Mount and Javs 2 : Throwinglords (skirmish mode)

[Yukmouth++]

Lets do a little exercise shall we ? Lets take a look at some of the heavy infantry troops and look at these perks, SURELY there are perks better than Throwing weapons in there.

Legionary : must choose between Spear, Pilas and Heavy Axe.

God, i just learned that Legionary can pick an Axe, is this a new feature ? Why pick a spear when you can pick Pilas ? They are vastly superior in so many ways it's like asking me if i'd rather get 100$ or 500$.

Sergents : Spears, Throwing Axes or Javelins.

Jeez, i wonder what are the odds that another stuff thrower will spawn this round.

Oathsworn : Range Javelins, Spear, Stronger Javelins (so basicly this class has javelins no matter what).

If there is anything Battania lacks, it is clearly RANGED damage potential, for sure...obviously a MACE perk wouldnt fit right in.

Varyag : Throwing Axe, Javelins, Spear

I have a feeling of deja vu, i feel like some of the choices are repeating themselves, would it be because... no... its the META of the game ? You must choose between throwing axes or throwing javelins, or even sometimes throwing rocks. Whats the next perk, adding that we can throw our voulges on people ? Lets throw our shields aswell like captain america.

 

[HancockT35]

Eb when he see's someone defending throwing weapons

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Eb when he see's someone defending throwing weapons

More like

I will absolutely die on this hill.

 

[Yukmouth++]

More like

I will absolutely die on this hill.

As will i brother, my sword will be yours against those baseball pitcher lovers.

 

[HancockT35]

More like

I will absolutely die on this hill.

I disagree when i play archer and a inf can just 1 shot me with a pila I think to myself WOW what fantastic game design!!!!

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

I disagree when i play archer and a inf can just 1 shot me with a pila I think to myself WOW what fantastic game design!!!!

Id rather deal with 4 pilas between 2 lives than *checks math* 18 javelins between 3 skirmisher lives. The number is actually a lot higher than 18 because of the amount you can pick up.

 

[WMorton]

Id rather deal with 4 pilas between 2 lives than *checks math* 18 javelins between 3 skirmisher lives. The number is actually a lot higher than 18 because of the amount you can pick up.

Actually, *checks math* it would still be 18 javelins between 3 skirmisher lives if your the only skirmisher

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Actually, *checks math* it would still be 18 javelins between 3 skirmisher lives if your the only skirmisher

False. You can loot javelins from corpses and shields. The number of javelins you can throw and loot is theoretically infinite if you are fighting an infinite amount of opponents.

 

[HancockT35]

False. You can loot javelins from corpses and shields. The number of javelins you can throw and loot is theoretically infinite if you are fighting an infinite amount of opponents.

Infinite pilas

 

[CBeetle]

Unknown has the best Inf squad ever assembled so far.

? Nahh..

For real tho, projectiles are some srs bull**** rn. Inf would rather walk at you with a pila or jav ready to go rather than a sword because of the damage difference, and how easy they are to throw in a straight line. Pretty sure its the momentum damage multiplier that needs tweaking though, and perhaps the accuracy of the weapon.. And get rid of kick javing. Thats some stupid ****.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Infinite pilas

At least players who play legionary have balls large enough to actually pull out a sword and use the infantry class to play infantry. Skirmisher players are completely content throwing their 6 meme sticks, running away like a eunuch until you stop chasing them, and then returning to find more meme sticks just laying around. I dont think ive ever seen a skirmisher die without at least 1 javelin in their inventory. Its pathetic.

? Nahh..

I mean this in the least rude way possible, because you guys have been playing really well and deserve to be undefeated, but I cant in good faith say that a team is the best at anything after watching them lose to Calradic Legion like 2 weeks ago. Thats not a dig at CL either, but I think its understood there is a couple degrees of separation there.

 

[Yukmouth++]

At least players who play legionary have balls large enough to actually pull out a sword and use the infantry class to play infantry. Skirmisher players are completely content throwing their 6 meme sticks, running away like a eunuch until you stop chasing them, and then returning to find more meme sticks just laying around. I dont think ive ever seen a skirmisher die with at least 1 javelin in their inventory. Its pathetic.

What other choice do Aserai have ? Theres no inf option for them.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

What other choice do Aserai have ? Theres no inf option for them.

Yeah and thats a problem. Let the Tribal warrior have the large shield and the mace and a spear at the same time and they would be passable light inf. Honestly they need to go back to how it was in beta. Tribal warrior at 100 gold and skirmisher at 120. Skirmisher is miles better than Tribal Warrior right now and having it cost less is really bad.

 

[FearSpear]

Throwing weapons are a symptom of a broader issue with the game design. Notably how underpowered most melee weapons are against armor, and how overpowered shields are. It takes a ridiculous amount of time to beat somebody 1v1 shielding, and this has simply made the meta throwing weapons. The issue here stems from these problems, not necessarily from throwing weapons themselves.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

Throwing weapons are a symptom of a broader issue with the game design. Notably how underpowered most melee weapons are against armor, and how overpowered shields are. It takes a ridiculous amount of time to beat somebody 1v1 shielding, and this has simply made the meta throwing weapons. The issue here stems from these problems, not necessarily from throwing weapons themselves.

Throwing weapons being 8x more abundant and 4x more accurate than warband really doesnt help

 

[Dextrus]

I am sorry. Ebdanian and yukmouth. I don’t know if you guys ever actually played in a somehow reasonable high skill skirmish game but I am telling you that throwing weapons are not the ones that kill 75% of the people. Not even combined with archers.
The only reason why skirmishers are strong right now is that they cost 100 gold and have 6 javs, which allows Aserai to spawn 3 times in the first round. They are glass cannons however and once their javs are gone they are weaker than and other 100 gold unit except maybe the imperial recruit.

so please please stop spreading wrong facts and discrediting people like Aprioksenmann who would smash both of you 99 times out of a 100 duels.

 

[FearSpear]

4x more accurate than warband

They arent as accurate because their projectile speed is significantly slower. Even though the reticule is slightly smaller, this means nothing if you can basically dodge them from any distance except for point blank. In addition to this, the reason they seem to fly like missiles during flight and have a flat arc is not because they are flying faster, it is because the gravity constant they calculated for BL is something like 5m/s instead of 9.81m/s as it should be. IE: The gravity on the "planet" of Bannerlord is closer to Mars than Earth and this makes things feel strange.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

As much as this seems impossible... in fact it seems crazy as I type it...

I actually agree with Ebdanian...

The throwing weapon spam is pretty aweful; and the kick-throw 'glitch' is really oppressive. I hope that gets looked at as a priority. Triple live skirmishers just trying to do their best to pull of that janky combo makes playing against Aserai just god aweful...

 

[Zoonanay]

I think throwing mechanics functionality doesn't need a great deal of adjustment to be balanced.

I've noted on taller characters you can bump when performing a kick/throw if the enemy is too close to you, I'd be curious if other people encounter a similar problem, when I tested it for a few games on a smaller character it seemed far less frequent.

Expanding this threshold to get bumped could be way to make kick/throw a more skill based move, not only requiring landing the kick and timing the throw, but also kicking the enemy at the precise distance to be able to kick/throw without bumping.

Pierce headshot damage should be increased to a higher multiplier value whilst also decreasing pierced ranged damage across the board. This would add reward for precise accuracy whilst stopping heavy infantry from getting triple body shot killed by archers or doubled by javelins.

Counter-strafing even for half a second can reduce the movement inaccuracy of throwing weapons massively, if done perfectly it can even remove it entirely. Whilst this is a skill based move, the speed at which you can do it if executed well is rather absurd, the deceleration is not even noticeable if you didn't know to look for it.

Melee damage values are also too high, the Jereed has 30+ and so do most improved javelins. In the case of the Aserai Skirmisher the sword is so redundant I drop it to reduce weight, the Jereed's are just that much better in melee than the sword.

Things like Aserai Skirmishers having 6 javs and 3 lives is just ludicrously poor balancing. I'd be indeed curious to understand why this hasn't changed or was even originally implemented as a design decision.

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

I am sorry. Ebdanian and yukmouth. I don’t know if you guys ever actually played in a somehow reasonable high skill skirmish game but I am telling you that throwing weapons are not the ones that kill 75% of the people. Not even combined with archers.
The only reason why skirmishers are strong right now is that they cost 100 gold and have 6 javs, which allows Aserai to spawn 3 times in the first round. They are glass cannons however and once their javs are gone they are weaker than and other 100 gold unit except maybe the imperial recruit.

so please please stop spreading wrong facts and discrediting people like Aprioksenmann who would smash both of you 99 times out of a 100 duels.

I am going to give you benefit of the doubt and assume you are both EU. The NA meta is completely different. it is not uncommon to see 4 skirmishers in the same alleyway on the town map. How "squishy" someone is means NOTHING when you cant swing at someone without getting Skeyed and kickjaved or hit by one of the other javs flying in at a different angle as they kite away. Drop in on an NA pickup party and see for yourself. Or watch a stream of a match where aserai is played in NABB. Pray to your socialist Gods that the NA meta doesnt reach EU before they hopefully nerf it.

They arent as accurate because their projectile speed is significantly slower. Even though the reticule is slightly smaller, this means nothing if you can basically dodge them from any distance except for point blank. In addition to this, the reason they seem to fly like missiles during flight and have a flat arc is not because they are flying faster, it is because the gravity constant they calculated for BL is something like 5m/s instead of 9.81m/s as it should be. IE: The gravity on the "planet" of Bannerlord is closer to Mars than Earth and this makes things feel strange.

Projectile speed means basically nothing when most of the kills are within 5 meters