MP Couched lance - Low risk, high reward

[darksoulshin]

I am talking about stopping good cav players: you can't with a spear

ohohoh eh no.
at the beginning I was also struggling, but after a few games I did nothing but turn with a spear and a shield to look for knights to bring them back down to earth.
But as I said: skirmish is one thing, captain mode is another.
In captain mode you don't have to stop just 1 horse, 7-10 arrive and you can't stop them all.
And if your soldiers don't know how to stop them, talking about strategy and tactics makes no sense.

but it is far from being a good idea.

These sentences are to be expressed only after testing, collecting data, making a statistical analysis and from this having concluded that the idea was not a good one.
Did you happen to see me writing that my idea is good?
no.
In fact I write: LET'S TEST.

 

[darksoulshin]

A wall of spears is useless without shields , which incidentally makes it a shield wall

There are units with spear, two-handed and without shield ....
the menavlion of the empire for example.

 

[Alyss]

ohohoh eh no.
at the beginning I was also struggling, but after a few games I did nothing but turn with a spear and a shield to look for knights to bring them back down to earth.
But as I said: skirmish is one thing, captain mode is another.
In captain mode you don't have to stop just 1 horse, 7-10 arrive and you can't stop them all.
And if your soldiers don't know how to stop them, talking about strategy and tactics makes no sense.

These sentences are to be expressed only after testing, collecting data, making a statistical analysis and from this having concluded that the idea was not a good one.
Did you happen to see me writing that my idea is good?
no.
In fact I write: LET'S TEST.

Ofc i have no problem with bot cavs, I am talking about fighting real players who can actually play. There is no time to test your idea because as I said, there are easier and better ways to nerf cavs. If you want stamina just go on mordhau.

 

[RCC_God]

We are two schools of thought:
you are anchored to the old, arbitrary, abused and flat systems.
I am for innovation and adding depth of gameplay, without arbitrary limitations, but depending on how much the player takes advantage of them.

After the first two games in which you send that mode and you see that your arm is swinging because you can't stand the spear and it flies or breaks you, I would say that you understand that the problem is spam.
Also, a tutorial section would be enough to explain how all the mechanics work, which should be there for a game like this.

shield wall?
I talked about the wall of spears, which is a completely different thing.
It is balanced to be good against cavalry but not against infantry.
I often play infantry in both skirmish and captain and I know that in skirmish it is quite simple to kill a horse if you are a good player.
Vice versa in captain mode, since AI does not play as the player does, you will understand that this requires a mode that makes the infantry with spears a real threat to cavalry.
However, mechanics that must be balanced, and that's what I did.
But apparently you didn't even understand that it was a wall of spears and not a wall of shields.

Have you read anything good players are saying? Almost everyone at the moment is annoyed that spears half the time glance off the horse/don’t stop it, unlike warband where spears would stop a horse every time

 

[Brandis.]

I'd say the main problem with couching is the reach. It should trade damage for reach, but currently does 300-600% standard damage with the 'minor' penalty of 70-80% of normal thrust reach. Shortening the hitbox would solve the relative power of couch vs infantry spear and couch vs cav spear/lance.

 

[Welcome_To_Hell]

I think its fine, the solution is much simple:

Give lances health like shields. After X amount of damage delivered it breaks.

Lets say lance has 300 hitpoints. It could be -> 3 naked players, A horse, a shield or two. Then boom its gone, forced to switch to sword / secondary

 

[부부를 넘어서 가자]

can just hope that TW doesn't listen to those people...

 

[darksoulshin]

Have you read anything good players are saying? Almost everyone at the moment is annoyed that spears half the time glance off the horse/don’t stop it, unlike warband where spears would stop a horse every time

and you read the whole discussion?
Start from page 2, from my first comment.
It all starts from there.
I speak of balancing without giving up the depth and immersiveness of the game.
So I eliminate the problems you brought to attention.
Someone else suggests simply adding a cooldown (which is fine as a mechanic is clear).
I ask the same question to you: did you read my first comment on page 2?

 

[Mabons]

and you read the whole discussion?
Start from page 2, from my first comment.
It all starts from there.
I speak of balancing without giving up the depth and immersiveness of the game.
So I eliminate the problems you brought to attention.
Someone else suggests simply adding a cooldown (which is fine as a mechanic is clear).
I ask the same question to you: did you read my first comment on page 2?

No. Quite simply you suggest overcooked and overconvulted ideas that take days to read(nevermind implement and test) because you are incapable of a short and easy answer to a problem. I cannot read the ramblings of a madman.

We have simple solutions here in the thread, that worked in Warband, thus these ideas are already tested and we know they will at least somewhat work.

 

[darksoulshin]

No. Quite simply you suggest overcooked and overconvulted ideas that take days to read(nevermind implement and test) because you are incapable of a short and easy answer to a problem. I cannot read the ramblings of a madman.

Without offense, but if you can't read 20 lines and understand its meaning, the problem is not mine.
Thinking about the solutions takes days, reading them for about ten minutes and thinking about another 10 would be courteous as well as convenient, so that you don't have to think about days in the future.
But obviously you don't want to think about it days, because you don't want to try to find the best solution with the resources you have.
You don't care to improve the game.
You are interested in solving a problem locally with the less efficient solution that apparently works, without having an overview of the game.

If the topic is too complicated, if not the topic, you don't even need to write, like most users, who write 2-3 lines just to write them, not giving any useful solution to solve the problem.
You could have replied on the merits of that comment and instead, instead of not doing it, you prefer to discredit the author.

Think a little if you had to study from some book, maybe physics or mathematical analysis.
Who knows if you've ever opened a book ...
From what you write it seems that on the first page your eyes are closed for sleep.

We have simple solutions here in the thread, that worked in Warband, thus these ideas are already tested and we know they will at least somewhat work.

I didn't say that a simple cooldown would not be a solution.
It would be the solution that this game does not deserve.
It would be a hasty solution, devoid of depth and stupidly anti-immersive.

If you want a bad game and a bad balance, you are on the right track.

 

[Alyss]

Without offense, but if you can't read 20 lines and understand its meaning, the problem is not mine.
Thinking about the solutions takes days, reading them for about ten minutes and thinking about another 10 would be courteous as well as convenient, so that you don't have to think about days in the future.
But obviously you don't want to think about it days, because you don't want to try to find the best solution with the resources you have.
You don't care to improve the game.
You are interested in solving a problem locally with the less efficient solution that apparently works, without having an overview of the game.

If the topic is too complicated, if not the topic, you don't even need to write, like most users, who write 2-3 lines just to write them, not giving any useful solution to solve the problem.
You could have replied on the merits of that comment and instead, instead of not doing it, you prefer to discredit the author.

Think a little if you had to study from some book, maybe physics or mathematical analysis.
Who knows if you've ever opened a book ...
From what you write it seems that on the first page your eyes are closed for sleep.

I didn't say that a simple cooldown would not be a solution.
It would be the solution that this game does not deserve.
It would be a hasty solution, devoid of depth and stupidly anti-immersive.

If you want a bad game and a bad balance, you are on the right track.

The game is already bad and has a **** balance. Adding a stupid stamina system will only make it worse. Cooldown and timer are better, that's it. It worked for 10 years on warband.

 

[Rangah]

you suggest overcooked and overconvulted ideas

This, I appreciate your effort of trying to come up with detailed ideas, but really, there was a simple, intuitive solution that worked in Warband and hasn't even been tried here. Before trying to add stamina/lance breaking and whatnot, why not try the simple method that has been proven to work? This game needs less arbitrary MMO mechanics, but rather improved fundamentals.

 

[darksoulshin]

The game is already bad and has a **** balance. Adding a stupid stamina system will only make it worse. Cooldown and timer are better, that's it. It worked for 10 years on warband.

If you don't do a statistical analysis your words are worth zero.
And honestly I'm tired of answering those who can't argue.
Judgments are made after testing the mechanics, not before.
Otherwise it is prejudice.

 

[Alyss]

If you don't do a statistical analysis your words are worth zero.
And honestly I'm tired of answering those who can't argue.
Judgments are made after testing the mechanics, not before.
Otherwise it is prejudice.

But there is no point in testing those mechanics when we already know of working mechanics.

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

Kills shields and players often in one hit.

That is not true, that allmost never happens.

Way too easy. This isn't skillful or fun in any way.

I don't think its that easy at all, the tip of the lance wiggles around and you have to land a very precise hit, that mostly just works on Archers while they stand still to aim or beginners. A player can easily hear the horse coming and prepare to literally just step aside or thrust with his spear, which immediately stops the horse and that makes you to an easy target.

Drastically reduce the turn rate for cavarly while couching, forcing them to go in a (mostly) straight line. Right now I'm able to go around corners and easily hit people before they're able to react.

It is already "very" drastically reduced! You cant go around corners with that, you have to slow down and that ends the lance couching.

3. Increase the speed needed to couch.

It is allmost full speed already, if it would be increased even more, you could not get enough speed for couching on any skirmish map.

Reducing horses HP would lead to other imbalances, the only thing I would agree with, is that couching needs a longer cooldown.

 

[darksoulshin]

But there is no point in testing those mechanics when we already know of working mechanics

yes, why evolve ..
it is convenient to stay at the stone age.
less effort, you never tire of thinking.

 

[Alyss]

yes, why evolve ..
it is convenient to stay at the stone age.
less effort, you never tire of thinking.

it would be more of a regression in your case tho. warband was the golden age, bannerlord is the stone age.

 

[Biyonik]

That is not true, that allmost never happens.



I don't think its that easy at all, the tip of the lance wiggles around and you have to land a very precise hit, that mostly just works on Archers while they stand still to aim or beginners. A player can easily hear the horse coming and prepare to literally just step aside or thrust with his spear, which immediately stops the horse and that makes you to an easy target.



It is already "very" drastically reduced! You cant go around corners with that, you have to slow down and that ends the lance couching.



It is allmost full speed already, if it would be increased even more, you could not get enough speed for couching on any skirmish map.

Reducing horses HP would lead to other imbalances, the only thing I would agree with, is that couching needs a longer cooldown.

You must be high or something , couches definetely kill everybody in 1 hit if you dont have a bad speed bonus and usually breaks shields too. Also as a cav player myself I couched countless times because even tho somebody hit my horse with a spear my horse just didnt stop because rearing horses are broken and you can slow down with a couched lance to turn corners while still retaining the couched status , you really need to come close to stopping for the animation to cancel

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

You must be high or something , couches definetely kill everybody in 1 hit if you dont have a bad speed bonus and usually breaks shields too. Also as a cav player myself I couched countless times because even tho somebody hit my horse with a spear my horse just didnt stop because rearing horses are broken and you can slow down with a couched lance to turn corners while still retaining the couched status , you really need to come close to stopping for the animation to cancel

Couched lances kill players with one hit and destroys shields with one hit, but allmost never at the same time. Sometimes the lance hit is broken, thats true, but you cant count on it not working, it works most of the time. When already couching the lance you can slow down a bit, but that drastically reduces the demage bonus and its still not easy to turn corners, especially without hitting anything else, which stops the couching.

 

[darksoulshin]

it would be more of a regression in your case tho. warband was the golden age, bannerlord is the stone age.

if this is not prejudice ...