Which Order to establish?

[Phoss]

I haven't actually gotten to where I am ready to establish a KO yet, but I want to start making preparations, such as selecting the type of order and start working toward all the requirements to establish it.

A quick glance at the various troops they order shows that they are definitely not all equal. Lady Valkyries, which was my 1st choice since I'm planning on a Fierdsvain culture, seem fairly weak compared to, say, Shadow Legion or the Windriders.

Should I not worry too much about the mechanics and just pick whatever I like since they all seem fairly OP compared to regular troops anyway? Or am I missing some other benefits that would make up for lack of troop strength, such as higher recruitment numbers/price/training time?

The Shadow Legion seems fairly badass, and look it too. Are they worth a Qualis tear?

 

[Sirg]

Phoss, pay attention on the order of the Radiant Cross: their armor is toughest (and most beautiful (!)) among all the standard orders, equal to Mettenhime Forlorne Hope armor. It can be a decisive factor in battle, despite their relatively low skills. Their chapter is in Ethos.

 

[SCV Arius]

It really depends on your play-style, since all the KOs are beefed-up versions of the regular factional noble units, with a few exceptions.
I will list the factional orders, since the other orders have prerequisites other than having a Qualis gem.

If you play like a;
1. Native game Swadian (all out cavalry charge), the Lions of Sarleon is a good choice.
2. Skirmisher, but want melee capabilities, the Valkyries of Fierdsvain is a good choice.
3. Pure Skirmisher, then D'Shar Windriders is a good choice.
4. Cavalry-Infantry general, then Dragons of Rane is a good choice.
5. Pure Infantry, then Empire Immortals is a good choice.

 

[wookdaddy]

If you're playing all infantry with the Fierds, you might try ebony gauntlet out. They're the most OP of the orders as the best infantry/archer combo. 1 shot kills usually with their crossbows (piercing) and they have piercing melee weapons as well, great armor, and stats. They have shields, unlike the immortals, who are extremely vulnerable to archers. In a 100 vs 100 battle ebony gauntlet will win against the shadow legion. They dislike the elves, but it won't stop you from allying with them.

 

[Leonion]

In a 100 vs 100 battle ebony gauntlet will win against the shadow legion.

What kind of battle? Normal field battle or fief scene kind of battle?
I don't know about the second one, but I tested 50 SLCs against 50 KotEGs once in a normal field battle and SLCs won 47:0 even despite the fact that KotEGs were standing on a small hill.

Also in another set of tests (the last 3 are not mine) KotEGs did relatively poorly against Immortals: they still won 17:0, 29:0, 7:0 and 6:0, but c'mon, they pretend to be so badass yet can't even defeat poor Immortals charging at them with 2h swords in their hands without taking heavy losses.

 

[Phoss]

Alright, thanks, that gives me an idea of which order is strongest.

There's no difference in price/recruitment/availability etc? Can I recruit from the chapters that already are established, or do I need to found a chapter myself?

 

[Raviollius]

You recruit nobles from your faction, which can be trained into whatever KO you have.

 

[Phoss]

Ah  ok. Yeah, I don't think I fully understand how KOs work since this is my first playthrough. I read the manual and it's still a litte fuzzy, but I guess I'll figure it out as I go along.

 

[thermocline]

Phoss,

You may find these threads of interest:

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=342078.30

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,344402.0.html

Mind you that Griffons have been buffed since these tests. They had their helms upgraded by +6 armor and they now have a 33% chance to carry ebony swords.

 

[thermocline]

On a side note, I would rank the mounted melee orders like this:

Top tier: Lions, SLC
Above average: Ravenspears, Eventides, Griffons
Below average: Dawns, Falcons, Windriders
Bottom tier: Dragons, Radiant Cross, LVs

Difficult to rank Immortals, KotEG, Silvermists, and RotCC as they perform different functions than a simple melee knight. I personally am not a fan of KotEG (to me the worst of the Qualis orders) and would rank them below the 3.7 Silvermists and RotCC.

 

[Bjuret]

Remember that bottom tier does not mean bad. They are still knight-class troops and will have few issues with most common troops. Just make sure to use them properly, mounted does not mean heavy cavalry.

Also, yeah, you do have to found your own chapter, unless you capture a town with an existing one (make sure they are at positive in relation!) or get some through order quests.

 

[Raviollius]

Difficult to rank Immortals, KotEG, Silvermists, and RotCC as they perform different functions than a simple melee knight. I personally am not a fan of KotEG (to me the worst of the Qualis orders) and would rank them below the 3.7 Silvermists and RotCC.

I'm curious, you said that RotCC shouldn't be judged as mounted knights, but then why the Windriders are?

 

[Phoss]

Thanks for the input guys. I don't really have a preference either way in regards to infantry, archery or cavalry style units, as long as they are durable as I absolutely hate high level casualties. Since my Companions will probably function as cavalry, I might go for some ground units or some archers, like the Silvermist Rangers.

 

[Leonion]

Bottom tier: Dragons, Radiant Cross, LVs

Frankly, I'm not sure about Radiant Cross any more.
One of PoP players recently tested them against other KOs (each battle was repeated 3 times) and they bested everyone but Lions and SLCs.

I was so shocked they could defeat Immortals that I did several tests 50 RCs vs 50 Immortals on my own. The main result of these tests was that random is merciless: outcomes varied from 40:0 to 0:30.

 

[Yber]

Shadow legion is the absolute strongest. However generally I go eventide/dawn, they're also very all around and stronger than most orders, plus you can get them off of pendor knights when you go rogue.

 

[thermocline]

Thanks for the input guys. I don't really have a preference either way in regards to infantry, archery or cavalry style units, as long as they are durable as I absolutely hate high level casualties. Since my Companions will probably function as cavalry, I might go for some ground units or some archers, like the Silvermist Rangers.

Most important thing to deal with casualties is to get 10+4 surgery on your main. 27 int, 9 surgery, +1 book, +4 leader bonus.

 

[thermocline]

Bottom tier: Dragons, Radiant Cross, LVs

Frankly, I'm not sure about Radiant Cross any more.
One of PoP players recently tested them against other KOs (each battle was repeated 3 times) and they bested everyone but Lions and SLCs.

I was so shocked they could defeat Immortals that I did several tests 50 RCs vs 50 Immortals on my own. The main result of these tests was that random is merciless: outcomes varied from 40:0 to 0:30.

??? Very interesting. The only change to Radiant Cross in 3.7 (that I noticed) was the addition of polehammers. Surprised that a two-handed polehammer would really help a mounted knight.

 

[Bjuret]

Bottom tier: Dragons, Radiant Cross, LVs

Frankly, I'm not sure about Radiant Cross any more.
One of PoP players recently tested them against other KOs (each battle was repeated 3 times) and they bested everyone but Lions and SLCs.

I was so shocked they could defeat Immortals that I did several tests 50 RCs vs 50 Immortals on my own. The main result of these tests was that random is merciless: outcomes varied from 40:0 to 0:30.

??? Very interesting. The only change to Radiant Cross in 3.7 (that I noticed) was the addition of polehammers. Surprised that a two-handed polehammer would really help a mounted knight.

Think of it like a blunt spear with 120 range, and you'll see how it might tip the odds in their favor.
I had Alistair wield one to great effect, something that came as quite the surprise.

 

[wookdaddy]

In a 100 vs 100 battle ebony gauntlet will win against the shadow legion.

What kind of battle? Normal field battle or fief scene kind of battle?
I don't know about the second one, but I tested 50 SLCs against 50 KotEGs once in a normal field battle and SLCs won 47:0 even despite the fact that KotEGs were standing on a small hill.

Also in another set of tests (the last 3 are not mine) KotEGs did relatively poorly against Immortals: they still won 17:0, 29:0, 7:0 and 6:0, but c'mon, they pretend to be so badass yet can't even defeat poor Immortals charging at them with 2h swords in their hands without taking heavy losses.

Well, if you use KOTEG how they are intended - crossbows first in the field - they kill pretty much everything. They might struggle vs. the insano OP cavalry but I think he got my point. I haven't done testing on it, just from playing normally. Once I had about 50 of them I never lost another fight. Shadow legion also is way too expensive and ebony gauntlet are better in sieges/siege defense thanks to their crossbows. That being said, I haven't played in a long time so maybe the orders have changed.

 

[avesta]

I'm playing 3.6 but Koteg's are incredibly useful in sieges since they double up as archers. I believe they also use piercing weapons like the mace, which is great in sieges because they can actually swing their weapons in confined spaces and mass blobs, due to the short range of the mace.

Of course, all this depends on your play-style and how your campaign is going. If you need to win field battles then go with a cav based KO. If you need to conquer castles/towns KoteGs will get the job done.