SP Viking Conquest Balance Mod 13

[Plasquar]

Thank you for the suggestions!
I do kill some bandits off camera from time to time to get some XP and money.
The high difficulty increases the immersion so far. Some of the bandit fights are challenging (especially the "Kill troublesome bandits" quest) but due to the difficulty it really feels like I'm in the Dark Ages.
Combined with the sinister graphics it really feels immersive. Permadeath is obviously bad, but even if that happens I will play to that exact spot again and cut all of that out. So for the viewers it will be seconds, while it may be hours/days for me.
Challenge is a good thing and so far the challenge is perfect. I don't know if you changed the balancing in the starting area (Friese) as well but so far it feels perfect.

 

[Tingyun]

I do kill some bandits off camera from time to time to get some XP and money.

The main thing will be troops. For a certain upcoming mission in a village, you will need some tier 3 guys, or else a very large force of some 60 Tier 2 troops.

If you get lucky and find Frankish cavalry or Svear Warriors for hire in the tavern, grab them, they are awesome.

Basically, the only advice I have, is there is no time limit—feel free to wander off and build up whenever you like, and always prepare to be 3x as strong as the storyline tells you.

Challenge is a good thing and so far the challenge is perfect. I don't know if you changed the balancing in the starting area (Friese) as well but so far it feels perfect.

Honestly, it is random, and you got somewhat lucky.

The game is rolling random numbers, weighted towards lower numbers, each time it generates bandits. Most of the time it ends up like in your playthrough, but a few players will find multiple 100 member bandit bands wandering Frisia, and a few will find nothing but tiny little parties.

I am a fan of Roguelike games, so I like an objective world that keeps the player on his toes and creates emergent stories through RNG.

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

I'm interested if mod make changes tp royal campaign because I like to start as a king and managing my kingdom

 

[Tingyun]

Hi Arnulf!

The mod is designed equally to improve all sandbox campaign settings. It should work great for your Royal campaign!

You might consider using "average" campaign AI for a Royal campaign instead of "good." The reason is on "good" campaign AI, Warband (this applies to all mods) makes the player kingdom lords incompetent. That is fine when the player is a hero who has built up a huge personal army that is to be the focus of the campaign, but if you want a satisfying cooperative politics experience with your lords, "average" campaign AI will work better.

Good luck!

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

Thanks tingyun, I am new to M&B but I like so much mods than native

 

[Tingyun]

Thanks in large part to Plasquar’s series, Balance Mod is currently ranked 85 out of 33,399 mods hosted on ModDB.

https://www.moddb.com/mods/vc-balance-mod

We made the top 100!

I am sure we’ll slip back to 300-400 within a few days, so I’ll enjoy it while it lasts

 

[Tingyun]

2 new optional add-ons available and posted on nexus. Both are fullfilling user requests, and have not been playtested by me, but should work.

- The first optional add-on makes all the things that normally affect companion morale not take effect (or be forgiven right away). So they will still complain, but it won't have any practical effect.

- The second optional add-on restores vanilla VC default ship capture chance. So around 10% rather than Balance Mod's 99%.

Neither fits my personal preferences, but I like to help players play in whatever way they judge most enjoyable, so the downloads are there if you want them.

BTW, if anyone is wondering why I changed to near certain ship capture in Balance Mod, here is my rationale: https://www.reddit.com/r/mountandblade/comments/7rv1tk/vc_balance_mod_20_release_looting_rework_and/dt06lr1/

(a couple of things in that analysis have changed in recent versions of balance mod, like fixed the vanilla Warband kill-order loot glitch, fixed effects of loot options, and eliminated the higher prices for selling equipment in bandit camps/refuge)

 

[jelf]

Spoiler

Just wondering, would using the tweaks tool affect the edits you made in the main module?

The only one I can think of, is if you use the tweak for village defenders, then you will be opting into that system for generating them rather than Balance Mod’s system. The main difference there would be prosperity influences defenders heavily in Balance Mod’s version, and some differences in unit types, but the tweaks version is a great system as well.

Also of course you’d have to manually enable any tweaks you want, even ones that Balance Mod includes in the default version (see the 2.0 changelog for the list)

E.g., if I changed TWEAK_LOW_LEVEL_UNITS_ARE_COWARDS = 0 to 1, would it affect the edit you made 8.0 about low-level units routing? Or alternatively, if I left TWEAK_LOW_LEVEL_UNITS_ARE_COWARDS = 0 as it is, but used tweak tools for other tweaks, would it still override the 8.0 changes on low-level units routing?

It would not override Balance Mod’s changes and would work fine (the “coward” chance I removed is a seperate thing from the tweak, just shares the same name). However, it would add to Balance Mod’s changes, which already include making level more influential in courage and weakening overall courage (though both done in different ways than the tweak).

So together that might make low level units too cowardly, but it might also work great, you’ll have to test.

Also, is it correct that I should not copy module.ini into app folder, but should only merge it when the generated module.ini?

Hmm, I am not aware of any tweaks affecting module.ini, so you would probably be fine just copying over the included one. But to be safe, always winmerge compare just to make sure, for all text files, is the safe strategy, because there could easily be some that do affect module.ini that I just am not aware of.

Mission_templates.txt is the included text file I’d be more worried about, as that text file is very sensitive to changes, one shift somewhere and the whole thing sometimes changes. Since the only two text tweaks in that one are doccinga keep your horse and town/castle sneaking in keep equipment I’d probably either Ctrl f for them and just merge over those two changes or forget about them entirely.

I think the morale tweak will change missions templates, so that will be one to watch. You could easily just forget about Balance Mod’s two text tweaks for it, 99% of the Balance Mod changes to the file are done properly in the module file, I just hadn’t got around to transferring those two old tweaks over, as they still date back to the stuff I did before I started properly editing the module system (way back in the 1.0 version). Just too little time and too many new things to do.

Probably your tweaks won’t affect module.ini, troops.txt, itemkinds1.txt, or parties.txt, so you’ll probably be safe to copy them over, but always best to winmerge to do a quick check first.

Thanks for the reply Tingyun!

Btw, is it possible to add lord and lady personalities into the Notes section for Viking Conquest, like they did in Prophesy of Pendor? Given that there are so many lords in Viking Conquest, it is a bit hard to keep track of the personalities for the lords for every new playthrough. 

Also, can I use the no morale drop addon with Module files for VC Tweak Tools?

 

[Tingyun]

Hi jelf!

Yes, in fact Zakarum did add those notes into his family mod. That, along with his king families and matrilineal transmission of family relationships (to cover the sons of Ragnar and Rhodri), I am interested in importing into Balance Mod in a future version.

I used to be a little more hesitent about the possibility of problems from king families, but recently I stumbled across a mod built upon the Viking Conquest system (Age of Arthur, at ModDB) that also has king families. I sent the creator a message asking if she ran into any issues that needed solving in testing, but haven’t heard back yet. At least, she seems to have gotten it working, and probably there are no issues.

If I hear back from her, or if Zakarum releases a text compiled version for testing for either vanilla VC or Balance Mod, then I will be excited to merge those parts of his mod into a future version.

The only reason I didn’t merge his notes changes is the time efficiency of merging everything all at once. So they will come (just not soon, because I'm on break).

Yes, the no morale drop add-on can be used even if creating your own version, but you should use winmerge to compare to ensure that your personal tweaks haven’t altered anything else in the same file, just like you do for the included mission_templates text file and such. For the happy companions file, it should only consist of a single change, a number 110 changing to 90000.

 

[Tingyun]

If anyone has used the happy companions optional add-on, and can confirm it works, let me know. As I noted I didn’t have time to playtest it, so I’d appreciate the confirmation to be sure.

 

[DaimyoFrost]

Not sure if this is the mod's doing, but I can't seem to hire Caio from the old romantic anymore. Upon completing his quest, he gives me a generic Briton warrior instead of Caio. From what I read online, this is how you're supposed to get Caio. Am I missing something?

 

[Tingyun]

Hi DaimyoFrost:

Saw your post over on reddit, thanks for saying such nice things about the mod.

I checked into your issue just now, and I was able to recruit Caio as normal, using:

- sandbox, alternate slower renown VC balance mod version (which is in all relevant aspects identical to default version), no optional add-ons

EDIT: Caio also recruits fine with:

- storyline, alternate slower renown upgraded save from 7.0, no optional add-ons

I think that means the bug you experienced is not caused by the Balance Mod main versions.

Can you give full details on your version/add-ons/any personal tweaks you have done?

 

[DaimyoFrost]

Thanks for the reply tingyun, but the issue is resolved. Turns out I just had to travel on the world map for a few ticks before I got the dialogue to recruit him. I thought the old roman would give him to you directly. My bad .

 

[Tingyun]

New optional add-on at Nexus: unlimited reinforcement waves (all battles, sea, land, siege, storyline). Sieges should still switch to a streetfight when only a few men remain.

Not extensively playtested, this was made in response to user request at reddit. If anyone runs into any problems, let me know.

 

[toster]

Was one-shoted by throwing spear in the leg. That is harsh.
Even this unarmoured character was able to take two and still standing!

47 leg armour, 63 hp (16 str, 6 is), no tough trait, 8 hp crit, shield was up (i was in front of my guys trying to provoke some shots from svear vikings). Well, i can slightly raise my hp and leg armour, but this world became more dangerous. I was afraid only throwing spear in the face, not in the boot. Trying to fight without any fall, my record was 1.5 in-play years in VC.

Unlimited waves of reinforcement are welcomed, was trying to change it from tweaks topic in txt files, but no siege tweak was there for sure. Hate to loose siege battle with advantage in remaining forces. Is it possible to adopt reinfosements call script (i dunno where to get it, just saw option in some mod)?

 

[Tingyun]

Hi toster!

Throwing spears have higher damage in Balance Mod to compensate for their much lower ammo, projectile speed, and range. A spear going through your thigh could absolutely kill, though most of the time it won’t if you have high armor (you got unlucky, damage has a random element to it).

To protect against this, best thing is to have high weapon master skill, as weapon master operates as shield skill in VC, and consistent with shield skill in native Warband it will improve your shield coverage to defend against lower shots.

But in general, trying to provoke shots and waste enemy ammo in Balance Mod is pretty dangerous—more deadly basic throwing weapons (closer in overall performance to the Irish/Pict superior versions), better archery, more sling rocks, horses slow with damage, weaker leg armor, and on and on. As it should be I think, it was way too safe and easy to game the AI into wasting its shots before.


On reinforcement waves—the optional add-on changes it for everything, including storyline battles. If you want just sieges and normal battles, Kalarhan’s excellent VC Tweaks Tool has that option available, and will allow you to set the waves to whatever you personally prefer. The module files optional download for Balance Mod is offerred to be compatible with the Tweaks Tool for users who want to make use of it.

I’ll look into reinforcement behaviors more in the future, but I’m on a modding break right now, so 8.0 is the final version for at least 3 months, and possibly much longer, provided no bugs are found that would require a quick patch.

 

[toster]

Ok, thank you.

 

[Tingyun]

I'm uploading an alternate install extra challenge version to Nexus. I made it as a personal version for my new campaign, so only install it if you have similar preferences.

Almost everything in it is save compatible (only a few minor family/personality changes are not, and those don't matter). Very likely much of this will never make it into main mod (and at any rate any future main mod versions are many months away).



Alternate version contents:

Bandit lairs should now be much more challanging for low level characters to attempt. They will always have quite a few warriors. Players gets an additional 2 soldiers to bring (9 total including player), reflecting the significance of the number 9 in Norse mythology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_in_Norse_mythology#Nine 8.0's capping of loot shares independent of number of idle soldiers in player army is retained, but more loot shares assigned to 8 companions, and not voidable based on death (and if less people brought, loot reduced a bit to reflect inability to fully loot the hideout).

Includes slower player renown gain

players and companions now operate on same shield scale as ai (3 shield at 7-10 weapon master)

training T2-->T3 from refuge slowed, T1-->T2 sped up, result is T1 to T2 now is max 10 per week, T2 to T3 is max 5 per week, with high intelligence and training skill. T1 to T2 even more advantaged at lower intelligence and training.

unlimited reinforcment waves in battles. Siege battles should still switch to streets when most are dead.

removed keep horse in doccinga defense (with recent changes to improve more basic spear units, it was no longer needed, as the battle has become more reasonable)

made morale even more dependent on level, less random, and generally lower (continuing 8.0 morale changes)

changed troop xp requirements  a bit for some settings

mercenary mounted skirmishers made lower level, reducing cost

removed difference in wounding base chance between player and npc parties

Some prisoner sale price changes (smoothed out lower tier sale price between quality, as assuming they are all going to the galley, made any tier 5 units get much higher price, assumed they are the ones ransomed and have property to pay well, added some missing units from exceptions to special price, removed ransom broker premium over permanent slave sale prices, as assume most everyone is being sold rather than ransomed anyway, and slavers can ransom the few nobles/bodyguards anyway, adjusted special sale prices, removed bonus to sale price from low player honor (if anything a high honor player could provide better assurances of the prisoners obtained in ways that won't come back against the slave trader), changes how the max/actual calculations work as well as how trade and charisma affect them)

Added some set personalities (1 upstanding guranteed for each of the two weakest Briton kingdoms, a martial personality for Einarr based on the 1958 Vikings movie, Alfred the Great's wife becomes moralist, a west seax lord upstanding, a couple others adjusted)

Added some family relationships (Alfred the Great's mercian wife to her parents, and added an additional father/son relation to west seax to make the family trees there a little more interesting, added Einarr as son of elder Angantyrsson and transfered Einarr's mother to married to him from his brother), removed Ubba's son relation to aslaug, based on records and sagas not backing up any relation)

increased chance of ai initiating courtships

increased caravan escort quest rewards slightly

ladies allow x1.5 time to bring request jewelery/amber/etc

now requires 100 renown before a town mayor will entrust the player with kidnapped girl ransom money

reduced cooldown on some dynamic quests

ai lord ideal party size now mostly does not depend on player level, being set as if player was high level from beginning

reduced troop camp/refugre join battle distance (pick up the troops and share loot normally if you want them in the battle, and keeps them from joining when you don't)

changed deserter spawning formula for chance of small parties and cap on big

 

[toster]

Cool. Will try this one.

 

[Tingyun]

Thanks Toster! Let me know if you have any feedback or thoughts on it--especially on the morale changes. 8.0 main version already lowered morale a substantial amount, but since this is my personal version I risked experimenting a bit more with it and lowered morale even further. Still trying to figure out what works best, so I went with the more conservative limited changes in the main version.