dismounted cav isnt infantry they can be easily kited. They barely okayish to fight infantry, they cant spam with their long cav weapons so gl killing anything with them. If they want to balance cav they need to reduce heavy horse armor and buff the horse hp instead, it will reduce glances on them.
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Horses with armor should be slower, couches should have a timer and a cooldown, and spears should stop cavalry at every front attack.
+1 and spear crush throughs should be removed
but do you have a minimum understanding of the text or not?
I just wrote to you that I HAVE NO INTEREST IN HISTORICAL REALISTICITY and you answer me that I want a realistic game?
I don't even play mordhau.
Watching two videos I saw that it is more or less chivalry, two games that have nothing realistic.
Neither in terms of historical accuracy (which I don't care).
Neither in terms of realistic gameplay (i.e. that component of the association of keys and mechanics that reproduce the directionality in the attack and defense system).
Kingdom come deliverance is another example where historical accuracy undermines gameplay realism.
Kingdom come is the right example to make you understand the difference between the two types of realism:
historical realism (linked to historical accuracy) is present.
gameplay realism is totally absent.
mount and blade:
historical realism (I don't care about this aspect) in part there is
gameplay realism: dominates and I'm happy, but it's not balanced.
The balances I suggested above have nothing to do with historical realism, but with gameplay.
And it is not balanced because some mechanics, which actually exist, are inserted, while others, which also exist, are not.
And guess what: the mechanical ones were invented to contrast others.
Instead you want to insert arbitrary cooldowns.
of course, simplify the system, but also remove the depth to it.
Bannerlord must be more than warband, not warband.
it is you who should not listen, since the only thing you do is not understand the text, suggest things already seen that do not improve anything and hope that others will not be listened to based on your wrong interpretations of other people's sentences.
If you don't understand this, I close the discussion and say goodbye.
Glad your 300 games experience made you a gameplay expert who knows everything. Just telling you that adding bad features won't fix other bad features. There is no need for all those mechanics you suggested it just makes the game even more boring. Simple tweaks such as couch timer and cooldown are enough to nerf cav.
This.
Or that you're just bad at the game.
Tork lol, I literally outscored you on one of two games I've had with you since the Early Access started while we were both playing the same class(Druzhinik with couch lance I think) and the other game was a stomp because the enemy went 6 knights against us (me and some of the CoR lads) playing infantry because we wanted to have some fun. Of course you didn't stay to see the end of that one because you ragequitted or something.
Literally every time I've struggled in a match to carry my useless team with archer or inf I switch to couch lance heavy cav and start racking up kills on distracted opponents.
Oh and of ****ing course it's easy to avoid a couch lance if you know it's coming to you, I don't want to avoid it, I want to stop the **** with my spear and kill him because he'll just come back again if I don't. And the 2nd time I'll no doubt have to watch out for an archer or another infantry player, the difference between them and the couch lance is I can at least take an arrow or sword to the back and live, a couch lance is a guaranteed one shot.
Cavalry serves it's purpose of being the most mobile class in the game for capping flags and flanking quickly, it doesn't need to be so braindead to use though.
Literally every time I've struggled in a match to carry my useless team with archer or inf I switch to couch lance heavy cav and start racking up kills on distracted opponents.
Oh and of ****ing course it's easy to avoid a couch lance if you know it's coming to you, I don't want to avoid it, I want to stop the **** with my spear and kill him because he'll just come back again if I don't. And the 2nd time I'll no doubt have to watch out for an archer or another infantry player, the difference between them and the couch lance is I can at least take an arrow or sword to the back and live, a couch lance is a guaranteed one shot.
Cavalry serves it's purpose of being the most mobile class in the game for capping flags and flanking quickly, it doesn't need to be so braindead to use though.
so you've already programmed and tested these mechanics, I suppose.
If you haven't already, it is simply your word against mine.
What should make your thesis more valid than mine?
I introduce DEGREES OF FREEDOM, or levers with which to act in the system.
In particular:
HP bar lance: maximum number of couch modes that can be used with the lance and this number depends on how much violence you put into using it.
arm fatigue bar: how many times in the unit of time you can use couch mode.
So I set a minimum and maximum in reference to the number of times that couch mode can be used over time and an absolute maximum.
They are DEGREES OF FREEDOM.
And they serve to balance a game.
You insert a trivial parameter which is nothing but a particular case of the degrees of freedom that I have proposed.
The other points are simply a balance between classes and the introduction of the spear wall, which you have to explain to me why it shouldn't be there.
I argue my thesis, instead you shoot sentences and judgments without a reasoning that is the result of your arbitrary judgment.
A systems must first be tested and then judged.
In my case the system itself is not a particular case, as it also contains your case.
Just set the HP bar to infinity, set the recharge time witha constant and call it cooldown and remove the dependence of the modification of this time on the number of uses.
I don't know everything, I simply have a broader view than yours, since I identify your case as a particular version of mine, but you can't do the opposite, that is to see the generality of my system starting from your particular case .
Adding tons of bars will only make the game more confusing, while a cool down and a timer are intuitive and they produce the same result: nerfing cavs
ye those are terrible suggestions
How do you think the spearwall will even work? Does infantry get more range on the spear then, otherwise they will just get outranged? How does the spearwall interact with melee and on foot combat? Can you move or turn when using that mode, if its **** against archers its just another useless feature. We already got alot of those. (shieldbash) So thanks for your input but its trash.
People argue that there needs to be a cooldown like in warband, which should be easy to implement. But couching is only the tip of the iceberg. The problem is the bump couch and other cav mechanics. Normal couching can be easily counterplayed and rewards sneaky gameplay. The gameplay how cav is supposed to be played, even if it is more skillfull to time ur attack.
I enter the answer in the form of a spoiler, because you should have read it on page 2.
From the questions you ask I deduce that you have not read it, so you have not followed the discussion.
When I propose mechanics, I tend to consider every single aspect, just to balance them.
The problem is that couch mode is nothing more than a "brace the spear" for cavalry, when this same move is not owned by the infantry itself.
And this is ridiculous.
Posts on these two topics have followed one another for months and still there is no decision to balance these two aspects.
couch mode enjoys too many advantages given by having a horse, vice versa the same mode for infantry would not enjoy, being static.
What should be done would be:
1) ARM FATIGUE BAR:
-The more you use the mode, the more your arm gets tired.
-The greater the impact speed, the more tired the arm.
-This bar empties slowly, and this process speeds up a little if you don't use the move for some time.
- the oscillation effect of the lance remains and the extent of the oscillation depends on how much the bar of tiredness is filled
2) DISARMING: if the arm is tired and you are using couch mode, the weapon slips from your hand, falling to the ground (it does not break).
Since it does not break, it can be collected.
The field is full of spears.
3) HP LANCE BAR
The lance has an HP bar that is reduced only if the impacts of which it is the protagonist involve a momentum greater than a given minimum value.
If the spear hits a shield violently because the speed is very high and the shield has the proper properties to resist the impact and the angle is the right one, then the spear can break.
The shield can also crack if it doesn't have enough HP.
4) LESS COUCH MODE DAMAGE,MORE IMPACT DAMAGE:
reduce the damage of the couch mode (make it to be 150% of a normal lunge, clearly at the same speed) and at the same time increase the impact damage of the charge (and a lot), but only if the speed is at 80- 90% of the maximum horse speed.
5) one thing is enough to balance point 4:
A) WALL OF SPEAR FOR INFANTRY, with 2 modes :.
LIGHT WALL (semi-static): A position that takes time to activate (1 second of activation and 1 second of deactivation) makes the formation slow in movement and rotation.
-Increases the range of the spears by correctly positioning the 3D model and extending the weapon
-the damage depends on the relative speed during the impact and on the cosine of the angle formed by the straight line joining the horse with the foot soldier and the pointing direction of the spear. FURTHERMORE there is a minimum of momentum under which no procurement is obtained damage to the enemy.
The spear is not anchored to the ground, so part of the damage is not suffered.
- the armor further reduces the damage suffered by the horses by introducing the sliding effects of the lance on the latter (depends on the armor)
-in this mode the formation is slow in movement and can rotate, but slowly.
- Infantry soldiers are subject to impact.
-when one of the spears hits an enemy, the spear wall mode for that spear is automatically deactivated
HEAVY WALL (static): the most static version of the light wall.
-The launches are anchored to the ground and the range depends on the positioning of the model (the idea is to increase this range), and for activation 2 -2.5 seconds are required, deactivation also requires 2-2.5 seconds.
-the training cannot be moved or rotated without first deactivating the mode.
-The impact damage depends on the relative speed and on the cosine of the angle formed by the straight line joining the horse with the footed infantryman and pointing direction of the spear.
- the armor further reduces the damage by introducing the various sliding effects of the lance on the armor.
-It reflects the damage of the couch mode and the value is reduced by the cosine of the angle.
- Even here the soldiers are subject to impact, but have greater inertia.
-here the mode is deactivated, by impact, only if the soldier is thrown to the ground due to the impact.
NOTE FOR BOTH MODES: given the existence of a minimum threshold below which no damage is done to the enemy, for clashes that do not involve speeds beyond a certain value, the mode is not needed (for example against an infantry that does not run or which is slow by nature)
And this is ridiculous.
Posts on these two topics have followed one another for months and still there is no decision to balance these two aspects.
couch mode enjoys too many advantages given by having a horse, vice versa the same mode for infantry would not enjoy, being static.
What should be done would be:
1) ARM FATIGUE BAR:
-The more you use the mode, the more your arm gets tired.
-The greater the impact speed, the more tired the arm.
-This bar empties slowly, and this process speeds up a little if you don't use the move for some time.
- the oscillation effect of the lance remains and the extent of the oscillation depends on how much the bar of tiredness is filled
2) DISARMING: if the arm is tired and you are using couch mode, the weapon slips from your hand, falling to the ground (it does not break).
Since it does not break, it can be collected.
The field is full of spears.
3) HP LANCE BAR
The lance has an HP bar that is reduced only if the impacts of which it is the protagonist involve a momentum greater than a given minimum value.
If the spear hits a shield violently because the speed is very high and the shield has the proper properties to resist the impact and the angle is the right one, then the spear can break.
The shield can also crack if it doesn't have enough HP.
4) LESS COUCH MODE DAMAGE,MORE IMPACT DAMAGE:
reduce the damage of the couch mode (make it to be 150% of a normal lunge, clearly at the same speed) and at the same time increase the impact damage of the charge (and a lot), but only if the speed is at 80- 90% of the maximum horse speed.
5) one thing is enough to balance point 4:
A) WALL OF SPEAR FOR INFANTRY, with 2 modes :.
LIGHT WALL (semi-static): A position that takes time to activate (1 second of activation and 1 second of deactivation) makes the formation slow in movement and rotation.
-Increases the range of the spears by correctly positioning the 3D model and extending the weapon
-the damage depends on the relative speed during the impact and on the cosine of the angle formed by the straight line joining the horse with the foot soldier and the pointing direction of the spear. FURTHERMORE there is a minimum of momentum under which no procurement is obtained damage to the enemy.
The spear is not anchored to the ground, so part of the damage is not suffered.
- the armor further reduces the damage suffered by the horses by introducing the sliding effects of the lance on the latter (depends on the armor)
-in this mode the formation is slow in movement and can rotate, but slowly.
- Infantry soldiers are subject to impact.
-when one of the spears hits an enemy, the spear wall mode for that spear is automatically deactivated
HEAVY WALL (static): the most static version of the light wall.
-The launches are anchored to the ground and the range depends on the positioning of the model (the idea is to increase this range), and for activation 2 -2.5 seconds are required, deactivation also requires 2-2.5 seconds.
-the training cannot be moved or rotated without first deactivating the mode.
-The impact damage depends on the relative speed and on the cosine of the angle formed by the straight line joining the horse with the footed infantryman and pointing direction of the spear.
- the armor further reduces the damage by introducing the various sliding effects of the lance on the armor.
-It reflects the damage of the couch mode and the value is reduced by the cosine of the angle.
- Even here the soldiers are subject to impact, but have greater inertia.
-here the mode is deactivated, by impact, only if the soldier is thrown to the ground due to the impact.
NOTE FOR BOTH MODES: given the existence of a minimum threshold below which no damage is done to the enemy, for clashes that do not involve speeds beyond a certain value, the mode is not needed (for example against an infantry that does not run or which is slow by nature)
Any excuse looks good.
the bar of the shield is not extra, but that of the spear is?
The arm fatigue bar does not necessarily have to be a visible bar, but a visual input.
In the case under examination we can make it coincide with the degree of oscillation of the lance during couch mode.
In this way the number of bars is identical to before.
Now what do you hold on to?
You dont mention where the shield is positioned. How much range the spears shoud get exactly. How fast people can turn while doing that. Will it just oneshot infantry units, that would be pretty garbage. If you can deploy it fast you can abuse it in melee, if you cant its useless against cav. (most cav players arent dumb enough to run into it)
Not too mention moving slow just sucks vs sniper archers. It wont be used so its useless.
Not too mention moving slow just sucks vs sniper archers. It wont be used so its useless.
Shield bar is necessary, but no one cares about stamina for couches and stuff. A timer and cooldown makes way more sense. There is no need to create useless difficulty by adding hidden bars when the game is already difficult for new players.
Your solution about the lance is fine but there are better ways to do it (such as cooldowns), and your shield wall suggestion would make infantry even worse. Might be of some use on captain battle, but even bots would be weaker with it...
We are two schools of thought:
you are anchored to the old, arbitrary, abused and flat systems.
I am for innovation and adding depth of gameplay, without arbitrary limitations, but depending on how much the player takes advantage of them.
After the first two games in which you send that mode and you see that your arm is swinging because you can't stand the spear and it flies or breaks you, I would say that you understand that the problem is spam.
Also, a tutorial section would be enough to explain how all the mechanics work, which should be there for a game like this.
shield wall?
I talked about the wall of spears, which is a completely different thing.
It is balanced to be good against cavalry but not against infantry.
I often play infantry in both skirmish and captain and I know that in skirmish it is quite simple to kill a horse if you are a good player.
Vice versa in captain mode, since AI does not play as the player does, you will understand that this requires a mode that makes the infantry with spears a real threat to cavalry.
However, mechanics that must be balanced, and that's what I did.
But apparently you didn't even understand that it was a wall of spears and not a wall of shields.
killing pub cavs doesn't make you a good player. I am talking about stopping good cav players: you can't with a spear. Your idea is innovative, yes, but it is far from being a good idea.
depending on how the 3d model gets in position the shield will cover some hurtxboxes and some not.
The position of the shield is frontal in the case of the light spear wall.
In the case of the heavy spear wall the weapon is anchored to the ground and held, therefore the shield will have an inclination which will reveal part of the model's hurtxbox.
You will still have coverage, but less.
In this case the hurtboxes depend on the positions for the 3d models that the developers choose to adopt.
As for the range, the considerations are the same.
Clearly, a given position will cause the hurtboxes of the model of the footed infantryman to be less reachable by the spear of a rider and vice versa the spear of the footed infantryman has a range such as to hit the enemy horse or its own rider.
But depending on the spears equipped by cavalry and infantry, various results can be obtained.
The point is that the modality must guarantee coverage together with an increase in range.
It depends on the developers.
It depends on the weight equipped.
It depends on the various balance tests.
Have you read what put you in the spoiler?
I'll rewrite it:
-the damage depends on the relative speed (to be precise from the momentum involved)
-the damage only enters beyond a minimum momentum threshold.
This implies that it would not be usable against an infantry that does not charge you frontally.
In short, if they walked, instead of running, they would not suffer damage.
there is a small cast time but you can deploy it quickly enough.
You cannot abuse it against infantry for two reasons:
1) once it hits an enemy that still goes at low speed and does not take much damage, the mode for that spear is deactivated.
2) if it hits the enemy shield it is deactivated.
3) if the enemy does not run towards you for the desire to get impaled, then he does not suffer any damage because he does not exceed the minimum threshold.
I don't understand where you want to go.
If on one side you have the cavalry that charges you and on the other the archers, only one of the two defensive choices you can make.
So your criticism doesn't make sense.
And you've already tested it, right?And after a statistical analysis you came to that conclusion,right?