SP Musket Era [WFaS] English Civil War

[YourStepDad]

Haha. Well, I thought that was the reason.

Green isn't bad, but isn't there perhaps a more neutral color? Like perhaps brownish, as if still written on pergament, as many of the books and manuscripts in that age were, or truly black and white?

It doesn't really matter and it is good at it is, its just me being perfectionistic and nitpicky.

 

[mokrygorky]

Ah interesting, it would be nice if they were a minor joinable faction - would be great to be able to join them, or the border reivers and such.

 

[YourStepDad]

Okay I have to absolutely stress it once again, and this time with confidence.

Dazzer is wrong when it comes to saying "musketeers will sometimes not shoot, thats a vanilla wfas bug"

No. It is not. Or maybe it does happen, but this is definitely not it. This is a pervasive bug that doesn't seem to go away in any siege that I have. Can you please remove PBOD in your test version or something to try to eliminate the culprit? It may not be PBOD, but I have great suspicion that it is.

There is definitely something specific to this mod that is breaking the musketeers, no matter what command I give them, they will just stupidly block with their guns instead of shooting. Maybe removing blocking from guns altogether would stop this? (The maker of csatadi mod has also done this, and maybe this is why, if Dazzer is right after all). But from what I gathered, it only occurs when other troops are very close.

Spoiler: 1

Spoiler: 2

Spoiler: 3

They're evidence but this is also an amazing sight to behold. Would have been even better under better lighting and if the musketeers were doing their job. Sadly Mount & Blade is not kind to the battles on screenshots. It is a lot more spectacular in motion.

It is also worth noting that this siege was a defense of the parlaiment held town of Lincoln, assaulted by Royalists, and defended by combined forces of a handful of residents, me and a bunch of Covenanters who made up the bulk of allied forces coming to our aid. It was spectacular, and exactly something I wanted to see happen in this mod.


I'd also like to revert the unit selection shields to their vanilla size, at least optionally. It is much too hard to distinguish friend from foe this way a lot of the time, unless you were aiming for that.

p.p.s I like the Parl. Cuirassiers, but is there also a variant with black armor, tassets and armets in the game at all?

Spoiler

p.p.s. I had a small idea/suggestion after seeing all of the castle campaign map models, and how they look anachronistic and old, which I really like. I haven't really researched it but were any of the old 11th/12th/13th/14th/15th century castles ever used for military purposes in this period, or were they just residences at this point?

It would be cool to see some soldiers defending an old castle, perhaps one from native Warband or some mod, and add some variety. People might go "oooh, this is an old castle, unlike the contemporary ones" and would bring some flavour and variety to the game. I just am not sure to what extent this would be bending historical accuracy, but given that sieges in WFAS are already obviously not realistic portrayal of the sieges in the 17th century... what do you think?

EDIT 3:
Tested it some more. From a sufficiently far range (however it is a range much too far away) they shoot normally, but relatively up close they derp around indecisively. These screenshots should further demonstrate that aptly:

Spoiler

Spoiler

You cannot really see opposing troops moved in really quickly, but most of the soldiers in the second picture are blocking left and right or reloading. Not one is shooting.

 

[Dazzer]

Okay I have to absolutely stress it once again, and this time with confidence.

Dazzer is wrong when it comes to saying "musketeers will sometimes not shoot, thats a vanilla wfas bug"

No. It is not. Or maybe it does happen, but this is definitely not it. This is a pervasive bug that doesn't seem to go away in any siege that I have. Can you please remove PBOD in your test version or something to try to eliminate the culprit? It may not be PBOD, but I have great suspicion that it is.

There is definitely something specific to this mod that is breaking the musketeers, no matter what command I give them, they will just stupidly block with their guns instead of shooting. Maybe removing blocking from guns altogether would stop this? (The maker of csatadi mod has also done this, and maybe this is why, if Dazzer is right after all). But from what I gathered, it only occurs when other troops are very close.

It is a vanilla bug, as I clearly remember it happening sometime to me. It wasnt in the mod because I have played only one siege in it, and I havent paid much attention to musketeers there.
I also think its closely related to blocking. I guess I just expressed myself badly. In vanilla Warband or NW, you cant block unless in melee mode, which doesn't apply to Wfas muskets.
Imo sieges are overally kinda bugged. I remember that again in vanilla Wfas, if I told my musketeers to hold a position on a place I selected, they would totally ignore it and go defend a different place. Note this occured during attacking.

EDIT: Think this might be a bug. I noticed that cavalrymen equipped with pistols wont draw their swords if they get really close to the enemy, which is illogical. Even if they just ride straight into a musketeer, they will keep reloading their pistol which takes them ages, and usually get clubbed to death before they are able to fully reload it.

 

[YourStepDad]

If you are correct, then NPC you should try removing blocking abilities from guns. I know for a fact that Csatadi in his mod has done this exact same thing, and while I wasn't too thrilled, now I see why. I think he removed the ability of guns to be switched to melee mode altogether to fix this, and it worked.

 

[mokrygorky]

EDIT: Think this might be a bug. I noticed that cavalrymen equipped with pistols wont draw their swords if they get really close to the enemy, which is illogical. Even if they just ride straight into a musketeer, they will keep reloading their pistol which takes them ages, and usually get clubbed to death before they are able to fully reload it.

Yes this adds up to what I reported, so I am not the only one.

Btw. I like the change to the banners being small, it makes the game look kinda elegant. What I mean by that is that I don't have to turn banners off because this isn't too big and helps you identify soldiers just fine.

 

[Puddin_Tame]

Great mod, here are some bugs I've run into.

The armour Scottish Lowland Horsemen wear has shiny sleeves.
George Swetnam doesn't have a "we need to go our separate ways for a while" dialogue option.
While a member of the Scots Covenanters, I helped a one of our supply trains that was under attack by around eight Irish forager/scouts parties, and one Royalist scouts party.  In battle, my two cannons were on the enemy side.

 

[YourStepDad]

EDIT: Think this might be a bug. I noticed that cavalrymen equipped with pistols wont draw their swords if they get really close to the enemy, which is illogical. Even if they just ride straight into a musketeer, they will keep reloading their pistol which takes them ages, and usually get clubbed to death before they are able to fully reload it.

Yes this adds up to what I reported, so I am not the only one.

Btw. I like the change to the banners being small, it makes the game look kinda elegant. What I mean by that is that I don't have to turn banners off because this isn't too big and helps you identify soldiers just fine.

I think this is also an issue that was in Csatadi mod, that he fixed by giving 1-3 bullets to reiters. Still, I think he only did so to certain types of units. I have never noticed this happen. The AI rides around while reloading successfuly, and causes a significant deal of annoyance and damage that way. They never actually *engage* in melee nor stop to reload a weapon, but they can get surrounded by AI troops and so get butchered, but what I'm saying is the AI is smart enough to circle around without being illogically stuck in a way that they shouldn't. Can they run into troops which causes their death though? Absolutely, but they will never sit and let it happen, but the AI will try to escape.

Anyway that's what I've got from my observations. It may be that I missed it or it never happened to me.

 

[NPC99]

@YourStepDad there are options in the PBOD Preferences menu to disable PBOD or revert to Native AI with formations. However, I suspect you may be correct that the musketeer bug may result from the melee mode of muskets. I doubt such a change would be save game compatible, and it would be quite drastic. If I made such a change and sent it to you, would you be prepared to test it with a new game?
I can make an optional BRF available for anyone wanting to revert to the vanilla selection shield. I believe the black armour is only worn by certain Lords - not troops.

@efilist are there any mods with joinable minor factions and OSP code?

@Dazzer I’ll look into the cavalry melee weapons vs pistols - might be PBOD skirmishing - you could try disabling PBOD temporarily & see if it persists, that would help identify the source.

Great mod, here are some bugs I've run into.

The armour Scottish Lowland Horsemen wear has shiny sleeves.
George Swetnam doesn't have a "we need to go our separate ways for a while" dialogue option.
While a member of the Scots Covenanters, I helped a one of our supply trains that was under attack by around eight Irish forager/scouts parties, and one Royalist scouts party.  In battle, my two cannons were on the enemy side.

Added to the bugs list.

Edit - both George Swetnam (NPC4) and Sergeant Haze (NPC1) were excluded from going separate ways as they were necessary in WFaS quests. As those quests are disabled in ECW, I've removed those restrictions and the correction will appear in our next patch. Shiny sleeves is a feature of the vanilla WFaS diffuseA sleeves of a Scottish musketeer (i.e. not a specular highlight), which I pasted to the new armour.

 

[mokrygorky]

NPC99:

Maybe just making them have a color and a faction name(so basically not be regular outlaws) and some option to recruit them for money when you encounter them and have good enough relations.(You can increase relation by helping them in a fight for example.)

That would mean that it would be a good idea to maybe make some basic troop tree for them and maybe make a special recruiter for them in taverns.

That is just an unpolished suggestion though, it is not that easy to code, but also not very hard.

Cheers

 

[Dazzer]

NPC99:

Maybe just making them have a color and a faction name(so basically not be regular outlaws) and some option to recruit them for money when you encounter them and have good enough relations.(You can increase relation by helping them in a fight for example.)

That would mean that it would be a good idea to maybe make some basic troop tree for them and maybe make a special recruiter for them in taverns.

That is just an unpolished suggestion though, it is not that easy to code, but also not very hard.

Cheers

The thing is, it wouldnt make much sense. Clubmen werent mercenaries, they were people who armed themselves with anything that was available to them and went on to defend their homes. So instead of recruiting them from taverns, it would make more sense if they were recruited from villages. But I agree it would be great if you could get better relations with them and become their leader or something.

 

[mokrygorky]

I mean even border reivers and such - this way you could make friends and foes out of different minor factions, for RP purposes.
If you don't want to go deep, giving them their own faction and colour is enough.

 

[YourStepDad]

@YourStepDad there are options in the PBOD Preferences menu to disable PBOD or revert to Native AI with formations. However, I suspect you may be correct that the musketeer bug may result from the melee mode of muskets. I doubt such a change would be save game compatible, and it would be quite drastic. If I made such a change and sent it to you, would you be prepared to test it with a new game?
I can make an optional BRF available for anyone wanting to revert to the vanilla selection shield. I believe the black armour is only worn by certain Lords - not troops.

@efilist are there any mods with joinable minor factions and OSP code?

@Dazzer I’ll look into the cavalry melee weapons vs pistols - might be PBOD skirmishing - you could try disabling PBOD temporarily & see if it persists, that would help identify the source.

Yes. I would be willing. I'll also try disabling PBOD before that, then.

Also, the troop in question that is a basic cuirassier has been done in both Dazzer's excellent mod and in Csatadi mod, here's Csatadi's banner to give you an example of what they  should look like.

And I've read about cuirassiers in the English Civil War a great deal, and an Osprey book in fact portrays them to have been in black armor, the kind of which that I have posted, Arthur Haselrig's regiment to be more precise, who fielded two regiments of cuirassiers in full armor. The other source that I've read portrayed them in "white" armor, the kind they bear now, albeit with lobster-pot helmets.

Still, this bad boy below, minus his ornamented armor, is just absolutely perfectly archetypal representation of a cuirassier. I'd love to see them, as rare as existing cuirassiers.

Spoiler

 

[Scuba Steve]

Some great horses from Furok's Grim Age OSP.

Spoiler

Furok used a different horse skeleton, which improves the tail animation. I just have to work out how to port and apply that as well.

Edit: If a mod can only have one horse skeleton, I wonder why Furok's skeleton_bodies.xml had three. I'll try rescaling the Grim Age horses to work better with my vanilla WFaS skeleton and see if I can tweak its tail bone positioning for an acceptable compromise between both types of tails.

Edit2: Rescaling was enough, I didn't need to mess with the tail 2 bone. It's not perfect, but the horses still look great. 

Just curious, are these horses in? Haven't encountered them at all.

 

[NPC99]

Some great horses from Furok's Grim Age OSP.

Spoiler

Furok used a different horse skeleton, which improves the tail animation. I just have to work out how to port and apply that as well.

Edit: If a mod can only have one horse skeleton, I wonder why Furok's skeleton_bodies.xml had three. I'll try rescaling the Grim Age horses to work better with my vanilla WFaS skeleton and see if I can tweak its tail bone positioning for an acceptable compromise between both types of tails.

Edit2: Rescaling was enough, I didn't need to mess with the tail 2 bone. It's not perfect, but the horses still look great. 

Just curious, are these horses in? Haven't encountered them at all.

Heavy hunters have only been issued to Royalist Lifeguards and Parliamentary Cuirassiers. They are also ridden by a few AI Lords.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Heavy hunters have only been issued to Royalist Lifeguards and Parliamentary Cuirassiers. They are also ridden by a few AI Lords.

Are they lootable/buyable?

 

[NPC99]

Heavy hunters have only been issued to Royalist Lifeguards and Parliamentary Cuirassiers. They are also ridden by a few AI Lords.

Are they lootable/buyable?

They're not in shops, but can be looted.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Awesome, looking forward to getting my hands on one. 

 

[Dazzer]

Would it be possible to have costs for recruiting your own pikemen and musketeers lowered? I find them ridiculous. 2500 for 5 musketeers who have almost the same stats as Veteran Royalist Musketeers, who could cost about 500 if they could be recruited in 5 (they are 300 for 3)
Sir Marmaduke is in need of some fresh recruits but sadly his trade is going downhill

 

[NPC99]

Would it be possible to have costs for recruiting your own pikemen and musketeers lowered? I find them ridiculous. 2500 for 5 musketeers who have almost the same stats as Veteran Royalist Musketeers, who could cost about 500 if they could be recruited in 5 (they are 300 for 3)
Sir Marmaduke is in need of some fresh recruits but sadly his trade is going downhill

I'll add it to the requests lists. Meanwhile you could hack it to satisfy Sir Marmaduke. Edit menus.txt and search for mno_rec_regimental_musketeer and change the two red costs.

Spoiler

mno_rec_regimental_musketeer  4 1633 2 1224979098644774912 648518346341351424 30 2 1224979098644774912 5 2149 2 1224979098644774913 360287970189639680 30 2 1224979098644774913 2500  Recruit_5_customisable_musketeers_for_your_own_regiment.  7 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189640999 5 1529 2 360287970189639680 2500 521 3 1224979098644774912 144115188075856234 26 2105 2 1224979098644774912 5 2112 3 1224979098644774912 -100 100 501 3 144115188075856234 26 1224979098644774912 1106 1 1585267068834415310

For pikemen - search menus.txt for mno_rec_regimental_pikeman and change the two red costs.

Spoiler

mno_rec_regimental_pikeman  4 1633 2 1224979098644774912 648518346341351424 30 2 1224979098644774912 5 2149 2 1224979098644774913 360287970189639680 30 2 1224979098644774913 3750  Recruit_5_customisable_pikemen_for_your_own_regiment.  7 1610 3 648518346341351424 360287970189641000 5 1529 2 360287970189639680 3750 521 3 1224979098644774912 144115188075856234 26 2105 2 1224979098644774912 5 2112 3 1224979098644774912 -100 100 501 3 144115188075856234 26 1224979098644774912 1106 1 1585267068834415311

NB - for text edits make sure you use a decent editor like Notepad++ and don't introduce any line breaks - each line of code needs to stay as a single line however long it is (i.e. not as it appears in the spoilers where I have broken it down for easier communication).