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Sahran
Grandmaster Knight
Oh of course. Every NPC is going to be renamed to a suitable name for their respective culture. King Priamos instead of Count whatever of the Rhodoks, Shahenshah Kai Kavus and the famous hero Rostam in Persia, and so on.
Odysseus and all the Mycenaeans won't be around until 2.0 assuming we add the Achaeans. But you'll have a wide cast of the famous Trojans and Allies. Hektor, Paris, Priamos, Sarpedon of Lykia, Aeneas of the Dardanians, and so on.
Odysseus and all the Mycenaeans won't be around until 2.0 assuming we add the Achaeans. But you'll have a wide cast of the famous Trojans and Allies. Hektor, Paris, Priamos, Sarpedon of Lykia, Aeneas of the Dardanians, and so on.
Lily-Livered River Pirate
Sergeant Knight at Arms
This mod looks amazing and is exactly what I'm looking for.
One question, hope it's not been covered already : will battles be fast and hectic as they are in Native, or slower, more deliberate?
One question, hope it's not been covered already : will battles be fast and hectic as they are in Native, or slower, more deliberate?
Sahran
Grandmaster Knight
I can't say for certain, since we haven't established a very specific formula for how we want to stat armor and items. I know I personally want spears to be really deadly (Matched by their breaking), Ritter mentioned a general wish for slightly less accurate weaponry, and I know I'd like to see armor and shields made heavier which I think has an impact of making troops slower too.
Ritter Dummbatz
Grandmaster Knight
So far I didn't notice an advantage in not having heavy armed troops. The only exception would be the lighter troops using bows but even that doesn't help them much if forced to retreat continoulsy and as soon as the melee starts you better have the heavy armored troops on your side. This is pretty much my main argument against the whole talewords engine. Somehow everything comes down to armor and preferably a horse.
Sahran
Grandmaster Knight
Ritter Dummbatz said:
They do a better job than Total War in making lighter infantry more relevant, but that's true. I do remember back in SOD a great experience of bringing my Prussian riflemen to fight the Ottomans in a really rugged and forested territory and we got our asses whupped.
That was in the context of rifles, but I think once we go to a 2.0 world map it might be possible to make sure lighter infantry centric areas (Levant, East Anatolia, North Iran) very rugged and hilly. In those circumstances you actually can have horses be a bane rather than a boon.
Ritter Dummbatz
Grandmaster Knight
Yes, horsemen in difficult terrain is another story. But the advantage of a light armored dude vs. a heavy armor dude in such a terrain doesn't pay off. Only if armed with ranged weapons but even then with every shoot he does the heavy guy gets closer. You can of course make them move so damn fast that even if the light guys shoot the heavies don't manage to get closer but this looks kinda weird and you will curse the day when you are the heavy armored guy running after them. 
Hard to find a good solution to this with this kind of AI that can't combine the armor type used and the will to survive.
Well, I posted because of these posts:
The AI has been changed and combat does take longer but in the end it is still the same mess like usual. And besides the fun of being able to run away or to move to a specific position in less time I don't really see a reason not to carry a heavy armor. As soon as a guy is after you need to run quite a while to get enough distance to shoot again... it's possible though, of course. But the chance to be killed by an random arrow or a horseman riding by is high enough to better have a better protection. Just my thoughts on that, of course.
Hard to find a good solution to this with this kind of AI that can't combine the armor type used and the will to survive.
Well, I posted because of these posts:
The AI has been changed and combat does take longer but in the end it is still the same mess like usual. And besides the fun of being able to run away or to move to a specific position in less time I don't really see a reason not to carry a heavy armor. As soon as a guy is after you need to run quite a while to get enough distance to shoot again... it's possible though, of course. But the chance to be killed by an random arrow or a horseman riding by is high enough to better have a better protection. Just my thoughts on that, of course.
Ritter Dummbatz
Grandmaster Knight
Thinking in native terms I guess those armors will still have about 40 points of protection. It's good enough.
Sahran
Grandmaster Knight
kuauik said:hey,but what is heavy armour in Ancient times?top tier units of Babylon,Assyria,Persia should wear scales,thats the best armour in these times i think
Pretty much. At least how I was thinking of approaching equipment the basic lowdown, with exceptions to the rule was:
Tier 1 - no armor, no helmet.
Tier 2 - No armor, helmets.
Tier 3 - Light armor usually (Linen, leather)
Tier 4 - Scale armor, lamellar armor, cuirasses.
Tier 5 - If applicable, heavier scale armor or lamellar armor.
In terms of the abundance of armor, I think the goal would be Assyria followed by Persia followed by the Trojans followed by everyone else.
Babylon, at least from my own personal conception, would actually be very light in armor save for their Qurubuti (who'd wear the snazzy full lamellar and helmet and such) since they lacked the standing armies of Assyria's Kisir Sharruti or the Persian's Sparabara/Takabara. We can change that of course.
Trojans of the Troad would be well armored but 2/3rds of their nation (Thracians and Phrygians/Assuwans) wouldn't.
For the Israelites the Philistines' have the most armor, then Phoenicians, then Israelites, then Aramaeans.
Scythia probably has the heaviest horse but the lightest foot. Egypt would be fairly light.
A preliminary statting approach I was thinking was:
Naked or very light clothing = X<10
Thicker clothing or furs or whatever = 10<X<20
Linen or Leather strips (segmented) = 20<x<30
Thick Linen or Leather (Tube and Yoke Cuirass, Quilted) = 30<x<40
Then I wasn't sure about Bronze vs Iron. You'd think Iron is better than bronze, but:
1) Bronze remained the dominant material for armor, much longer than weaponry. Assyria used iron helmets probably more due to the abundance of iron, since they also used bronze lamellar. Since Bronze is much more expensive to acquire, this means either the capacity to make iron into large protective pieces wasn't possible, or it wasn't as good.
2) I've heard people suggest bronze had better metalurgy than Iron for awhile longer.
So the lesser of the two would be cast as the 40-50 range, the better of the two cast in the 50 to 60 range. And this doesn't consider other factors to add bonuses to armor - an armor with sleeves half or fully protected would get more bonus than one with no sleeve protection.
To give you an tangible idea of all that mumbo jumbo:
1) Shemite (Semitic) Peasant would be X<10
2) Persian Bandaka would be 10-20
3) Egyptian Menfyt would be 20-30 (I think)
4) Sparabara would be 30-40
5) Kisir Sharruti would be 40-50 (if bronze is inferior)
6) Arstibara would be 50-60 (if iron is superior)
Ritter Dummbatz
Grandmaster Knight
Now, with a protection of 50 - 60 points the naked ones better have good weapons.
Ritter Dummbatz
Grandmaster Knight
I can already see the message in the left corner
David hits Goliath for 0 points of damage...
David hits Goliath for 0 points of damage...
Sahran
Grandmaster Knight
Ritter Dummbatz said:I can already see the message in the left corner
David hits Goliath for 0 points of damage...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIHGtf_2xkM&feature=related
David of the Israelites said:
Since I'm too lazy to photoshop a mimic of the Counterstrike Headshot text.
Ritter Dummbatz
Grandmaster Knight
Hehe, I can always do a neat script checking for names like "David" or "Golitath" if all else fails.
Sahran
Grandmaster Knight
Not an official policy idea, but given the triumvirate is busy with their respective fiefs, would anyone be interested in helping us by doing faces for the various lord NPCs?
Assuming Kuauik and Ritter check off on the idea, you would:
1) Be sent a package of just the face/skin files.
2) You run the game in edit mode, create faces in the editor and then copy and paste the ID for them here.
Fairly broad scope for creativity, although in some cases there'd be criteria (All Assyrians/Babylonians with Dark hair, certain figures with headwear that'd show hair requiring dark hair too).
If we do end up doing a private, in house Beta, participating would certainly guarantee you a spot in that. But this isn't official policy until Kuauik and Ritter check off on it, it was just food for thought. No way in hell am I going to be able to do faces on top of the rest of my stat-monkey work. I'll probably cover the big dogs like Hektor and Rostam, but the rest I can't fathom trying to do.
Assuming Kuauik and Ritter check off on the idea, you would:
1) Be sent a package of just the face/skin files.
2) You run the game in edit mode, create faces in the editor and then copy and paste the ID for them here.
Fairly broad scope for creativity, although in some cases there'd be criteria (All Assyrians/Babylonians with Dark hair, certain figures with headwear that'd show hair requiring dark hair too).
If we do end up doing a private, in house Beta, participating would certainly guarantee you a spot in that. But this isn't official policy until Kuauik and Ritter check off on it, it was just food for thought. No way in hell am I going to be able to do faces on top of the rest of my stat-monkey work.
I'll probably cover the big dogs like Hektor and Rostam, but the rest I can't fathom trying to do. 
