Why Sturgia often grows weak, Khuzait often grows strong

[Sarissofoi]

Problem is current economical and recruitment model is not good.
Lords should keep only small retinue of professional soldiers at all times(especially peace) then boost their numbers in the times of war by mass conscripting troops.
But with how current auto-resolve work its impossible for them to keep bandits down with small elite force in times of peace and with current recruitment system its impossible to mass recruit medium tiers(or at last T2&T3) in the time of war. Not even mention that bandits and looters just spawn because and they are important part of game economy and army leveling.
The more I look at issues the more clear it is that whole system if flawed and nothing that can be easily changed or fixed by some small balancing.

 

[Pejot]

Problem is current economical and recruitment model is not good.
Lords should keep only small retinue of professional soldiers at all times(especially peace) then boost their numbers in the times of war by mass conscripting troops.
But with how current auto-resolve work its impossible for them to keep bandits down with small elite force in times of peace and with current recruitment system its impossible to mass recruit medium tiers(or at last T2&T3) in the time of war. Not even mention that bandits and looters just spawn because and they are important part of game economy and army leveling.
The more I look at issues the more clear it is that whole system if flawed and nothing that can be easily changed or fixed by some small balancing.

I can agree that no control over bandit population is troublesome and make fighting them at some point in the game pointless. You can loose men but You'll gain nothing from killing them.

 

[Dabos37]

Well bandits and looters are one of the worst income source in my opinion at every stage of the game, but agree with they are usually necessary for leveling units. According to devs, we probably will have something similar than AI has for leveling units, so the bandits looters span could get reduced.

On the other hand, emulating medieval times at 100% would be probably really hard to do and the current system is not bad IMO, just need to be tweaked.

 

[Pejot]

Well bandits and looters are one of the worst income source in my opinion at every stage of the game, but agree with they are usually necessary for leveling units. According to devs, we probably will have something similar than AI has for leveling units, so the bandits looters span could get reduced.

On the other hand, emulating medieval times at 100% would be probably really hard to do and the current system is not bad, just need to be tweaked.

The only thing about bandits that should change in my opinion is adding some factor thet can be influenced by player and NPC lords that controls number/time of bandit spawns. Right now for fief owner they are a problem without any solution. Killing them is pointless, destroying hideouts do nothing. There's no option to secure You lands. This also affects NPC lords especially the less wealthy ones like Sturgia.

 

[Dabos37]

The only thing about bandits that should change in my opinion is adding some factor thet can be influenced by player and NPC lords that controls number/time of bandit spawns. Right now for fief owner they are a problem without any solution. Killing them is pointless, destroying hideouts do nothing. There's no option to secure You lands. This also affects NPC lords especially the less wealthy ones like Sturgia.

Agreed. Not completely sure how they work now. But if a new party/hideout respawn at the same moment you defeat It, I personally dislike this system.

I am curious if they are fulfulling a necessary role to the campaign map balancing, if not, I think there are too much of them and the current number is excesive. I like the idea about bandits/looters existance but I do not like to see tons of them everywhere without anything you can do about It.

 

[mexxico]

The only thing about bandits that should change in my opinion is adding some factor thet can be influenced by player and NPC lords that controls number/time of bandit spawns. Right now for fief owner they are a problem without any solution. Killing them is pointless, destroying hideouts do nothing. There's no option to secure You lands. This also affects NPC lords especially the less wealthy ones like Sturgia.

Why destroying them is pointless? After you destroy a hideout there is no mechanism spawning new one right after. So you can clear hideouts in your lands by destroying them one by one. I am asking to learn if there is any problem in this system.

 

[Pejot]

Why destroying them is pointless? After you destroy a hideout there is no mechanism spawning new one right after. So you can clear hideouts in your lands by destroying them one by one. I am asking to learn if there is any problem in this system.

I never noticed bandit parties spawn rate drop after destroying the hideout. That's why i think it's pointless at least If you're doing it to secure Your estate from bandits attacking caravans and villagers. If there is a connection between hideout and number of spawns it's not visible.
There are also a few points on the map with multiple (4-5) hideouts spawning near each other and when You clear first and go to another it can respawn in the meantime. The one such spot i can point You to is above Galend. 2 sea riders hideouts with always at least 40-50 bandits inside, 1 mountain hideout and one forest bandits.

Killing bandit parties is also never ending work cause You're never able to lower thei number to make it matter.

Edit:
One more thing I can add is that quite often bandits get stuck inside hideout and never leave. It leads to situation where there are 6 parties inside. I watched such hideouts waiting in a distance that allowed me to see who's inside for 60 days and the parties never go out.

 

[Dabos37]

Yep, I hace also noticed issues in the map part above Galend. Sometimes I attack and destroy a hideout and in the moment I go out (after loot and prisioners part), I get a message saying "Hideout has been spotted". Going to try yo provide a savegame with this.

On the other hand, I have seen this just above Galend.

 

[durbal]

Why destroying them is pointless? After you destroy a hideout there is no mechanism spawning new one right after. So you can clear hideouts in your lands by destroying them one by one. I am asking to learn if there is any problem in this system.

They respawn on a weekly tick.

 

[Dodgy]

Yup, they might spawn at a different location, but they do respawn.

And I would be fine with it, if it took longer. But right now it feels like the time and effort you put into killing their parties and destroyin the hideouts is not worth it, and I get the feeling that new parties respawn no matter if there is a hideout or not.

It would also be appreciated if their parties could leave their hideout more often, as what happens most of the times, is having loads of parties roaming about, and 4 or 5 stacks of 12/20 bandits inside a hideout... the more parties you chase and kill, the more of them respawn... It needs to be toned down to be honest.

 

[pyerr]

They're annoying as hell, but absolutely necessary in those numbers because they provide loot for AI lords, not only for our character. With smaller numbers of them all AI lords with small armies and minor characters would bankrupt much easier.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

Why destroying them is pointless? After you destroy a hideout there is no mechanism spawning new one right after. So you can clear hideouts in your lands by destroying them one by one. I am asking to learn if there is any problem in this system.

I think the hideouts are fine, but I do think we need some way to protect our homelands from looters as it doesnt feel like destroying the hideouts gives your villagers any respite. Without the ability to order a companion party to stay in a specific area to patrol to keep my villagers safe, I either have to choose to stay myself and not go off to wars or let me villagers get constantly attacked by bandits. I think looter gameplay is fun in early game but honestly just becomes an annoyance in late game and forces me to choose between doing what i want (participating in wars) or protecting my homeland from bandits. I really think settlement owners should be able to hire a local patrol (different pricing options for better troops) so that when its late game I only have to worry about killing the hideouts and I have a optional solution to spend money to not chase bandits with my 200 troop army.

Patrols could be max size of 40 so that they can't fight looters forever and will need to be repurchased at some point to continue the money sink. Also if at war with another kingdom, a way to impact the economy without directly attacking the settlement or village would be to kill their patrol so they are harassed more by bandits and money needs to be spent to rehire. These patrols would give small parties in the opposing faction to have something to battle and allow some small party fights finally (can't really be impactful as a solo party in war with anything less than 60 troops, this would let 40 troops be useful, mercenary gameplay can be more than just joining an army now).

 

[Sarissofoi]

They're annoying as hell, but absolutely necessary in those numbers because they provide loot for AI lords, not only for our character. With smaller numbers of them all AI lords with small armies and minor characters would bankrupt much easier.

>>absolutely necessary in those numbers because they provide loot for AI lords
yeah that is exactly a problem

 

[durbal]

>>absolutely necessary in those numbers because they provide loot for AI lords
yeah that is exactly a problem

The solution is to remove or severely, drastically reduce gold from plunder and equipment and make it so that nobody is reliant on it and it doesn't blow up the economy like it currently does. Let's see if TW ever understand how problematic their equipment prices and loot/plunder from battle are.

 

[pyerr]

Well I sound like broken record, but first problem is that I as player and AI lord have completely different rules and we play on the same map.
So they want to nerf players economy/income to make game more challenging but at the same time they want to boost AI lords income (with no workshops and caravans only fiefs taxes), and environment is the same. It's nightmare to balance.
Next problem will be when famous "perk team" finish their job, with all perks working again and provide us more boost, player economy will be OP and they will need to rebalance again.

 

[Pejot]

>>absolutely necessary in those numbers because they provide loot for AI lords
yeah that is exactly a problem

Judging by my companions parties in peacetime the loot and prisoners gained from bandits are not eough even to slightly reduce thei party costs.
In my playthrough watched 4 companions parties in time of peace and war. Average excees gold in peacetime (collected form fighting bandits) was 80. This is 20% of what they looted so it means they get 400 gold average from bandit parties. However the gold they get is not daily and from my observations it's around 400 gold from loot every 4-5 days. This is not sufficient to close the gap between party wages and fief income.So high number of bandits doesn't help that much while they reduce fief income and less number could be rebalanced by higher fief income.

 

[kweassa]

Fief income hardly a problem.

Considering the fact that usually player parties consist of "abnormal" amount of high-tier troops, it usually costs around at the least 3 times higher than the average lord, but more realistically 4~5 times higher than the average lord's party by the time the player becomes King/Queen and begin fielding 300+ party packed with over 50~60% 4-5-6 tiers.

For most lords usually ranging in around 150 troops of more higher ratio of 1-2-3 tiers, a single castle and accompanying villages is usually enough. The clans that have 3~5 member parties, usually take a town + castle or so.

If you're fielding 4 companion parties (= clan tier 5) then by that time you should have either enough fiefs to support those armies, or not have so much parties at all.

Take a keen look at my economic stats below:

Party wages about -3.2k with an army of 300+ men consisting of around 70% 4-5-6 tier troops, with a troop ratio of inf/rng/cav = 4/3/3. With the wages of 3 clan parties combined, that's a little lower than -4k per day.

In comparison, with a stable income of +16k per day, the two caravans and five workshops combined are less than half of the income, which means a sum of more than +8k is from taxes on fiefs. This income is from 2 towns and 6 castles.

As you can see, a castle provides about +300. Villages are anywhere between +250 to over +700 in accordance to property. Taking the middle point of maybe around +400 taxes average for a village, a castle with 2 villages will provide around +1.1k per day -- which is certainly enough to pay for a small clan with maybe 2 members that have parties of average AI caliber.


It's simply a matter of efficient management and basic book keeping.

 

[kweassa]

(ps) in case of the AI, it's the "stuffing with garrison troops" that's usually the problem with their financial situation, which is why the devs are already working on a solution to have AI lords reduce garrison troops in accordance to their money situation.

 

[Kulgrinda Košmarjus]

Why destroying them is pointless? After you destroy a hideout there is no mechanism spawning new one right after. So you can clear hideouts in your lands by destroying them one by one. I am asking to learn if there is any problem in this system.

What is the logic behind ambushing a hideout with 40 forest/steppe bandits with just 6(?) soldiers out of my elite 150 troops to see them dead once we inevitably fail? Why can't I call reinforcements to match/overwhelm the bandits, surround them and hunt them down?

 

[Honved]

The problem I see with looters and other bandit parties is that they automatically respawn when destroyed. You can never reduce their total numbers, because they just reappear elsewhere if/when destroyed. Hideouts have the same issue: destroy them and they simply reappear. There is no "win", no "break even", just a never-ending stream of expendable loot-bags.

One solution would be to reduce the spawn rate, and limit it to only one respawn every X number of days (not sure what X would need to be). If you take out one bandit party, no big effect, it just reappears a few days later. Take out 3 or 4, however, and the FIRST won't reappear for another X days, the second until another X days after it, and the third yet another X days later. Meanwhile, that's a few less bandit parties on the map to harass your peasants. One could "clear" an area and keep it relatively bandit-free (not totally, but only one new party every so often), or leave an area undefended and see the bandit population grow back to its upper limit again. Hideouts should have a much longer respawn time, and increase the respawn time of their associated bandit type, so taking out a hideout should significantly reduce bandit respawns throughout the area for at least a couple of months, giving you a real reason to eliminate them. There could also be a modifier to respawn rates by building certain buildings.

That still gives the Lords some occasional experience during times of peace, and makes it important for lords to patrol their own territory (or else hire or spin off patrol groups), otherwise the bandits start becoming a problem. Riding off to do a mission or buy/sell goods won't leave your peasants at the mercy of a dozen bandit groups practically from the moment you leave, but you would want to get back ASAP to prevent those bandits from making any resurgence.