To yon owners of Helmets, or those knowledgeable there of.

[Austupaio]

Being a Mount and Blade forum, some of you might have seen the mod that has an 'inside the helmet' view. Star Wars Conquest also has it for Stormtrooper helmets and the like.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrConstantA#p/u/1/GqMjx-j6Lj8 (Bad example because he's wearing a funny helmet in this video, but I couldn't find another.)
I want the same for my rather large Minecraft project.

Spoiler

Unfortunately, the most similar thing to a helmet I own is a

Spoiler

which, needless to say, isn't the best reference.

So my textures so far are entirely conjecture based and worse yet, I'm having a lot of trouble even getting what I want. I know the nasal needs to be in the middle of the screen but I'm having trouble getting it there without blocking too much.

I've seen that some of you own loads of the metal goodies and was hoping someone could stick a camera in a helmet or possibly give some insight as to what it should look like. Google images largely failed me.
Mostly, I'll be making two overlays similar to the following.

Can you generally see the rim of the Norman helmet? Prominently or hardly? How easy is it to see the nasal?
Exactly how much peripheral vision do you really have in a great helmet? Can you see the breathing holes? (Should I add them to overlay anyways for aesthetics?)

Any help would greatly appreciated.

Edit; and should it really be black? In good lighting I'd imagine you could still tell it was made of light metal.

 

[Seff]

The nasal helm I've worn was pretty big, and both brim and nasal were visible, though not disturbingly so. It was much less distracting than you'd think.

 

[HannibalTheCannibal]

You could make mockups out of cardboard (not the thick corrugated, the thinner kind). That''s what many modern armorers use to make their pattern anyways.

 

[MidnightWolf]

nasals and cross pieces block a lot. so if u want it correct theres a lot of the screen that needs to be black. hehe don't even try for a sallet even less

 

[AWdeV]

Thing about the picture here and the pictures of the warband-mods with vision-obscuring helms is that it always looks odd.
What I mean is that for example your picture looks as if the nasal is really tiny and actually quite some distance away because you wouldn't see it as clearly (I guess) if it were closer. It being right between the eyes really wouldn't "help" the visibility either.

Ofcourse I'm just basing all that bull**** on my finger in front of my nose so I'm not exactly reliable here.

 

[Austupaio]

Well these are what I have for now, I'll work on them more tomorrow.

Spoiler

 

[Skot the Sanguine]

Honestly I have a pretty firm position on this.  I own a Norman Helmet and a Great Helm (the latter seen in my avatar).  For all intents and purposes, you can't see the helmet when you wear them.  Mind you, the Norman Helmet I have possesses a wide nasal guard too.  So, whenever someone brings up the idea of a helmet view (as was done by some fan on the TES forums for Skyrim), I always argue against it. 

The thing you have to remember is that helmets were designed to provide protection but minimize obstruction of view.  People who have Great Helms might argue that it obstructs their view, but usually if these people are questioned as to where they bought their Great Helm, it is from some munitions grade place like Museum Replicas limited.  The Great Helm I own was built to my personal facial measurements, just like a knight would have had.  For this reason, the eye slits sit perfectly to my facial dimensions, ranging from eye height to eye spacing, etc.  Thus, when looking straight ahead  there is no obstruction of view and with left and right, there is virtually no obstruction of view.

I say there is virtually no obstruction of view when looking left and right because when you look left or right you will see the helmet with the eye opposite of the direction you are looking.  By this I mean, if you look left with your eyes, your right eye will see the center guard between the eyes while you left eye will not be obstructed, and visa versa.  The biggest impediment to vision for a Great Helm is up and especially down.  You can not look up or down very much in a Great Helm when using your eyes alone, you have to move your entire head.  Down is particularly limited simply because of the length of the helmet can cause the bottom of it to dig into your chest if you try to look down sharply, while up has no such limitation.  Thus, I find I physically lean over when I want to look down while wearing my Great Helm (by which I mean if I want to look at something near my feet).

This being said, when I wear the Great Helm I have learned to look mostly using my head and only using my eye movement for fine adjustments.  This has minimized the relatively little restrictions the helmet has.

The Norman Helmet has the same opposite eye restriction (put your fingers in front of your nose, even that can obstruct views in the same way when looking to the side), but otherwise it doesn't.  When looking ahead you just don't see the nasal guard.  You may see the rim but that is if the helmet is sitting low on your head.  That depends person to person, and generally I say a helm sitting low enough on the head for you to see the rim is not properly fitted.

Now....I also own four WW1 helmets (two German Stahlhelm, one German Pickelhaube, and one American helmet).  These you can see more when wearing than the other helmets namely because of the visors they have.  The fact that part of these helmets come away from the head makes them more visible to you.  Thus, the visor on the Stahlhelm and the American/British style helmet are slightly visible (not much).  This is also why I think that the Kettle Helm would be visible to someone wearing it...as the British/American helmet was based off that design.  I do not own a Kettle Helmet, so I can not confirm this though.

I hope this helps and I speak from experience wearing these types of helmets.

 

[Austupaio]

Thanks all, I'll close this for now. The tips were useful, now I just have to figure out how to balance the realistic with the gameplay.

 

[Majhudeen]

Helmets are for cowards.

 

[AWdeV]

*snip*

Well said. That's what I was trying to get at. Ofcourse, if a helm that doesn't fit properly (like, say, an Orcish helm on a Bosmer (seeing as Skyrim was brought up) then there'd be rather more obstructions, wouldn't there? Even a properly fitted great helm could have an effect but only if you'd try to look up or down and maybe sideways.

 

[FrisianDude]

Helmets are for sensible warriors.

Skot, now I wonder where you got your helmet?

 

[Amman d Stazia]

just for the sake of the Devil, and to Advocate his case....

the made-to-measure great helm (or any other helm) is what you pay a bucketload for at the armoury.  The piece of dented loot that you got from the Swadians you massacred last week, is not made for you, and the eyeholes are in the wrong place, and it pinches horribly at the back of the scalp....

so if you want real realism, looted helmets need to be really different to purchased helmets in terms of fit/visibility.  If you can't make that distinction, then CLOSED helmets like the great helm, sallet/visor, bascinet with faceguard, should be made non-lootable, on the grounds that they wouldn't fit anyone they weren't designed to fit.

 

[Skot the Sanguine]

Helmets are for sensible warriors.

Skot, now I wonder where you got your helmet?

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/Crusader_Great_Helm_MD-336.html

The Arms and Armour section has higher quality armor that can be fitted to your dimensions.  The link I provided is the one that is directly to the helmet I got.  I know I paid slightly over $400, but that is probably because I had a custom liner for it made (and chin strap).  The German Finger Gauntlets however have gone up in price a fair amount, so I am glad I got them when I did.  Good people to do business with.  Nice, respectful, and reliable.  Be prepared to wait half a year for the item though, but that is what custom measurements requires.

Also, I sent a PM after my last post (when the threat was locked for a short while) to Austupaio because I realized my post made it sound like you can't see absolutely any of the Great Helm when wearing it and looking straight.  However, what you can see is so minor that it is barely worth modeling.  You can slightly see the edge of the eye slits on the fringe of your vision.  The Norman Helmet I can't see anything of when I wear it (except when looking to the sides with my eyes).

Since I know the helmet doesn't show well in my avatar...here is one that you can see it a bit better and is a little more artistic.  Taken by Sergei Eisenstein 

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7183/swordsman3.jpg

 

[FrisianDude]

Ah, thanks for the answer and link. What about their chainmail section, do you have any of that? Is it good?

 

[Skot the Sanguine]

I had gotten my maille earlier on (well, except the chausses) from Museum Replicas Limited.  The Haubergon was actually my gateway drug...since I bought it because I always wanted one, and then decided "why not get the rest?"

Part of me wants to buy different maille with a tighter weave.  The stuff I gt from Museum Replicas Limited is riveted steel, but the damn coif hasn't lost its shine and patina (luckily the haubergon came a dull gray) and the weave is slightly less dense then I think appropriate.  Its a good buy for most people and is more affordable than a lot of other places.

The maille chausses I got from Icefalcon Armory http://www.icefalcon.com/  Unlike By the Sword, I only did business once with him (as it was the last piece I needed), but he too was good to do business with when judging from that experience.  I am currently looking for a person (and think I found a local saddler) to place the proper harness fittings and soles on the maille chausses.  In the photo I was wearing a pair of custom turnshoes (and by custom, I mean I sent the guy a picture from an Osprey book and he made them, and now carries the style as an option), but they don't fit right under the chausses.  Oh, and the chausses are full foot/rivetted steel, which is what made it so hard to find them until I saw Icefalcn carried them.

 

[Conall]

When I wore a great helm, I basically could only see what was in front of me. Vision wasn't as bad as I thought it would be be but I did have to turn my head to the side or up and down to see what was below or at the side of me.

 

[Frisicus]

Well these are what I have for now, I'll work on them more tomorrow.

Spoiler

About the helmet with the nasal plate, try this: have a rectangular piece of paper of circa 3x10 cm in your hand and keep it a the place normally the nasal plate would be of the helmet (in front of the nose). Now focus on an object a few meters away, f.i. a vase on the table, or an other object.

Even if you move the piece of paper closer or further from its position you will still be able to see the target you focus on. Though it might become a bit more vague if you place the piece of paper further from the nasal area, you will not loose sight on the target.

Currently in your gameview you won't be able to see any object that is in front of you, whether it is a few yards away or 20 yards. Somehow you should make the view in your game as to resemble the 'vague' while still having the ability to spot the item in front of you.