When there's 3 or more javelins in your shield... you pretty much shouldn't be able to use it.

Dearmad

Veteran
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The pilum was designed as a one shot shield killer. So I'll let 3 javelins suffice to simulate that.

So why in this game can I have 40 javelins in my shield and laugh it off.

Anyone know where I could mod the damage javelins (or any weapons) do to shields? I'm sensing this and spears need a rework for me to have fun.
 
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I would agree in general, but in the current state ranged units are already overpowered. If anything shields should get a buff on their size to act as a counter. Nothing wrong with modding it in of course, to each their own.
 

durbal

Sergeant
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How is your shield not broken after 3 javelins? I guess if they were low tier and from foot troops...
 

ShotgunJed

Recruit
WBNWVC
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I would agree in general, but in the current state ranged units are already overpowered. If anything shields should get a buff on their size to act as a counter. Nothing wrong with modding it in of course, to each their own.
They should make the game more realistic. Also ranged units aren't overpowered, archers are.

I agree with OP, shields should be unusable if there's a few javelins stuck in it. It would actually make javelins more better as they're always trash in the mount and blade series. In addition, they'd have to nerf the accuracy and damage of bows and arrows since Bannerlord balance is almost like Prophesy of Pendor's balance: archers are overpowered.

Nerfing only bow and arrow damage serves to make this game all about heavy infantry and heavy cavalry, which is basically warband. If you add OP's suggestion of making throwing weapons more anti-shield, then it would make the game more balanced overall, it would keep heavy infantry and heavy cavalry in check.
 

Semke

Recruit
WBNW
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Shields should be majorly nerfed in general, they take way too much effort to break, which in return reduces infantry killing power dramatically.
 

ShotgunJed

Recruit
WBNWVC
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Shields should be majorly nerfed in general, they take way too much effort to break, which in return reduces infantry killing power dramatically.
Not against melee they shouldn't. Otherwise infantry vs infantry battles will end too quickly
 

Pejot

Knight at Arms
WBVC
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I think that ranged combat is not overpowered. The problems in my opinion are:
- Ranged bandits have too good bows, arrows and accuracy. Exceptfor highest tier bandits they should have only ****ty bows and arrows. Also they should beworse at archery and have less arrows on them.
- Same goes for archers tier 3 and below. They should have most simply bows and arrows and less skill in using them.
- There are too many units using javelins and javelins have too much ammo. First of all heavy infantry throwing javelins like some ****ing rifle is just ridiculous. Heavy infantry in history had at most one javelin that they used as spear and throw when needed. Units specialised in javelins should be light infantry. Also they should add mechanic for any short spear to be thrown.
- Crossbows are quite balanced except of giving blunt damage instead of piercing. Maybe they should reload a little longer and reloading animation should include unit showing his back (with shield on it) when reloading.
 

stevehoos

Grandmaster Knight
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I think that ranged combat is not overpowered. The problems in my opinion are:
- Ranged bandits have too good bows, arrows and accuracy. Exceptfor highest tier bandits they should have only ****ty bows and arrows. Also they should beworse at archery and have less arrows on them.
- Same goes for archers tier 3 and below. They should have most simply bows and arrows and less skill in using them.
- There are too many units using javelins and javelins have too much ammo. First of all heavy infantry throwing javelins like some ****ing rifle is just ridiculous. Heavy infantry in history had at most one javelin that they used as spear and throw when needed. Units specialised in javelins should be light infantry. Also they should add mechanic for any short spear to be thrown.
- Crossbows are quite balanced except of giving blunt damage instead of piercing. Maybe they should reload a little longer and reloading animation should include unit showing his back (with shield on it) when reloading.
I think heavy infantry should not be carrying big bags of javelins, just not remotely historically accurate.
 

Dearmad

Veteran
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I think heavy infantry should not be carrying big bags of javelins, just not remotely historically accurate.
They carried *one* (That's all you need)... that was enough to strip the line of most shields. In fact a pilum could go through a shield and pierce the dude holding it in one go.

 

LordKay

Recruit
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How about offering 2 types of shields? A wood/hide based shield (like the ones ingame atm) that are lighter and break quickly, and steel-plated shields that take much more of a beating.

As it stands, I don't think making all shields easy to rip apart is a good idea. Lighter shields, yes, but the option for tougher shields (at the cost of slower movement) should also be available.
 

King Yngvar

Squire
WBVC
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Not against melee they shouldn't. Otherwise infantry vs infantry battles will end too quickly
Increasing effectiveness of armor should counter that a bit.

I would agree in general, but in the current state ranged units are already overpowered. If anything shields should get a buff on their size to act as a counter. Nothing wrong with modding it in of course, to each their own.
Increased armor values could counter that ranged overpoweredness. Arrows could also be set to cut, they should basically just bounce off when hitting heavy armor.
 

TomaSkTemplar

Regular
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deflections should happen too, not all javelins should have the ability to stick to shield. Deflections off armor if energy is too low. Like from walls.

currently all bolts seem to do blunt damage

threoing axes do Invalid type ...
 

Alenovic

Regular
WB
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The pilum was designed as a one shot shield killer. So I'll let 3 javelins suffice to simulate that.

So why in this game can I have 40 javelins in my shield and laugh it off.

Anyone know where I could mod the damage javelins (or any weapons) do to shields? I'm sensing this and spears need a rework for me to have fun.
The pilum shouldn't be able to break a shield.. instead the pilum was historically designed to PIERCE the shield (or armor), instantly killing or wounding the bearer really bad. But I can see why the shield would break in the game.. as a pilum of 2 meters that is sticking right through the shield is not really practical to be used again. The downside is that pilums are really heavy (between 2-5 KG) and could be as tall as 2 meters. really **** to carry them.. Would slow an marching army down enourmously. Imagine having 15 KG of (3 Pilums) on your back... I would be done for before the battle even started.

Shields should be majorly nerfed in general, they take way too much effort to break, which in return reduces infantry killing power dramatically.
I take from this that you never actually tried breaking a simple wooden shield, let stand a well crafted one... It does TAKE A LOT OF EFFORT. Especially from arrows. you could shoot 100 perfectly aimed arrows and it wouldn't break... it would just act like a sponge, and make the shield actually more dangerous because you could stab someone to death or gravely injuring somebody just by a shield bash.

That said, having the right iron headed (heavy) arrows and a long bow you would be able to PIERCE through an simple shield without breaking it.. same effect as with a well made and well thrown pilum. (however pilums were also very heavy and clumsy. Having 2-3 pilums on your back is just as having as a sack of bricks.
 

Dearmad

Veteran
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The pilum shouldn't be able to break a shield.. instead the pilum was historically designed to PIERCE the shield (or armor), instantly killing or wounding the bearer really bad. But I can see why the shield would break in the game.. as a pilum of 2 meters that is sticking right through the shield is not really practical to be used again. The downside is that pilums are really heavy (between 2-5 KG) and could be as tall as 2 meters. really **** to carry them.. Would slow an marching army down enourmously. Imagine having 15 KG of (3 Pilums) on your back... I would be done for before the battle even started.



I take from this that you never actually tried breaking a simple wooden shield, let stand a well crafted one... It does TAKE A LOT OF EFFORT. Especially from arrows. you could shoot 100 perfectly aimed arrows and it wouldn't break... it would just act like a sponge, and make the shield actually more dangerous because you could stab someone to death or gravely injuring somebody just by a shield bash.

That said, having the right iron headed (heavy) arrows and a long bow you would be able to PIERCE through an simple shield without breaking it.. same effect as with a well made and well thrown pilum. (however pilums were also very heavy and clumsy. Having 2-3 pilums on your back is just as having as a sack of bricks.
They didnt march with them on their backs,they transported them in the wagon trains. Common sense man. The Romans only marched with then when battle was immanent.

And as you said, in the game breaking the shield would substitute for making it functionally useless. The wobbly unwieldy device attached to the shield makes it worthless, if it didn't pierce it and already wound.

ive chopped probably more wood in my life than many here, stop with the personal assumption as if they informed the idea. They don't. Basic warfare history does. I'm not making that argument. If you read my post the point is the shield is unusable, not shattered. That's just the game mechanic.
 

Alenovic

Regular
WB
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They didnt march with them on their backs,they transported them in the wagon trains. Common sense man. The Romans only marched with then when battle was immanent.
I know this, but still before an battle starts, it could take hours... Its dead weight you carry. And believe me before a battle start you are not gonna take those pilums just 5 minutes before the battles starts out the wagon. You certainly do this a day or so before a battle. I do understand that during long marches the armor and other gear is either carried on wagons and horses or on your back.

But lets assume that you just received you pilums, the dead weight should slow these soldiers down, enourmously (until thrown)

ive chopped probably more wood in my life than many here, stop with the personal assumption as if they informed the idea. They don't. Basic warfare history does. I'm not making that argument. If you read my post the point is the shield is unusable, not shattered. That's just the game mechanic.

One of my hobbies is chopping wood, I also need it to warm my house so I chop at least 1 cubic meter of wood each year. So i know what I'm talking about.

If you got a decent axe (definitely 2 handed), the only way to break a shield (not guaranteed) is if you hack from over year head, side strokes will definetely not work, or perhaps a lucky shot now and then on a weak shield. Moving the shield or absorbing the hit would also stop the shield break. Because hitting a piece of wood that is stuck or pressed against something hard is easy.. also dry wood is easy to hack,., but wet wood, or wet wood against a muddy or soft underfloor (like an arm and body) just absorbs the hit. The chance of you axe getting stuck in wet wood is really high. Especially in combat situations

If you do hack into the shield the chance is high 60%+ that you lose your axe which get stuck in the shield, and if so, then hopefully you are lucky and pierced the arm of the wearer. if not you just lost your axe.

No chance of doing this with simpel arrows. Also extremely difficult to do with sword or spear.
 
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