it will help much unless something drastic changes either from a federal level or from within police departments.
That's insightful, cheers.
 

Lord Brutus

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And my point was, at least here, that changes have been made within our local police and sheriff's departments.

I posted this before. Now look at it. The man in charge is black. Can you imagine him being racist against other blacks? http://www.mecksheriff.com/
 
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Vermillion_Hawk

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And while I don't know too much about how your county organizes its police department, the sheriff being an elected official presents some problems in itself in that there is continuity among the uniformed officers but not among the administration. I know from experience that it's difficult to remove bad actors in any organization with rotating management, and holding a public office presents other issues in that one's career relies on one's good standing in the community, and firing a bad batch of cops can damage that. "Reform" rarely happens swiftly internally.
 

Kentucky James VII

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I posted this before. Now look at it. The man in charge is black. Can you imagine him being racist against other blacks?
Yes. Some of the most racist people I know personally are black. Racism is a power structure which requires the implicit participation of people of all skin colours, and in a system as racially ingrained as the US Police force, if you put a person in a position of power they start acting like a racist cop, regardless of their skin colour.

In Italy a few years back there was a case where a woman's rape case was overruled because the judges thought the woman was too ugly to be raped. All the judges were women. In a system as sexist as the Italian judicial system it barely matters that there are women on the panel because it's the system that makes them sexist, not the other way round.