Mount and Javs 2 : Throwinglords (skirmish mode)

[Yukmouth++]

There is something deeply off about the current meta of skirmish. I would be so curious to get some statistics from TW about the causes of deaths in skirmish, because i feel like AT the very least 75% of the deaths are caused by a projectile of some sort, be it throwing weapons or archery. This is one of the MANY reasons why it is so obnoxious to play infantry, and practically nobody ever bothers to do so anymore. Playing Infantry as become a lame-attempt at a game of boring dodgeball, where every ennemy you encounter ends up throwing stuff at you, while his teamates are throwing stuff at you from every angles imaginable. This meta is getting so annoyingly boring, it needs a nerf.

Issues i see :
-Throwing weapons and Crossbows deal way... WAY too much damage. Doing a one shot kill with a throwing weapon is a way too recurrent event in skirmish. Pilas are possibly the most op of the bunch when it comes to damage.
-Classes that, imo, should not have access to throwing weapons do have access to it : legionary, sergents, oathsworms, etc.
-Completely impossible to play 2h classes such as voulgier, menav, in competitive skirmish. Basicly, picking a 2h class will get you ridiculed by the ennemy team and flamed by your own team for throwing the game.
-Some classes have too many throwing weapons
-Bolts hits for way too much damage.
-Damage metigation too much based on armor, only high end armor wearers will survive a throwing weapon hit.
-You do not sacrifice a good perk to get throwing weapons, most of the time what you sacrifice is "short spear" or some other kind of bad spear. One example of a class in which the throwing aspect is way balanced is Clan Warrior, in order to acquire the throwing spear, you give up having a shield, this is a big deal compared to giving up on a spear.

Suggestion :
-Give access to throwing weapons only to the following classes : peasant classes, 2h users. Remove all access to throwing weapons to big ass plate wearers and let the agile 2h classes be the ones specialized in throwing stuff. This reduces the amount of **** being thrown in games + it gives a small tap in the back to the 2h classes for skirmish.

 

[Alyss]

throwing weapon is the main weapon for infantry atm. That shouldn't be a thing, but on the other hand, it's the only way to deal with cavs atm.

 

[Yukmouth++]

throwing weapon is the main weapon for infantry atm. That shouldn't be a thing, but on the other hand, it's the only way to deal with cavs atm.

I think pikes are legit against cavs, and way less obnoxious for ennemy infantry. Classes like Savage with a pike can really protect fellow allies against cav, but wont do so because guess what, they are receiving 3 throwing weapons every second for 15 secs.

 

[rektasaurus]

It’s not hard at all to dodge arrows or missiles if you can keep track of where they are. The only time it becomes an issue is up close, near impossible to dodge. One answer is waiting for the throw, then juking, and then picking up the jav or axe and feeding it back. Another answer is a shield. But yeah ranged is a little op in this meta. I would love to be able to knock a missile away with a melee weapon. Baseball anyone?

 

[Yukmouth++]

It’s not hard at all to dodge arrows or missiles if you can keep track of where they are. The only time it becomes an issue is up close, near impossible to dodge. One answer is waiting for the throw, then juking, and then picking up the jav or axe and feeding it back. Another answer is a shield. But yeah ranged is a little op in this meta. I would love to be able to knock a missile away with a melee weapon. Baseball anyone?

So easy that everyone dies from them all the times during games. Just pay attention at the kills around you man, SO many of them are done by projectiles. +shields don't protect you at all from them. Real talk, i did 47 dmg to a tribal warrior's foot with a arbelist, i had to go wash my eyes after seeing this, i felt broken.

Anybody can get rekt by projectiles, as good as the player be, i was in a clan battle against VK, Namarin (or whatever his name) which is quite possibly the heaviest player i've ever seen so far. Well guess what, he dies to bolts and throwing ****s as much as the next person.

 

[Brandis.]

The meta is 4 shock 2 cav with slight variants.

What you're describing is extremely inaccurate.

 

[Yukmouth++]

The meta is 4 shock 2 cav with slight variants.

What you're describing is extremely inaccurate.

And what do you say the 4 shock are picking as a secondary perk, please tell me good sir, would it be throwing axe ? Javs ? Or the almighty long sword ? oh and that 4-2 meta clearly applies to every faction. No way Aserai, Battania and Khuzait play any other meta but 4 shock and 2 cavs.

 

[Dextrus]

Throwing weapons rarely kill people. Usually they hurt people but they are finished off in melee. 2 cav, 4 inf or 2 cav, 3 inf, 1 archer are the meta.

 

[rektasaurus]

Maybe it’s different in my games because I primary ranged. But I know, I get owned by missiles pretty often. And it’s actually amazing to me how few people try to juke me when they’re pushing and I’m aiming for their feet. It’d be so much harder if the zigzagged more.

@Dextrus thrown weapons are one of the few than can 1 shot you. It’s actually an issue. Kind of upsetting that a sword to the face can’t 1 shot but a fishing harpoon can. Thrown weapons should do like 80 dmg absolute max on foot but 1 shotting approaching cav should still be possible.

The most optimal setup with the current game would probably be 4 archers hidden away shooting at the same target and 2 cav capping points and fixing targets. How would one answer that? Melee is for sure gimped

 

[Zoonanay]

The meta is 4 shock 2 cav with slight variants.

What you're describing is extremely inaccurate.

Maybe a few weeks ago, but clans are already catching onto the effectiveness of archers and cavalry, even over their years of warband familiarity with infantry-dominant compositions.

The only reason to play infantry is larger shield, throwing weapons and touch more armour, or in the case of Aserai's Skrimisher because 300 gold triple spawn is broken strong.

Area control, damage, forcing errors or capitalising on unforced errors is almost always better accomplished by a archer/cav equivalent to infantry. And the only reason there's an "almost" there is due to throwing weapons ridiculous damage stats, especially when kick throw is a pretty easy manouever if you're familiar wiht kick slash.

 

[Yukmouth++]

Maybe a few weeks ago, but clans are already catching onto the effectiveness of archers and cavalry, even over their years of warband familiarity with infantry-dominant compositions.

The only reason to play infantry is larger shield, throwing weapons and touch more armour, or in the case of Aserai's Skrimisher because 300 gold triple spawn is broken strong.

Area control, damage, forcing errors or capitalising on unforced errors is almost always better accomplished by a archer/cav equivalent to infantry. And the only reason there's an "almost" there is due to throwing weapons ridiculous damage stats, especially when kick throw is a pretty easy manouever if you're familiar wiht kick slash.

Skirmishers a better choice of infantry over Tribal Warrior ? Damn sir, how comes ? What would be the reason why skirmishers are VASTLY superior to a class while costing 20 less moral. Would it be... no... throwing weapons ?

Not trolling you btw, laughing at the nonsense of it.

 

[rektasaurus]

Skirmishers a better choice of infantry over Tribal Warrior ? Damn sir, how comes ? What would be the reason why skirmishers are VASTLY superior to a class while costing 20 less moral. Would it be... no... throwing weapons ?

Not trolling you btw, laughing at the nonsense of it.

6 Javs is really a lot. It’s never ending. I think they look ugly too. Breaks my immersion lol

 

[Yukmouth++]

I think they look ugly too. Breaks my immersion lol

would you say they'd look better with 6 super overpowered javelins in their backs ?

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

If I stop playing it will be because of Aserai skirmisher spam. Its miserable. I would rather not play at all than be forced to play against it. The combination of kicks being instant and unblockable, along with the absurdity of the amount you can spam the javelins, makes Bannerlord no longer a skill based game. Whether or not you are good at Aserai is a question of how morally garbage you are and how little you care about the other players having any fun. A faction meta should never boil down to "HOLD S AND MASH E AS OFTEN AS YOUR OBESE FINGERS ALLOW" yet here we are. It significantly subtracts from any possible enjoyment of an already tough experience.

Im willing to work with the devs and deal with the bad to help them obtain the good, but if jav and kick mechanics are not revisited im calling it quits.

I can deal with OP cav. I can deal with block delay. I can deal with skirmish snowballing, I can deal with jank looting mechanics. I absolutely will not deal with the kick jav meta any longer. Its where I draw the line.

 

[rektasaurus]

would you say they'd look better with 6 super overpowered javelins in their backs ?

Didn’t catch my edit in time lol. I think they look worse! Wish I could just step on their robes and make em trip

If I stop playing it will be because of Aserai skirmisher spam. Its miserable. I would rather not play at all than be forced to play against it. The combination of kicks being instant and unblockable, along with the absurdity of the amount you can spam the javelins, makes Bannerlord no longer a skill based game. Whether or not you are good at Aserai is a question of how morally garbage you are and how little you care about the other players having any fun. A faction meta should never boil down to "HOLD S AND MASH E AS OFTEN AS YOUR OBESE FINGERS ALLOW" yet here we are. It significantly subtracts from any possible enjoyment of an already tough experience.

Im willing to work with the devs and deal with the bad to help them obtain the good, but if jav and kick mechanics are not revisited im calling it quits.

Yep, meanwhile sturgian warrior gets..... a spear

 

[Aprikosenmann]

75% of the deaths are caused by a projectile of some sort

You must be trolling? Maybe 30% at max.

Classes like Savage with a pike can really protect fellow allies against cav

Just no. Pike is ****.

 

[Yukmouth++]

You must be trolling? Maybe 30% at max.

Just no. Pike is ****.

So its way better to pick throwing weapons u'd say ? What could possibly justifiy the fact that throwing weapons is ALWAYS the absolute monster number 1 better choice for a second perk, i wonder.

 

[rektasaurus]

So its way better to pick throwing weapons u'd say ? What could possibly justifiy the fact that throwing weapons is ALWAYS the absolute monster number 1 better choice for a second perk, i wonder.

I mean I think archer is a better pick but yeah. Fire rate and range is way higher. And with a shield? Forget about it

 

[Aprikosenmann]

I have to perfect argument against throwing weapons and archers.

Spoiler

The game is called Mount and Blade

 

[EbdanianAdmiral]

You must be trolling? Maybe 30% at max.

Just no. Pike is ****.

I can absolutely say you have no idea what you are talking about with 100% certainty. Against aserai and Battania over 75% of deaths are to projectiles. Without question. There is no debate here

The meta is 4 shock 2 cav with slight variants.

What you're describing is extremely inaccurate.

Ive played in every tournament up to this point and not seen this combination used a SINGLE time. In fact ive never seen twohanders at all. Ive also not seen you on any team roster, so I have no idea where you are getting your statement from. It sure as hell isnt NA competitive at any level.

And if you mean shock inf as in heavy inf instead of twohanders that still does not hold up. Nobody worth their salt is running more than 3 inf even on Sturgia. Unknown has the best Inf squad ever assembled so far and they *might?* have run 4 a single round in our 6-5 match.