The "spear" (including lance, bayonets) stabs with spins should be fixed.

[Falrinth]

The unnaturally, fast turning spins with melee weapons using common spear mechanic should be fixed the way that its impossible to turn quick while stabbing... For all players but those who like the unnaturally high spins where they dont even see enemy and just spins blindly like crazy to get adventage, spears are nice melee weapons. But in hands of the 2nd group i mentioned its totally overpowered glitched weapon... they can basically stab enemy much much faster, just becouse they spin like crazy... It looks just silly and unbalance the melee fights to much...

If you would implement some hardcoded limit to turn speed, for example movement smoothing which is made in 2 parts: acceleration and max speed (which should be set aswell) state. We would have much more realistic and balanced spear fights where people would have to take into account the weight of their avatar's body parts and the fact they cant turn crazy-fast like if they would be hit by a truck in one of their arms.

Atm the normall players have huge disadventage against ones abusing current mechanic's weakness. I dont blame them, after long time playing the game you take any tool to have adventage over other players. But it could really use some revamp, especially in NW where bayonets are everywhere and we see more and more turbo-spinning butchers running around killing everyone just like if they would be using some cheats.

Its sad to watch, cause many players just quit the game becouse of this for many gamebraking exploit.

 

[Sgt major Vorn]

Turn speed has been turned down from MM just not enough as lolspins are still the best melee tactic.

 

[Falrinth]

hehe they got a specific name already in the community?

 

[Sgt major Vorn]

The name has been around a very long time..from the mount and musket (MM) days (the mod of witch NW is based)

 

[Thokan]

It has already been nerfed hard, oh so hard. You should have seen MM. This is good. This is nice.

 

[Helixrider]

True, its It is weak in 1vs1 as oposed to mm when it was one of the best tecniques in duels, aside from chambers. In mobs I use it and find it a little more effective than in mm because of the upsptab.

 

[Kator Viridian]

Turn speed has been turned down from MM just not enough as lolspins are still the best melee tactic.

Don't even think spinning is the best way to win in melee, Dodge, Dip, Duck, Dive and Dodge ... back step and stab forward funny when a spinner headplants himself into your bayonete.

 

[Rollon]

I agree with the OP, the spin stab glitch is very annoying and hardly require any skill, you just have to turn up your mouse sensibility and here you go even a noobish player can become a melee champion in groupfighting, this is silly and not realistic at all.
I wish there was some way to disable this.

 

[Horsa]

Spinstab is how warband was designed (maybe by accident). I doubt there is a way to fix that (reducing turning speed the best compromise) and it's also the most (only) effective way to fight with the bayonet, considering it is rather easy to block normal attacks, a fight would go on forever if it wasn't for spinstabs.

What really concerns me is floor stabbing (pretty close to spinstab but you go down to up, instead of left to right), I've been scoring an insane amount of kills with floor stabbing, I am thinking it needs to bounce on the ground instead of ghosting through it and go hit the target.

 

[Evanovic]

People are really mistaken to call any sort of fast turning movement an exploit.

In Warband, with any polearms, you are stuck with stabbing in 1 direction from a standing still point. In real life you can stab pretty much anywhere in front of you with your feet stood still. Try holding a hockey stick or something like a musket and then realise that you could probably 'stab' it in virtually any direction in front of you without moving your feet. Now think about it if you could move your feet, you'd be able to turn and stab at virtually and reach any angle around you without too much effort.

The spinning in the game compensates for just how limited you are with a 1 direction stab only, and although it looks unrealistic, the effect it is having is a very realistic one. Don't tell me that you couldn't stab someone to the side of you with speed, because any fit human could. Stop advocating unrealistic rail-road melee.

Evan

 

[RimShooter]

Don't tell me that you couldn't stab someone to the side of you with speed, because any fit human could.

Evan

Invent a feature which makes it possible to swing your weapon around at any direction by holding down a button and moving the mouse around. Just like the free swinging of the morningstar in Castlevania 4. Eh?
But really, swinging sideways in real life would not do you good, you need the momentum and the ability to put your weight into your strike. It's also possible for a human to punch in any direction, but that doesn't mean that doing so will result in inflicting the most damage to the one you hit.

 

[Horsa]

Evanovic spinstabbing is the ability to ignore range with a thrust attack because you begin the animation on the side and finish it in front of the enemy, so that you can hit him even if he face hugs you. Simply turning your weapon during the animation is ok to me unless it ghosts through models (spinstabbing basically), the problem is that it's the only way to fight effectively (see greatsword duels in native).

 

[Evanovic]

Evanovic spinstabbing is the ability to ignore range with a thrust attack because you begin the animation on the side and finish it in front of the enemy, so that you can hit him even if he face hugs you. Simply turning your weapon during the animation is ok to me unless it ghosts through models (spinstabbing basically), the problem is that it's the only way to fight effectively (see greatsword duels in native).

Spin-stabbing someone whilst they're hugging you doesn't do much damage anyway. In instances that it does it's when you've side-stepped in order to give your weapon more time to gain range and side-stepping is not unrealistic either.

 

[Rollon]

I'll never get why there are always some people defending broken mechanics such as stab-spinning.
Stab-spinning doesn't come from NW but it's a pain in the ass in this game because 3/4 of the player have bayonet where the only attack is a stab, to me the melee combat in this DLC is a joke because of this, the main factor is your mouse sensibility rather than your blocking/footworking/feinting/attacking ability, spinstab don't require any skill once you understood how to do it !
Don't bring the "a fight would go on forever argument" because this is just not true, even more with the new up attack animation, with a proper chamber/kick you will kill your opponent just as fast but yeah this is a bit more difficult to pull out and it actually require some skill...

 

[SirNitram]

Might be true that spinning is a prefered tactic in this mod, but if you know how to, it IS quite easy to counter.
You could for example chamber the spinner or sidestep and then stab him...
Spinning is also not that usefull in duels, and if there is only one skilled person in the group you are fighting, only spinning will get you killed...

 

[Rollon]

Of course it is easy to counter in duel (tbh most spinners are quite bad at dueling from what I saw) but in groupfigting it become a dancing ballet when you have 2 or more of those and they will pretty much onehit your whole team in a few second before you can understand what's going on because of the insane speed you can reach while spinning.

 

[RoyaleWithCheese]

People are really mistaken to call any sort of fast turning movement an exploit.

In Warband, with any polearms, you are stuck with stabbing in 1 direction from a standing still point. In real life you can stab pretty much anywhere in front of you with your feet stood still. Try holding a hockey stick or something like a musket and then realise that you could probably 'stab' it in virtually any direction in front of you without moving your feet. Now think about it if you could move your feet, you'd be able to turn and stab at virtually and reach any angle around you without too much effort.

The spinning in the game compensates for just how limited you are with a 1 direction stab only, and although it looks unrealistic, the effect it is having is a very realistic one. Don't tell me that you couldn't stab someone to the side of you with speed, because any fit human could. Stop advocating unrealistic rail-road melee.

Evan

I totally get that you want to see some more dynamism in NW's melee, but I don't see how something as patently ridiculous as spinstabbing really offers this. Also, please don't use the realism argument to defend this so-called "tactic," because spinning in game simply DOES NOT reflect the variability of stabbing in real life. Of course, theoretically, someone could react quick enough to turn around and stab, but this game's animations and mechanics simply can't capture that level of reality. And besides, spinstabbing is pretty stupid "compensation" for these shortcomings, for aesthetic reasons alone. You know what spinstabbing would actually look like IRL?

This:

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPPj6viIBmU

There's definitely a place for realism in this game, but I think its an awful stretch to say that this strategy in any way reflects or compensates for bayonet combat IRL. To me, nothing said "unrealistic rail-road melee" more than the MM servers of yore filled to the brim with players using this same, stupid trick, and I for one am glad that the NW team at least tried removing it from game (there's definitely less of it now I find). It's just a shame that mouse sensitivities will continue to rise with every attempt made to stop this ludicrous move.

 

[Yukimura_Sanada]

I Agree with the OP, I was in a duel and he was spinning so fast he always stabbed earlier than I could attack with my sword.

 

[Falrinth]

I Agree with the OP, I was in a duel and he was spinning so fast he always stabbed earlier than I could attack with my sword.

Yeah, they are stabbing faster with two-hand rifle with bayonet than you can swing with sabre that way >.<

You know what spinstabbing would actually look like IRL?

This:

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPPj6viIBmU

hahaha, indeed... Thats what i see in the game right now - but sadly its deadly >.<

 

[Evanovic]

I totally get that you want to see some more dynamism in NW's melee, but I don't see how something as patently ridiculous as spinstabbing really offers this. Also, please don't use the realism argument to defend this so-called "tactic," because spinning in game simply DOES NOT reflect the variability of stabbing in real life. Of course, theoretically, someone could react quick enough to turn around and stab, but this game's animations and mechanics simply can't capture that level of reality. And besides, spinstabbing is pretty stupid "compensation" for these shortcomings, for aesthetic reasons alone. You know what spinstabbing would actually look like IRL?

I would rather have poor animation aesthetics that results in there being that more realistic (if not slightly exaggertated for competitive purposes) level of dynamism. After all isn't this what we already have with the awful blocking representation? It looks pretty unrealistic but it's representing a realistic action and allowing for competitive play. And blocking is hardly representing variability in real life either.

The main reason this 'feature' gets such scrutiny is that people can tag 'cheap mechanic exploit' on it due to it not necessarily being intended by the original Warband developers. This is where is differs from the blocking, however, just because it was an unintended phenomenon it doesn't make it an automatic fault. I for one believe it's contributed to the melee that made MM so popular in the long-run for many players.

Because the most debated and subjective part of this issue is the realism, I'm going to put forward more of a case for that level of dynamism being realistic. The best example I can think of at the moment is in The Last Samurai film when T.Cruise 'spins' or 'flails' in order to fend off 4 other soldiers. Yes, it may be a film, but it shows how one is physically capable of using a polearm at great speed and with agility. Picture this in real life but with a lot more adrenaline and fight-to-the-death instincts going through the defender's head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S77c72lJ2gM

Furthermore I want to allude to it not being suprising that fighting with bayonets could have been very chaotic and included many fast turning movements, after all, it's those people's lives at stake. You can see examples of this in the latter battle scenes, although not too explicitly sadly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHkxUiE1Vxo#t=3m03s

Moreover, spinning is certainly no 'auto-win' tactic. It only truly works when isolated and surrounded by many enemies. I wouldn't even go as far as to call it a separate 'tactic' or 'feature' - it's fundamentaly the turning mechanic, and limiting the turning speed has big implications for the competitiveness and general ability to display skill in the game. A fast turning speed is the prerequesite to using: stab, block, chamberblock, feint, kick, dummy stab, etc. on other players. If you can't turn fast enough to face an enemy player then you don't allow that player to even attempt to use said 'skills'; it makes the control of the game result much less internalised and individual.

Some people are claiming that this then makes the game more about teamwork due to numbers being more important, but this is total fallacy. It should take skill to make good teamwork, not simply numbers to guarantee victory. Simply sticking together in a blob and being numerous is not teamwork that you would consider at all reliant on intellect or understanding between teammates, it's just uncompetitive and almost a predecided affair; disadvantaging the skilled individual even more and preventing him/her from impacting the game.

Coming from someone with 2000 hours experience with musket melee combat, not even being a particularly frequent 'lolspinner', I know having relatively fast turning speed gleans enough realism and competitive gameplay benefits to exist. I've played in tournaments, regiments and a lot on the public servers, and the thing that kept me going far beyond after all aesthetic and gimmicky aspects wore-off was the high skill-ceiling in the melee gameplay that was partly enabled due to the fast turning speeds in MM. I do not advocate a return to the MM turning speed, as even I will admit it was a bit too fast, but I do ask for a slight increase in the current turning speed and a certain 'no-go' in the direction of slower turning speeds.