TO THE DEV TEAM: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HARD WORK OVER THE PAST DECADE. To the people ****posting ▽

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let's rephrase it like this, if you know nothing about developing a game you don't get to judge how long it should take for them to develop it.

Yet practically everyone knows the basics of game development. So practically everyone has the right to judge. Regardless though, the whole ideology is idiotic. Because people will judge wither or not they know anything about it. So even saying that "you don't get to because you don't know" is a complete waste of time.
 
The law won't see it the same way.

Uh...lots of countries have self-defense laws. Pretty sure the law does see a difference, but more importantly so does reality.

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I'm not saying people should not criticize, but that being civil and reasonable is necessary, and a lack of civility is not justified.
 
Yet practically everyone knows the basics of game development. So practically everyone has the right to judge. Regardless though, the whole ideology is idiotic. Because people will judge wither or not they know anything about it. So even saying that "you don't get to because you don't know" is a complete waste of time.
Hold-up. "Practically everyone knows the basics" is not even close to true, and even if it was knowing the basics is nothing compared to what these devs are doing and doesn't even begin to be relevant. I'm not saying you don't get to judge because yes I cannot control other people and it is human nature to judge. I'm saying that people should really try and not cave in to innate beastly human nature and try and have a head on their shoulders
Uh...lots of countries have self-defense laws. Pretty sure the law does see a difference, but more importantly so does reality.

::::

I'm not saying people should not criticize, but that being civil and reasonable is necessary, and a lack of civility is not justified.
This.
 
Uh...lots of countries have self-defense laws. Pretty sure the law does see a difference, but more importantly so does reality.

::::

I'm not saying people should not criticize, but that being civil and reasonable is necessary, and a lack of civility is not justified.


Just because you attacked someone back doesn't mean you are guaranteed self-defense by law. They can and could try you for assault as well.
 
I did it with no problem. Why can't you? And even if you can't at least have the ability to recognize it and not ****post. You're just admitting to being in the wrong with this

You think way to highly of yourself. It takes remarkably little for any human to fall back to their animal instincts.
 
You think way to highly of yourself. It takes remarkably little for any human to fall back to their animal instincts.
I can't help but think you're way way way too young to be having this conversation. I'd say you hold yourself far too low. That's the same argument that says rape isn't unethical because it's animal nature? Like are you good bro?
 
In what ways were you "heard", during the beta? Various suggestions and requests in high demand such as a dueling mode, which could have made it ten thousand times easier to test the game, were never implemented despite how easy it would have been. There seems to be a widely held belief among testers that they were not heard, so I'm interested in why you hold a different perspective from the one I've seen.


I must also disagree entirely with it being a privilege to beta-test. If you do a proper job of it, you don't just participate to the hobbyist extent which is fun, it's a literal job; they pay people wages to test games to this day. It has the nickname of being in the trenches, because the job is quite awful when taken to its logical extreme. Even with this beta some have written up reports thousands of words long for the sake of the game, making videos and arguing at length to make their points clear, and have likely put in thousands of hours by the end of it without feeling rewarded or "heard" for their efforts.

I distinctly dislike the idea of people rebranding work as a privilege, as that hearkens to very dark days indeed, where workers ended up owing their companies money for the "privilege" of working. Perhaps you consider it ridiculous to take these things seriously in the context of discussing games... but game companies are at the cutting edge of scamming people, with an abundance of controversies for the treatment of workers. So I consider it wise to not throw around words like it being a privilege to help someone.
 
I can't help but think you're way way way too young to be having this conversation. I'd say you hold yourself far too low. That's the same argument that says rape isn't unethical because it's animal nature? Like are you good bro?

I can't help but think that you're way to naive to think that humanity can control itself. Such a fantasy ideology. I did not say that anything was or was not unethical. All I said is that it takes very little for humans to become savages.
 
I can't help but think that you're way to naive to think that humanity can control itself. Such a fantasy ideology. I did not say that anything was or was not unethical. All I said is that it takes very little for humans to become savages.
Humanity not might be able too but individual humans can and it starts there. Holding your ideology only means humanity will never grow and stifles the individual human trying to make positive change. Incel or?
 
Humanity not might be able too but individual humans can and it starts there. Holding your ideology only means humanity will never grow and stifles the individual human trying to make positive change. Incel or?

Starts yet ends there. For the individual can't overcome the masses.
 
History is chalk full of individuals changing the masses. How do you think we went from stick and stones to cars? Cmon now you're just bull****ting and having fun
 
History is chalk full of individuals changing the masses. How do you think we went from stick and stones to cars? Cmon now you're just bull****ting and having fun

None of which has anything about controlling their animal instincts. Many have used savage animal like actions to change history.
 
I am disgusted with the amount of entitlement and anger towards the dev team for the state of single player campaign.

3. THE DEVS SAID THAT IF YOU WEREN'T OKAY WITH BUYING AN UNFINISHED GAME, DO NOT BUY
4. YOU DO NOT GET TO DECIDE WHAT "UNFINISHED" SHOULD MEAN. Who buys something with a "BUY AT OWN RISK" warning and then complains???
Point 3 and 4 are logically excluding.
 
In what ways were you "heard", during the beta? Various suggestions and requests in high demand such as a dueling mode, which could have made it ten thousand times easier to test the game, were never implemented despite how easy it would have been. There seems to be a widely held belief among testers that they were not heard, so I'm interested in why you hold a different perspective from the one I've seen.


I must also disagree entirely with it being a privilege to beta-test. If you do a proper job of it, you don't just participate to the hobbyist extent which is fun, it's a literal job; they pay people wages to test games to this day. It has the nickname of being in the trenches, because the job is quite awful when taken to its logical extreme. Even with this beta some have written up reports thousands of words long for the sake of the game, making videos and arguing at length to make their points clear, and have likely put in thousands of hours by the end of it without feeling rewarded or "heard" for their efforts.

I distinctly dislike the idea of people rebranding work as a privilege, as that hearkens to very dark days indeed, where workers ended up owing their companies money for the "privilege" of working. Perhaps you consider it ridiculous to take these things seriously in the context of discussing games... but game companies are at the cutting edge of scamming people, with an abundance of controversies for the treatment of workers. So I consider it wise to not throw around words like it being a privilege to help someone.

There's a difference between being heard by the devs and have the devs yield to the community demands in my book.
I have been heard because most of my questions and suggestions have been at least acknowledged. That doesn't mean I should expect TW to agree with them. They are the devs, they are entitled to have the final word. In the (very unlikely) event that the game will be a commercial flop, it's gonna be their responsibility and not ours.

As for the privilege part - I'm not sure what's your idea of work, but I haven't been imposed with a minimum hours per week, deadlines, targets. Doesn't sound like work at all, but if you think Bannerlord beta test is actual work, then by all means, don't do it. I wanna believe most people who took part used their spare time because they like the franchise and wanna contribute and improve it in order to have a better gaming experience. That is already a reward to me, even if I sunk many hours into it.
 
This is corporate simping in its final form. Taleworlds is not a cottage workshop making cute pottery. They are a corporation with a PR wing. You owe them nothing. "love" and "passion" also mean nothing when you read employee glassdoor reviews and realise that they suffer from crunch times, worker exploitation and egoistic management just like any other company.

I am actually a game developer, and I watched another game developer stream Bannerlord. Both of us were astounded at how bad everything was.
This, it's kinda hard to believe this has to be brought up to anyone in 2020.
 
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