TPW - Faction Preview: Samnite Federation

[Olafr]

Way to make me feel inferior, man. I am not a professor of archeology, I am nothing. My thoughts are worthless.

Of course I'm not saying your thoughts would be worthless, merely that in scientific questions a layman's opinion does not equal with the "expert's".

My point was to say I'm not at all convinced, that's my opinion. That's all.

There is always need for a little healthy scepticism.

Are there perhaps any reaction articles to this hypothesis? And peer reviews?

You should read about the subject first before asking for peer rewiews.

And I still say it's not necessarily a sign of homogenous widespread culture. Sure, it's cultural trade perhaps, but a few symbols do not a culture make. Also many of them may not be related, but rather independently emerged.

Look at this genetic map and decide it, we may talk about independent appearances in Eurasia?

http://www.michelangelo.cn/download/Magyars_genetics_genetika_r1a1a.pdf

Ancalimon (sorry, last time I talk about him) loves the sun wheel, for him it symbolizes Turks everywhere. But if you think about it, it's such a universal symbol - a circle, or a cross. It appears with the circle, but without the cross, vice versa, the cross has varying amount of arms...
It's not difficult to draw a circle after you came up with the wheel, if you look at the sun. It's not difficult to come up with a cross. That's the very basics of geometry.

You are absolutely right in what you say about the representation of the Sun, but, like any phenomenon or any concept with a sacral meaning, there are many ways to depict the Sun itself. The mode of representation from such a simple geometric base can be quite complex... and much more complex symbols exist.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/685/sunmp.png/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/triskele.png/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/spirals.png/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/638/stag.png/

The same is the case with the swastika, which appears from Central and Southern Europe to Siberia, South India and East Asia. This of course can not be coincidental (look at the map).

But I've read panTurkist articles written by an American geneticist for example. People want to present shocking hypotheses, go against the flow, think outside the box. (which is of course generally desirable)
And genuinely reasonable work can be misinterpreted and misused - that is very often the case with nationalists.

I guess in this case it comes that American geneticist found some kind of coherence in his research, but since he had no enough or wide-ranging knowledge about other sciences (as a geneticist), he didn't know it to what to associate his discoveries.

On the website of professor M. Naddeo you may read this in the introduction: The last two centuries have seen the best resources in terms of historical, archaeological and linguistic research devoted to emphasising the Indo-European identity of the old world.
However, Europe was not uninhabited before the Indo-Europeans came, as has even been suggested! What have we inherited from the first, indigenous, populations of Europe? Who were they? How did they live? Who did they worship? What language did they speak? What was their society, art and culture like?

The aim is to restore to the collective European conscience the heritage that has come from our earliest ancestors, so that we may all be equally and with good reason proud of the common Finno-Ugrian, Saharian and Indo-European origins of our civilisation.

Goddamit, is there a book about this already? Or is it summed up in an article or something? I don't want to leave you with just my worthless opinion, I'd like to actually read about the supposed evidence behind this.
Actually, my intent was not to disprove a hypothesis, because I'd have to spend more time on that. First up, I'd have to read the whole thing (which I couldn't for time reasons, also the article you linked is short and only hints at the ideas presented)

Of course he has some books just as other scholars researching on this field have books... If I could give you an advice, I would recommend these articles for perusal:

http://www.michelangelo.cn/download/paper_04_Eng.pdf

http://www.michelangelo.cn/download/honfoglalas_eng.pdf

http://www.michelangelo.cn/index.php?arguments=dynamic&idPagina=a90129bdd&preferredLang=uk (check the abstracts)

http://www.michelangelo.cn/download/Magyar_Genetika_Hungarian_Genetics.pdf

http://www.michelangelo.cn/index.php?arguments=dynamic&idPagina=dec2e2952&preferredLang=uk

I would add that the author is frequently describes these related populations as "Magyars", more often as "Hungarians", but this is due to the fact that these folks have no accepted name in useage, only denominations given by external observers like Greeks, Persians, Chinese; and that all the mentioned (related) folks, Sarmatians, Avars, Magyars, etc migrated back to the Carpathian Basin where they became what is now the Hungarian nation.

 

[ancalimon]

Yeah, it's not Hungarian nationalism at all.    Dream on.

You're right up there with Ancalimon, man.

No.

The fact that I think Turks shaped history to an extend that people can speak because of Turks doesn't change the fact that I'm not a PanTurkist (I don't want Turkey to get united with other Tür (Turanian) nations except Azeris (we are simply the same nation) and maybe Kazakhs (they are the ones who built Istanbul:Astanapol)) and I also don't like the situation and mindset of people living in Turkey.

Also I'm not the one who calls Indo-Europeans Turks.  The Tur people which migrated from India to Europe long ago today are known as Indo-European people. They got divided from the "Tur" people but were still called "Tür" back then as we can see from Ferdowsi's Shahnameh. Hungarians are among those people which populated "all of Europe" and built all of the first cities of Europe. Proto-Hungarians are among those that brought civilization to Europe. The name On-Ogur is a Turkic title and is just another way to say Oğuz.


There are many possibilities to what the name "OG" means. But we know what the Turkic "UZ" suffix (together with UQ) mean and UR should be the same as the Oguz one since the difference between OGUZ and OGUR is simply about dialects. Turkic "UZ" gives the word a plural meaning as in English US:WE:ARE... UR also gives the same meanings: ARE:WE:US  :::: We can clearly see how the English words  "ARE" and "US" came to be. It's also clear why people called the Ancient Greeks and Greeks which is another form of OGURUK once again meaning OGUZ or OGUR ((we are) OQ


They are the descendents of Uyghur people who had high civilization during the Prehistoric times. People created many myths like Mu and Atlantis regarding Uyghur.

You people think that I actually think that there was a Turkic ethnicity back then. You are wrong. It was a social class and it's highly possible that the first Turks which gave people around the world the title Turk no longer exist at all.


Why do I think that some powers want to steal and corrupt the history of Turks?  It's clear.  The Turks stopped some powers from realizing their imperialistic desires.
Turks are facing fascism even in their homelands like Southern Iran and it even started in Turkey itself.

 

[Kvaedi]

While I feel like jumping in the fray and arguing with Olafr, I don't think it will accomplish anything. It is clear he will not be swayed from his beliefs, no matter how unrealistic, nor will I or, I think, anyone else be convinced by his arguments.
I'll just say this: There never was, nor  will there ever be an ideal society.

Now I'll just talk about the pretty pretty pictures. They look absolutely great!

Although, the color on the shields is a little crazy. Were they really that...bright? I know they had dyes and paints, but were they so vivid?
(Don't get me wrong-they look amazing, just a little surprising.)

 

[Lynores]

Yes, those guys were colorful. Don't judge the developer's masculinity for that. Too bright to my taste though, I'll probably tone them down and tweak the texture for the next version.

 

[Kvaedi]

Yes, those guys were colorful. Don't judge the developer's masculinity for that. Too bright to my taste though, I'll probably tone them down and tweak the texture for the next version.

Hahaha of course not! Wouldn't judge the men wearing those bright colors either, I have a feeling that would be the fast track to getting a new spear implant for my face, were I alive in the time period....

 

[Olafr]

While I feel like jumping in the fray and arguing with Olafr, I don't think it will accomplish anything. It is clear he will not be swayed from his beliefs, no matter how unrealistic, nor will I or, I think, anyone else be convinced by his arguments.
I'll just say this: There never was, nor  will there ever be an ideal society.

I have to say you're right in that I believe in those what I sad, if I wouldn't believe in them I didn't waste my time to argue about it. You have the right to call everything unrealistic, however you've seen maps about genetics, hundreds of pictures of archeological findings, dozens of symbols and so on... but please let others to conclude by themselves, without your foretold judment.
It's a simple theory, like any other - of course not a perfect one - but is supported by all the disciplines without the need of any political backings, not like the Pan-Slavism, Pan-(Indo)-Europeanism, Chinese propagandism, Daco-Roman theory, etc.
For my part, I do not care much about what someone think about this subject. It only matters that many scholars working on this field from Italy through India to the USA to prove what I talked about.

I think a society which is without weapons, patriarchs and kings, slaves, where people cultivate the land and herd animals, use their potential to advance metallurgy, invent the writing... and not to wage barbaric wars against more civilised peoples, can be considered ideal, if not perfect.

 

[Bloodbeag]

is samnite federation including etruscans and how far does the map go east coz you could maybe have selucids.

 

[FrisianDude]

is samnite federation including etruscans and how far does the map go east coz you could maybe have selucids.

The Etruscans are a separate faction called the Tursanioi Dodecapoli, I believe. And there are no Seleucids, and can't be Seleucids not only because the map doesn't go east far enough but because the mod is set before Alexander the Great and the Seleucids as a faction was founded by Seleucos, one of Alexanders' generals/companions.

Edit; I changed "Dodephaloi" to Dodecapoli.

 

[vasul]

Here's some more about the Samnites and other enemies of Rome
http://www.roman-glory.com/02-04-01
http://www.roman-glory.com/category/vragi-rima
http://www.roman-glory.com/category/galereya