Thrusting weapons (Specially spears) are so frustrating to use & easy to counter

[Qwertyman]

If you use spear/shield, don't go solo. Back up a swordsman, or stick with a couple of other spearmen. Wear light armour so you can move quicker.

true dat.

its all in playstyle,  dont expect to excell in areas where a sword would be better-  the spear is firmly in the support role amongst infantry, nothing more helpful than a guy at your back who can keep cavalry at bay, absorb hits with his sheild, keep enemy infantry on their toes- ready for a jab,  and stab your oponents in the gut every time they open up to attack. - all of this with minimal risk of team damage too.

 

[Diavolo]

I think that its most realistic if it was waay harder to block thrust attacks in general. All the other attack types can be blocked by putting the weapon flipped 90degress in between, however with a trust its nearly impossible. Just try it out with a friend. Take one broomstick each and try to block the thrusts. You will see that blocking a thrust requires you to be absolutely perfect with your timing or you'll get raped. (meaning you have to be able to strike away the spear)

To make things realistic, it could have been done so that spears only could be blocked by chamber blocks. However, then it also should be easier to sidestep, since that was the most usual way of "blocking" a thrust back in the days.

If spears were so crappy in the old days as they are in M&B, that they were only useful against cavalry, a lot less people would use them. However, most soldiers used spears. Hoplite (shield and pretty short spear) was one of the most usual solders there were.

 

[bubble]

The dmg is in comparison to other 2h weapons low, wheras long axes/glaives & Co. have almost the similar range to some spears their dmg output is more than double. If you take a spear in two hands without a shield the dmg is a bit better but still far behind the dmg output of other weapons, besides that just a single block can shut you down. Lower the dmg of the axe/glaives & Co. weapons a bit so people have actually to fight with more blocking tactic and not to one shot opponents that easy like we have now, it would be also more fair for 1h user.

 

[Qwertyman]

The dmg is in comparison to other 2h weapons is low aswell, wheras long axes/glaives & Co. have almost the similar range to some spears their dmg output is more than double. If you take a spear in two hands without a shield the dmg is a bit better but still far behind the dmg output of other weapons, besides that just a single block can shut you down. Lower the dmg of the axe/glaives & Co. weapons a bit so people have actually to fight with more blocking tactic and not to one shot opponents that easy like we have now, it would be also more fair for 1h user.

spears and 2handers are very diferent weapons with very diferent purposes.  2handers for example are the primary cause of melee cluster**** teamkills-  wheras spears are much more precise, great for an orginised defence.
also- a spears primary attack is the thrust, which deals pierce damage-  great for those tanking heavy troops,  and also good for stopping a charging horse in its tracks.

 

[bubble]

The purpose in the end is to send your opponent "to hell", doesnt matter how. If a spear/pike with thrusting animation can be shut down by just one block and their dmg is far behind in comparison to such axe/glaive & co counterparts and also 1h weapons,  i really wonder how this is balanced. Just get on the average public TDM/siege server, everyone knows which weapons dominate, no wonder most use always certain types of weapons, heck there are even weapon types which most even dont use or only as a backup weapon so they can play the superhero. I watched the movie from reapy with his 2h action on a TDM server, whereas the player has really good skill, the fights with other weapons are just not that easy.

 

[Qwertyman]

The purpose in the end is to send your opponent "to hell", doesnt matter how. If a spear/pike with thrusting animation can be shut down by just one block and their dmg is far behind in comparison to such axe/glaive & co counterparts and also 1h weapons,  i really wonder how this is balanced. Just get on the average public TDM/siege server, everyone knows which weapons dominate, no wonder most use always certain types of weapons, heck there are even weapon types which most even dont use or only as a backup weapon so they can play the superhero. I watched the movie from reapy with his 2h action on a TDM server, whereas the player has really good skill, the fights with other weapons are just not that easy.

I refer you back to my earlier post that states how spears are support weapons,  I myself can top leaderboards with the spear+sheild combo whilst defending a castle,  they are not for direct 1v1 fights,  you can hold a narrow corridoor single handedly for a long time with this combo, even if you dont score kills-  you can hold a ladder alone too,  since they cant get close.
in group combat, your long reach coupled with high pierce damage alows you to be ready to hit any enemy that opens up to attack- greatly benefiting your side.
not to mention spears being kick-ass against cavalry.

they are harder to use effectively than other weapons, simply because the techniques involved are very diferent.

 

[bubble]

The current weapon balance is just not optimal, thats why people use only certain weapons in massive fights 

 

[Qwertyman]

The current weapon balance is just not optimal, thats why people use only certain weapons in massive fights 

said people also get ****loads of teamkills

I personaly dont think spears need any kind of buff,  but being an avid user of them-  I wouldnt say no xD

 

[bubble]

There are servers without ff on, friendly fire is a something different. We talk about effectiveness about the weapons and the weapon balance, sorry to say is just crap currently for certain types of gameplay. So much i like the game, but why bother to try different weapon setups i.e. 1h+shield or spears when you suffer at the end and get finished. I know what you mean  , good servers should have FF on. I still try 1h + shield setup but to counter the weapon speeds (to get a hit in between your block) and  low dmg ouput with your little 1h weapon is just not satisfying. No spears/pikes should not get a buff except fixing the blocking problem, Iam also fine with the dmg output of 1h weapons but other weapons should have reduced dmg and maybe attack speed.

 

[Stryker]

Fight POM_Ravenstein with his spear + shield combo, then come tell us how spears are underpowered again. I consider myself a decent melee fighter--I'm usually within a few spots of the top in a rather competitive server--but regardless of where I am, what weapons or shields I'm carrying, what armor I'm wearing, or any other factor, Ravenstein still manages to find that magic "insert spear here for kill" spot. It usually only takes him 2-3 hits to kill someone, and he can pull it off even against some very skilled duelists.

Thus, it's not that the spear + shield combo is bad, or impossible to use--just that we haven't figured out exactly how to use them properly yet!

 

[bubble]

Common we talk about the average player not some who play hours every day and are highly above average skill, there will be always players which are better. When you watch the public TDM/siege servers you know what is going on, thats the current average gameplay. Duel is a totally different game style, you dont have much time in massive fights dont forget that, you have to kill fast otherwise the other members of your opponents team will get you. Well i really have nothing more to add, we are not satisfied with the weapon balance and if it get fixed alright if not well...we will stick with the mainstream setup i guess since its that much better. But the game would look more polished if players actually would use the diversification of the offered weapons and not just a handfull of weapon types.

 

[Diavolo]

well, I would say damage of spears is pretty balanced. They have a great reach, can be used with a shield (opposed to bardiches and such) and are great against horses. What I think needs to be changed is how easily they are blocked. Its just not realistic that people keep blocking thrusts off easier with a weapon than with a shield. If you have a shield (which is sort of super block machine) and encounter an enemy (or several if you like) with spears and shields, its actually a good idea to throw away your shield and block with you weapon, because its just as easy as blocking with a shield, its faster and your weapon cant break. Where is the realism? Where is the balance?

WTF

Soo, it would have been realistic and balancing if it was only possible to block thrusts by either chamberblock or one had to block just at the right time. That way it would be better to block with the shield than with a weapon, which is the normal situation.

 

[doomsayer]

What I would support is if the get a secondary overhand attack which has to be blocked up.
Sideways attack would be silly in any way I can imagine now.
Also without a shield you should then be able to switch between onehanded and twohanded mode with normal spears and short spears and javelins should only be used one handed.
A small stick that is gripped at the tip with two hands so that you have a 1cm blade sticking out is more a joke than a weapon.

edit: but please no change based on timing. Hardly anyone can actually chamberblock and spear shield would really be ridiculous then.

 

[shades_o_grey]

So the camps are split three ways. The "It's not broken, so why worry" camp. The "Please give us a second attack" camp. And the "Please stop letting one held thrust block stop an infinite number of attacks" camp. It's kinda funny that all through the closed beta period, this was missed. Is there a possibility of a change, or is this how it's going to be all the way through until final release? We M&B fans are spoiled beyond belief (which I LOVE, by the way ty ty ty ) by the fact that our devs actually listen to us, and either help us out, or give us their reasoning as to why a certain mechanic is how it is. I myself am in the "Please give us a second attack" camp, but like the "Stop the down block force field" camp's ideas too. Sorry to rant, I'm bored, and it's hot and humid, and I just ran out of Sweet Lemon Peace Tea .

 

[Nedews]

The simplest suggestion is to just give them a second attack.  Won't overpower them and won't leave them laughably easy to kill either particularily when they group together.

I agree with this.

Oh, and something needs to be done about the AI's spear use, they suck with spears.

 

[darkhorse]

I honestly don't think that the spear + shield combo should have any place on duel servers, or shields in general for that matter. The shield and spear have an important tactical role in any sort of team match, particularly against enemy cavalry. The purpose of a duel server, however, is to test your skill against other players so that you can practice and improve your fighting, and the shield is counterproductive to this.

 

[Qwertyman]

It's kinda funny that all through the closed beta period, this was missed.

It wasnt missed at all,  I myself suggested an overhead stab for spears  (A dev replied that overhead stabs would not be implimented, since blocking would be unintuative-  he explained it better then me-  but basically, you could stab with an overhead, at someones feet- and they would still have to do overhead block to parry it)

there were lots of arguments thrown around with spears,  at one point- that they were OVERpowered (stabs did full damage no matter how close you were at this point)

For me at least, spears work well-  but there is a large number of people who think otherwise, so evidently there needs to be some kind of change.

to above player:  whilst yes, sheild+spear is not a dueling weapon,  i'd disagree on your point with shields.  combat skills, and duel skills are far more than just blocking-  shield combat is just another combat style,  whilst I myself dont use that playstyle, I see it just as valid in a duel than any other,  it comes with its own benefits and downsides.

 

[bubble]

but please no change based on timing. Hardly anyone can actually chamberblock and spear shield would really be ridiculous then.

The dmg and speed of pikes/lances/spears aswell 1h weapons is fine, but other weapons i.e. long axe/glaive have just too high dmg ouput aswell speed. You can block a 2h long weapon since you see the animation better before they hit you, but when you have problems with a 1h weapon to hit them between a shield block and their next attack something is wrong here. With most weapons you need to hit several times before you achieve a kill, maybe except some lucky headshot. Only a handfull of weapons dont follow these rules, they are fast even on their description it says they have lower attack speed, iam not sure if those described weapon speeds are even true, I doubt this. I wished we would see more intense fights in multiplayer, one shotting isnt anyhting which will satisfy you in the long run...isnt it even boring.

Btw does this game supports macros/scripts `?

 

[Stabbing Hobo]

Btw does this game supports macros/scripts `?

Thank god not.