Why Sturgia often grows weak, Khuzait often grows strong

Users who are viewing this thread

kweassa

Sergeant at Arms
Contrary to popular belief, it's got nothing to do with the unit roster, nor has anything to do with certain units being OP or underwhelming. The results of individual battles in one or two wars hardly makes a difference in the larger scale. Doesn't matter if its Khuzaits or Sturgians or whatever -- caught up in a war with multiple enemies without enough armies fielded to cover every attack, and they will suffer.

The problem is the geography of Calradia and general situation each kingdoms are in.

STRAT-Calradia.png


The circled areas in the map, are the initials stages of conflict where it is most frequently contested between warring kingdoms.

If you just take a glance at the map, the Sturgians and Khuzaits seem to be in a similar state -- both are on the edges of the terrain, seemingly adjacent to multiple enemies. However, if you take into consideration the location of major cities, average distances between such cities, and the initial condition each of those states are in, the situation is very different.


Sturgia
Sturgia is located on the northern end of the map. It is a thin, elongated strip of land that runs west to east, and is within striking distance of 5 kingdoms out of other 7. We know for a fact, that the kingdoms are much more likely to declare war on its closest rivals. You rarely -- if ever -- see wars happening between Aserai-Sturgia, or Vlandia-Khuzait, in the initial phases of the game. The AI kingdoms will risk long distance campaigns to take settlements that's deep in enemy territory, yes, but that enemy is itself, most likely to be an adjacent entity.

In that sense, from the start, out of the two "access points" the Sturgians have toward the south, the western point is adjacent to Vlandia, Battania and the Northern Empire at the same time, with the Southern Empire also dangerously close. If we assume war declarations to be totally random, even through pure chance the Sturgians are the most likely candidate to be a target due to this western access point.

What about the eastern point? The eastern point is directly adjacent to the Khuzaits and the Northern Empire. If the Sturgians decide to expand from this direction, they are very likely going to war against Khuzaits -- and as a primarily infantry-based faction, the Khuzaits are the worst enemies to go to war with.

From the start, the shape of the land itself is actually a problem as well. Suppose the Sturgians find a great opportunity to advance southward in one of these two access points. Logistically speaking, Sturgia from west end to east end, is almost twice as longer than the Northern Empire, and the east-west span actually matches that of Aserai.

When Sturgia is starts a way from any of the two access points, or receives an invasion, a lord that is based in towns like Varcheg will take almost a week to travel to Tyal, and vice versa. Select a point in the middle of each kingdom, and measure the distance an army has to cover to reach any of its borders, and you will see that on average, Sturgian forces need to travel around three times longer distance to get to the borders. This logistical problem is further hampered by the mountain ranges that often hamper direct travel, and forces you to go around. This logistical problem also directly affects the rate at which the Sturgian lords replenish recruits due to the distance problems.

With the above factor in mind, take a closer look at the western access point to Sturgia. You will be able to realize that strategically, Omor is absolutely the most important of all the Sturgian towns. And every invading army -- Vlandians, Battanians, Northern Empire, Southern Empire -- will seek to take Omor, or less frequently, Varcheg. When Omor is lost, Sturgian land is effectively split into two, and strategically/logistically cut off from each other. In such wars, if an invading force succeeds in taking Omor, and then raiding a few villages around Varcheg, then a lord based on Reyvil and its nearby villages, have to move a distance that traverses half of Sturgia (roughly same distance of going from western tip to the eastern tip of Northern Empire), cross though enemy territory, cross a narrow strait, to reach Balgard to be able to get more recruits.

In the initial stages of the game, Sturgia and Vlandia are at war. In this situation, if the war between Battanians and the Western Empire end faster than the war between Vlandia and Sturgia, then Sturgia essentially goes into a double RNG check, and needs to have neither Battanians nor Western Empire declaring its next war against Sturgia. Heck, if any of the wars in the initial opening phase end before the Vlandia-Sturgia war, then Sturgia directly falls under possibility of facing multiple wars.

This, is the real reason why Sturgia gradually gets weaker and weaker until the point of collapse, earlier than anyone else. Around mid-game, all of the strategic problems mentioned above will pile on top of each other, until none of the lords can sustain or field any kind of army to be able to defend their lands.


Khuazait
Now, with the above in mind, compare it to Khuzait. From a glance, it looks similar. Looks similar to Sturgia, but only north-south strip of land, instead of west-east. But the reality can't be any more different.

The "colors" of the map look like Khuzait is adjacent to Sturgia, Northern Empire, Southern Empire, and Aserai at the same time -- only 1 lesser than Sturgia, but logistics-wise, Khuzait is only actually adjacent to two kingdom: Northern Empire and Southern Empire.

At the opening stages of the game, Khuzait is at war with the Northern Empire. And practically speaking, it is that single access point to Khuzait that is really contested in any kind of wars Khuzaits take part in.

In the southern point adjacent to Aserai, the distance between Husn Fulq and Odokh is pretty far. It's only "adjacent" in terms of territory, but what lies between those two towns... is nothing. It's a wide open space with no castles in between. The next closest town of Razih, is even further. From the start the Aserai are at war with the Southern Empire, and in many cases the Aserai could make it up to Vostrum, but it usually stops there. All the major attention of the Aserai, given the logistic/strategic position they are in, are focused at their western access point across "Calradia's Gibraltar." The Aserai and Khuzait, simply don't fight, because there are no real targets to fight over. The Aserai rarely go up further than Vostrum, and usually their war with the Southern Empire usually stops there.

From this point on, the Aserai are all about crossing that channel in the west, and fighting the Western Empire and the Vlandians.

As much, the Sturgians are also almost entirely engaged in trying to protect their lands around Omor, right from the start, that they rarely seek to go southward from Tyal. It's just not an option.

However, for the Khuzaits, the situation is very different. Major Khuzait cities and Imperial cities are in close proximity to each other in two groups: Amprela/Myzea-vs-Makeb/Chaikand, and Onira-vs-Akkalat/Odokh.

Therefore, think about it.

1. After the wars that raged in Calaradia in the initial, opening phase of the game subside, Sturgia has a very good chance to be attacked by more than one out of five kingdoms that it is adjacent in the western access.

2. The Aserai, after ending the war with the Southern Empire, will almost 100% attempt to cross the straits and strike at Western Empire's Ortysia.

3. With Sturgians tied up in the west, and Aserai also looking to expand in the west, Khuzait will only be exposed to a multi-opponent war if Northern Empire and Southern Empire declare war on Khuzait at the same time.

4. However, if the North and South Empire declares war on someone else (or fights each other), THEN IF KHUZAIT DECLARES WAR ON ANY ONE OF STURGIA, SOUTHERN EMPIRE, OR NORTHERN EMPIRE, THEY GET TO GANG UP.




SUMMARY
(1) up to end of the game Vlandia, Battania, WE, Aserai will never really fight the Khuzait
(2) Sturgia will always be tied up in the west against Vlandia, Battania, WE
(3) THE ONLY ENEMIES KHUZAIT WILL EVER FIGHT WILL BE SE, NE, STURGIA
(4) THROUGHOUT THE MAJORITY OF THE GAME, THE KHUZAIT WILL GANG UP ON ITS ENEMY MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE
(5) THROUGHOUT THE MAJORITY OF THE GAME, THE KHUZAIT WILL ALMOST NEVER BE GANGED UP UPON


This, above, is the real reason why Khuzaits always seem to expand quite freely. Considering the strategic conditions and locations of all the kingdoms in the game, Khuzaits are the least to be ganged up upon. They are the most likely to gang up on someone else.

I can make a prediction, that in the games that the Khuzait didn't really steam-roll anyone, it would be the case tgat the NE or SE either both went to war against the Khuzaits, or did not fight anyone else, and always fought Khuzait on one-on-one terms. The Khuzait army is powerful, but they're not that powerful enough to just steamroll the enemy and conquer everything through autocalc. Khuzaits always expand through Sturgia and NE lands first. And empirically, the ones that really hold off the Khuzaits are the NE.

In the games NE stays strong, the Khuzait advance is either halted or very slow. In the games where NE is decimated early on, then the Khuzait expand easily, coming in fast west of Makeb and through Amprela and Myzea.
 
From what I've seen, you're right on all of this, the strategic geography is more important than the autoresolve and speed bonuses by far.
I think the best illustration is just comparing the current state to what happened at launch, where the Khuzaits were routinely contained or destroyed by the Southern Empire, which was snowballing early by preying on the pathetic Aserai.
 
You also forget in the base game cavalry gets a 30% advantage at their tier for auto calc. So by khuzaits sheer horse numbers they're fighting with a 30% advantage ALL THE TIME.
 
One thing to add to your point about Husn Fulq is that there is a choke point between the tip of the mountain range and the small lake that makes it hard for Aserai to reach to defend, but a very easy target for either the Southern Empire or Khuzait to attack. It seems to get taken quickly very often. It might need a mountain pass to the south like this:
Edit: Tyal is also somewhat like this. Maybe the mountains should have been rotated ~180 degrees to open toward the west?
 
Last edited:
I can't claim to have even remotely approached OP's level of observation and analysis, but I've also thought that the big-picture faction weaknesses/strengths was probably affected much more by geography than by faction troop trees.
 
After failing to help them several times as a merc due to the shear volumes of wars that happen I have come to these findings. I did not have to try hard like this for any other faction.

I don't know where you get 5 kingdoms in striking distance, I count 4 immediate, which is standard. They all seem to have 3 to 5 neighbours, empire being in the true melting pot. What was missed was the shoots and ladders you have to do to get from one end of Sturgia to the other, the up and down travel instead of left to right. If you stretched a travel line as a crow fly's it would double the length of Sturgia. Top it off with perma snow and trees everywhere. This is the only place I know like this. All the rest are relatively easy to get around in.

Rag is a tool. The dude declares war on everyone that says they don't like fish and furs, the whole map. 3 wars is child's play go for 7 Big Rag, you tool.

Lastly, their tree has some troops that are pretty terrible. Bows suck, tier 4 spearmen suck, they have two cav lines that are bad or sub par (WTF? why?).

Lets talk about that last one a bit and tree a bit. Why do they need two bad to sub par cav trees? Isn't this an infantry faction? just give them one in the standard tree and make the noble tree unique. One of these lines should be a hard counter to horse archers. The way shield walls work leaves their backs open to the horse archer circle jerk.
 
Last edited:
OP you're most likely correct but it doesn't help that Sturgia has the most overly aggressive leader in the game. Honestly he's Gandhi's from Civ V reincarnated. Also it doesn't help that they have some of the worst troop trees in the game and need a major overhaul.
 
The part about aserai pretty much completely contradicts my experience. In all my campaigns so far the main focus for the Aserai was fighting in the Husn-Fulq area, against both the Khuzaits and Southern Empire. You could say that the area around Danustica, Husn-Fulq and Shibal-Zumr castle is a triangle where those three factions constantly fight it out among each other. (With the Aserai usually losing in my experience). I don't think I have ever seen the Aserai making any gains in the west.
 
Sturgia makes for fun runs, and will get moreso when background processes are ironed out. Particularly raising and lowering prosperity and starving out garrisons, I'm so bummed they nerfed eco-warfare, although happy to see it's a mechanism that is both being monitored and has so much influence they had to decimate it's effects.

They get blasted early game without player input, but likewise can be a jump-off ramp for your kingdom. After all, the castles and cities you earn are those of your neighbours. So you've got to keep them healthy and alive before you have a chance to welcome their fiefs into the fold.
Mecalovea and Caleus/Ormanfard can give you small dose of useful recruits before you start flipping prisoners. If khuzait declare - you're dead meat, but until then enjoy the horse archers. Any and every truce with Vlandiands should be used to stock castles with fresh vlandian levy meatshields in case the steppe-levee breaks.

Sturgia is the real hard-mode.

PS: as for recruits - if you think about it, Sturgian recruits are really 0-tier Fians. You just need to 1, F3-F3, F1-F3 forest bandits with them and block out the horrific shouting. Wichever Sturgians survive the recruitment phase can be put into archers control group instead of infantry - that way they'll protect archers in case of a small horseman attack.
 
Last edited:
Sturgia is a ****fest for a multitude of reasons, the OP analyzed one of these correctly, the Geography.
It would be interesting to know, if the Culture Bonuses you as player get apply to the NPC characters as well. If not, they totally should, for logical reasons but also to help Kingdoms with difficult terrain and their culture actually countering it a little.

Raganvad is very aggressive, declaring nonsensical wars in situations, where he should concentrate his forces against one enemy.
I tried to play for Sturgia first as Merc and then as Vassal and it was a constant decline, in the end, when I decided to delete the savegame and start a new because it was hopeless, we only had Varnovapol, we where constantly at war with at the very minimum one kingdom, most of the time with 3 or more kingdoms. Even the, but really a bit rarer, Aserai-Sturgia Wars happened, but as far as I could observe, they never really met in battle, probably Aserai Armies dissolved by itself due to cohesion issues or food issues and Sturgian Armies... Well they were none to speak off and even if, they didn't make it out of the bit of remaining land before they got rounded up by other enemies.

And when one war ended, where every king with a somewhat sane mind would've said "Good that's over, now reconsolidate our strength, end wars and then concentrate on taking back land one by one", Raganvad does the total opposite, declares another war.
The only thing he did in a good manner was hiring many mercenaries, but that was it.

And another problem that plagues Sturgia are internal problems, when it gets weaker and weaker, nearly always the internal arch-enemy of Raganvad, Olek, will leave Sturgia alongside his whole clan with all his fiefs, one of them is Tyal in the east, and join another kingdom.
In my first Sturgia Savegame I saw him joining the Khuzaits, I convinced him once to come back, when he lead an army to besiege Varnovapol, instantly disintegrating the Khuzait Army, ending the Siege and causing Chaos, but only a few days after him betraying the Khuzaits, he betrayed Sturgia again and joined, you wouldn't think of it, again the Khuzaits!
And when you talk to Olek during the Battle of Pendraic initial quest, he openly voices his distate for Raganvad and both are marked as enemies to each other, but sadly Olek is a mighty noble, his loss weakens Sturgia in the manpower compartment tremendously.
Honestly, when they add Civil Wars into the game, I expect Olek to nearly always go to War against Raganvad for the crown of Sturgia very early and winning it for himself most of the time, probably being a better ruler than Raganvad.

In my second real playthrough, now with Battania, he also betrayed Sturgia (what a surprise... not) but this time he joined the Aserai....

And Sturgia also got stomped, now instead they're limited to Sibir as last town.

I don't believe, that the intention of the devs was to create a victim kingdom, something has to be done to balance things out, one being that Raganvads AI should be looked at again, it really reminds of Civ's Gandhi, who threatens you with nuclear destruction, if you wanna meassure the level of insane AI aggression.

I don't expect them to do rash changes to the map except in future expansions, but Native Sturgian Parties, since the Sturgians are used to living in their land, should be way faster in snow, giving them atleast the 10% Culture Bonus the Player gets when he picks Sturgian Culture, to ease their burden.

Their Troops also should get a bonus in their homeland in the auto calculation, like that they fight better in snowy or forested areas with their melee infantry (and also in towns).

And I agree on the cavalry, having two sub-average cavalry lines is unnecessary, it should only be one that, at Tier 5, becomes average at best.

And, that was already discussed in I guess a number of other threads, the AI should be a bit less inclined to betray their kingdom and joining the enemy (Olek does that repeatedly) and traitorous nobles should be able to be executed with no penalty in your own kingdom or other kingdoms, obviously only the enemy kingdom and the family of the executed noble should hate you for that.

Maybe AI's in general should become less bellicose, I see no sense in the AI randomly rolling "I ended the war with X, now lets go to war immediately with the other".
The AI, like humans would, should meassure it's own troops strength vs the enemies and either build up forces, making the land peaceful for atleast a while or go in ganging on other AI's, when they're in a weakspot.
And the AI should take into account the combined power of several enemy kingdoms, if it is at war with multiple kingdoms.

But NEVER, Never ever should the AI, like Raganvad currently does, declare wars without sense and in total disregard to the own weakened state.
 
Yeah, OP is probably accurate, and this is why game needs advanced diplomacy mechanics, if they really want to prevent snowballing.
They will never be able to balance troops perfectly or make every kingdom geographically equal, and they shouldn't.
Stronger kingdoms will always seek their opportunity through war, and weaker should seek through alliances.
 
The geography of the game is broken. Warband did it much better. They added lots of cities in this game without any substance.
But the map wont change.
 
I don't expect them to do rash changes to the map except in future expansions, but Native Sturgian Parties, since the Sturgians are used to living in their land, should be way faster in snow, giving them at least the 10% Culture Bonus the Player gets when he picks Sturgian Culture, to ease their burden.
The 10% faster in snow is stupid and should be removed. Its just a lazy culture bonus. They were like hmmm what do we give the Stugians as a bonus? Make them faster in snow? hmm but it only snows during winter... then we ll make the land a place of forever winter.
Its just lazy.

One of the developers already stated that the map wont change, but the map in is current form is garbage. Its a shame as their earlier versions of the map looked much better. The seas that were separating Aserai and Sturgia were much smaller.
 
Contrary to popular belief, it's got nothing to do with the unit roster, nor has anything to do with certain units being OP or underwhelming. The results of individual battles in one or two wars hardly makes a difference in the larger scale. Doesn't matter if its Khuzaits or Sturgians or whatever -- caught up in a war with multiple enemies without enough armies fielded to cover every attack, and they will suffer.

The problem is the geography of Calradia and general situation each kingdoms are in.

STRAT-Calradia.png


The circled areas in the map, are the initials stages of conflict where it is most frequently contested between warring kingdoms.

If you just take a glance at the map, the Sturgians and Khuzaits seem to be in a similar state -- both are on the edges of the terrain, seemingly adjacent to multiple enemies. However, if you take into consideration the location of major cities, average distances between such cities, and the initial condition each of those states are in, the situation is very different.


Sturgia
Sturgia is located on the northern end of the map. It is a thin, elongated strip of land that runs west to east, and is within striking distance of 5 kingdoms out of other 7. We know for a fact, that the kingdoms are much more likely to declare war on its closest rivals. You rarely -- if ever -- see wars happening between Aserai-Sturgia, or Vlandia-Khuzait, in the initial phases of the game. The AI kingdoms will risk long distance campaigns to take settlements that's deep in enemy territory, yes, but that enemy is itself, most likely to be an adjacent entity.

In that sense, from the start, out of the two "access points" the Sturgians have toward the south, the western point is adjacent to Vlandia, Battania and the Northern Empire at the same time, with the Southern Empire also dangerously close. If we assume war declarations to be totally random, even through pure chance the Sturgians are the most likely candidate to be a target due to this western access point.

What about the eastern point? The eastern point is directly adjacent to the Khuzaits and the Northern Empire. If the Sturgians decide to expand from this direction, they are very likely going to war against Khuzaits -- and as a primarily infantry-based faction, the Khuzaits are the worst enemies to go to war with.

From the start, the shape of the land itself is actually a problem as well. Suppose the Sturgians find a great opportunity to advance southward in one of these two access points. Logistically speaking, Sturgia from west end to east end, is almost twice as longer than the Northern Empire, and the east-west span actually matches that of Aserai.

When Sturgia is starts a way from any of the two access points, or receives an invasion, a lord that is based in towns like Varcheg will take almost a week to travel to Tyal, and vice versa. Select a point in the middle of each kingdom, and measure the distance an army has to cover to reach any of its borders, and you will see that on average, Sturgian forces need to travel around three times longer distance to get to the borders. This logistical problem is further hampered by the mountain ranges that often hamper direct travel, and forces you to go around. This logistical problem also directly affects the rate at which the Sturgian lords replenish recruits due to the distance problems.

With the above factor in mind, take a closer look at the western access point to Sturgia. You will be able to realize that strategically, Omor is absolutely the most important of all the Sturgian towns. And every invading army -- Vlandians, Battanians, Northern Empire, Southern Empire -- will seek to take Omor, or less frequently, Varcheg. When Omor is lost, Sturgian land is effectively split into two, and strategically/logistically cut off from each other. In such wars, if an invading force succeeds in taking Omor, and then raiding a few villages around Varcheg, then a lord based on Reyvil and its nearby villages, have to move a distance that traverses half of Sturgia (roughly same distance of going from western tip to the eastern tip of Northern Empire), cross though enemy territory, cross a narrow strait, to reach Balgard to be able to get more recruits.

In the initial stages of the game, Sturgia and Vlandia are at war. In this situation, if the war between Battanians and the Western Empire end faster than the war between Vlandia and Sturgia, then Sturgia essentially goes into a double RNG check, and needs to have neither Battanians nor Western Empire declaring its next war against Sturgia. Heck, if any of the wars in the initial opening phase end before the Vlandia-Sturgia war, then Sturgia directly falls under possibility of facing multiple wars.

This, is the real reason why Sturgia gradually gets weaker and weaker until the point of collapse, earlier than anyone else. Around mid-game, all of the strategic problems mentioned above will pile on top of each other, until none of the lords can sustain or field any kind of army to be able to defend their lands.


Khuazait
Now, with the above in mind, compare it to Khuzait. From a glance, it looks similar. Looks similar to Sturgia, but only north-south strip of land, instead of west-east. But the reality can't be any more different.

The "colors" of the map look like Khuzait is adjacent to Sturgia, Northern Empire, Southern Empire, and Aserai at the same time -- only 1 lesser than Sturgia, but logistics-wise, Khuzait is only actually adjacent to two kingdom: Northern Empire and Southern Empire.

At the opening stages of the game, Khuzait is at war with the Northern Empire. And practically speaking, it is that single access point to Khuzait that is really contested in any kind of wars Khuzaits take part in.

In the southern point adjacent to Aserai, the distance between Husn Fulq and Odokh is pretty far. It's only "adjacent" in terms of territory, but what lies between those two towns... is nothing. It's a wide open space with no castles in between. The next closest town of Razih, is even further. From the start the Aserai are at war with the Southern Empire, and in many cases the Aserai could make it up to Vostrum, but it usually stops there. All the major attention of the Aserai, given the logistic/strategic position they are in, are focused at their western access point across "Calradia's Gibraltar." The Aserai and Khuzait, simply don't fight, because there are no real targets to fight over. The Aserai rarely go up further than Vostrum, and usually their war with the Southern Empire usually stops there.

From this point on, the Aserai are all about crossing that channel in the west, and fighting the Western Empire and the Vlandians.

As much, the Sturgians are also almost entirely engaged in trying to protect their lands around Omor, right from the start, that they rarely seek to go southward from Tyal. It's just not an option.

However, for the Khuzaits, the situation is very different. Major Khuzait cities and Imperial cities are in close proximity to each other in two groups: Amprela/Myzea-vs-Makeb/Chaikand, and Onira-vs-Akkalat/Odokh.

Therefore, think about it.

1. After the wars that raged in Calaradia in the initial, opening phase of the game subside, Sturgia has a very good chance to be attacked by more than one out of five kingdoms that it is adjacent in the western access.

2. The Aserai, after ending the war with the Southern Empire, will almost 100% attempt to cross the straits and strike at Western Empire's Ortysia.

3. With Sturgians tied up in the west, and Aserai also looking to expand in the west, Khuzait will only be exposed to a multi-opponent war if Northern Empire and Southern Empire declare war on Khuzait at the same time.

4. However, if the North and South Empire declares war on someone else (or fights each other), THEN IF KHUZAIT DECLARES WAR ON ANY ONE OF STURGIA, SOUTHERN EMPIRE, OR NORTHERN EMPIRE, THEY GET TO GANG UP.




SUMMARY
(1) up to end of the game Vlandia, Battania, WE, Aserai will never really fight the Khuzait
(2) Sturgia will always be tied up in the west against Vlandia, Battania, WE
(3) THE ONLY ENEMIES KHUZAIT WILL EVER FIGHT WILL BE SE, NE, STURGIA
(4) THROUGHOUT THE MAJORITY OF THE GAME, THE KHUZAIT WILL GANG UP ON ITS ENEMY MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE
(5) THROUGHOUT THE MAJORITY OF THE GAME, THE KHUZAIT WILL ALMOST NEVER BE GANGED UP UPON


This, above, is the real reason why Khuzaits always seem to expand quite freely. Considering the strategic conditions and locations of all the kingdoms in the game, Khuzaits are the least to be ganged up upon. They are the most likely to gang up on someone else.

I can make a prediction, that in the games that the Khuzait didn't really steam-roll anyone, it would be the case tgat the NE or SE either both went to war against the Khuzaits, or did not fight anyone else, and always fought Khuzait on one-on-one terms. The Khuzait army is powerful, but they're not that powerful enough to just steamroll the enemy and conquer everything through autocalc. Khuzaits always expand through Sturgia and NE lands first. And empirically, the ones that really hold off the Khuzaits are the NE.

In the games NE stays strong, the Khuzait advance is either halted or very slow. In the games where NE is decimated early on, then the Khuzait expand easily, coming in fast west of Makeb and through Amprela and Myzea.
This is cool, but the ways to counter-balance this without modifying the in-game geography include increasing the amount of villages for Sturgia (currently has the lowest count), actually giving them their cultural feat (not working for them at all because the snow detection is broken, so even with mods enabling the feats, it doesn't work). Or give them some serious auto-calc buff (everybody has massive amounts of cavalry, and Khuzaits are the worse). They also have a single almost useless clan (the bear banner one) which has only 1 guy. Also, their prosperity is ****, I think they are the poorest starting faction of all...
 
I do think the analysis looks sound, I do have other things to add that though. The Battanians are in a similar state where they can be attacked by many factions and are likely to be at war with more than one. Additionally, when fighting on two fronts losing two successive battles (and with that castles and/or towns) has a far larger effect, so these factions are indeed more easily steamrolled, simply via position.
As for the Khuzait is also very worth noting that here Geography plays a good role in defending, as the Makeb Chokepoint can easily be held against the Northern Empire, to the south Aserai would have to cross a day's worth of no man's land to get to the nearest town, while Danustica is indeed just around the corner.
Additionally Khuzait are cavalry centric and therefore faster on the map, meaning they can reach further, can retreat, chase and converge more effectively, especially since their home turf is also pretty dense, as all towns are within a day's or less reach. The Sturgians have more mountains and forests that will slow down the enemy, but more importantly themselves in a country that is basically one long stretch.
Also the Sturgians have the problem that their chokepoint against Battania and Vlandia is not secured by a town and that their town south of the mainland, which serves as a foothold, is hard to defend and therefore simply invites invasions.
I am also unsure, if the AI is always using geography to its advantage and if complicated geography actually hinders their movement more than the player. Generally AI scripts sometimes seem to complicated to be used correctly. For example Tyal was under Siege by the Khuzait and the main Sturgian force was too weak to defend or relief the town, so they decided to attack an underdefended castle in Khuzait mainland. Generally not a totally bad idea. However it took the Sturgians two days to reach it and another day to siege it. In that time Tyal siege was almost over (generally sieges seem way too fast) and while they managed to take the castle, they then spread out and got mopped up one by one by a way faster Khuzait army, leaving the Sturgians in a state worse than they were before or if they just tried to relief Tyal.
.
Something that should be considered is a 10% speed boost for Sturgians in the forests and mountains so they can coverge and retreat quicker as well as a general speed boost to all factions on their original home turf. Also the option for AI parties to make a makeshift defensive fort when being chases to level the odds a little. Like the wagon fort of F&S.
 
You rarely -- if ever -- see wars happening between Aserai-Sturgia, or Vlandia-Khuzait,

Oh how I wish that were true. Right now in 1.2.1 Vlandia will declare war randomly on the Khuzait. This can happen early game when the two kingdoms have had no contact with each other. The Aserai will also declare war on the Nothern Empire and then march across three quarters of the map to siege a city or castle.

1.0.11 may have acted like you describe. 1.2.1 not so much.

I agree that Sturgia is basically indefensable. They will lose cities to someone and it often happen early. In my games the Vlandians always take Varcheg and effectively split Sturgia in two. In my current game this happened the very first month. It's almost like starting Vlandia and Sturgia at war at the start of the game was a bad idea.
 
The Vlandians also always seem to win everything in my games, and the Battanians often beat the western empire. It's a bit disappointing that the outcome for each new game isn't more random.
 
I do think the analysis looks sound, I do have other things to add that though. The Battanians are in a similar state where they can be attacked by many factions and are likely to be at war with more than one. Additionally, when fighting on two fronts losing two successive battles (and with that castles and/or towns) has a far larger effect, so these factions are indeed more easily steamrolled, simply via position.
As for the Khuzait is also very worth noting that here Geography plays a good role in defending, as the Makeb Chokepoint can easily be held against the Northern Empire, to the south Aserai would have to cross a day's worth of no man's land to get to the nearest town, while Danustica is indeed just around the corner.
Additionally Khuzait are cavalry centric and therefore faster on the map, meaning they can reach further, can retreat, chase and converge more effectively, especially since their home turf is also pretty dense, as all towns are within a day's or less reach. The Sturgians have more mountains and forests that will slow down the enemy, but more importantly themselves in a country that is basically one long stretch.
Also the Sturgians have the problem that their chokepoint against Battania and Vlandia is not secured by a town and that their town south of the mainland, which serves as a foothold, is hard to defend and therefore simply invites invasions.
I am also unsure, if the AI is always using geography to its advantage and if complicated geography actually hinders their movement more than the player. Generally AI scripts sometimes seem to complicated to be used correctly. For example Tyal was under Siege by the Khuzait and the main Sturgian force was too weak to defend or relief the town, so they decided to attack an underdefended castle in Khuzait mainland. Generally not a totally bad idea. However it took the Sturgians two days to reach it and another day to siege it. In that time Tyal siege was almost over (generally sieges seem way too fast) and while they managed to take the castle, they then spread out and got mopped up one by one by a way faster Khuzait army, leaving the Sturgians in a state worse than they were before or if they just tried to relief Tyal.
.
Something that should be considered is a 10% speed boost for Sturgians in the forests and mountains so they can coverge and retreat quicker as well as a general speed boost to all factions on their original home turf. Also the option for AI parties to make a makeshift defensive fort when being chases to level the odds a little. Like the wagon fort of F&S.
well, you are wrong there, you may have experienced Battania having it's arse handed on a platter, but that's not the most common outcome. Battania has the best fiefs (amount of villages per town) in the map, it's 4 villages for each town, all you have to do as them is to survive the early game, if you do (or the AI does) they start to completely paint the entire map, they'll constantly prey upon everybody, except for Vlandia, which's kinda weird, I've never seen them dive into Vlandian territory, at most capture a single fief in 10 in-game years...
 
Back
Top Bottom