Bernhardt said:The papacy!? poor irish troops.... they are not as bad as the papacy proly but they could use some tweak or at least an upgrade for god sake.
Cèsar de Quart said:First of all, we need to take conscience that the Papacy was not a Monastic order of monk knights. It was a feudal domains as any other, so its troops should depict its feudal troop system. Rome and other Central Italian cities were rich and wealthy, so a good "urban militia" bunch of troops would be needed. Spearmen, crossbowmen and so (even though the Pope banned the crossbows during the Second Lateran Council, crossbow became the most popular projectile weapon of Western Europe, and Italy was not an exception). Light cavalry, representing the rich burguers, and finally the feudal set: sergeants, squires and knights. The typical behaviour of a Feudal army.
The Pope used not a bizarre mixture of multicultural units (huscarls, English bowmen... that's unrealistic), he used his own army of Feudal troops, Urban militians and mercenaries.
Swiss Guard is not an option, because it was created in 1505 by Pope Julius II. But a Papal Guard is welcome, before the Swiss Guard there was a guard in the Papal palace.
Including the Hospitallers would be like what someone did with a Crusades mod: making all the Antioch troops look like Templars and all the Tripoli troops look like Hospitalers. As if in Antioch and Tripoli only lived Templars and Hospitalers. I find it rather silly.
chantrain said:Cèsar de Quart said:First of all, we need to take conscience that the Papacy was not a Monastic order of monk knights. It was a feudal domains as any other, so its troops should depict its feudal troop system. Rome and other Central Italian cities were rich and wealthy, so a good "urban militia" bunch of troops would be needed. Spearmen, crossbowmen and so (even though the Pope banned the crossbows during the Second Lateran Council, crossbow became the most popular projectile weapon of Western Europe, and Italy was not an exception). Light cavalry, representing the rich burguers, and finally the feudal set: sergeants, squires and knights. The typical behaviour of a Feudal army.
The Pope used not a bizarre mixture of multicultural units (huscarls, English bowmen... that's unrealistic), he used his own army of Feudal troops, Urban militians and mercenaries.
Swiss Guard is not an option, because it was created in 1505 by Pope Julius II. But a Papal Guard is welcome, before the Swiss Guard there was a guard in the Papal palace.
Including the Hospitallers would be like what someone did with a Crusades mod: making all the Antioch troops look like Templars and all the Tripoli troops look like Hospitalers. As if in Antioch and Tripoli only lived Templars and Hospitalers. I find it rather silly.
some sacrifices can be made for gameplay reasons imo, if its more fun to give the papacy slightly embellished units instead of the regular militia/crossbow/seargents then why not do that? care has to be taken afterall that the unit rosters are balanced for gameplay reasons, you don't want to gimp one faction and make others over powered. its up to what Cruger wants for his mod in the end.
Earl of Swadia said:Well you managed to convert me Cesar de Quart. I agree totally. Here's a suggestion:
=> Papal Militia Swordsman => Papal Sergeant => Papal Squire => Papal Dismounted Knight => Dismounted Cardinal*
=> Papal Militia Spearman
=> Senior Papal Spearman => Papal Sergeant => Papal Mounted Squire => Papal Knight => Christ Guard* => Cardinal*
Papal Peasant (or Pilgrim) => Papal Militia
=> Papal Militia Crossbowman => Papal Master Crossbowman => Papal Ranger*
=> Papal Ranged Militia
=> Papal Militia Archer => Papal Master Archer => Papal Ranger*
Troops marked with a * are special troops. Not sure about the Cardinals though. Just added them in for fun.
Earl of Swadia said:I knew the Cardinals would be out of scheme . And yes, Changing the Papal to Roman is a bit more accurate for the militia. But for the higher end troops it would be nicer to see Papal in there. As to the dismounted knight, how about Papal Foot Guard?
Cèsar de Quart said:The only reason for which a knight would not fight on horse would be, either because the horse died during the battle (which happens a lot in the game), or because the battle is going to be set on a muddy, swampy or very rugged terrain.
Cruger said:El-Diablito said:The guys with the crosses are still pretty stupid you have to admit is that actually based on historic fact? because I cannot possibly believe anyone would be stupid enough to put on a monks robe grab a cross and go into battle, give the poor bastards a sword or a spear
Well, the crosses might be stupid (*dammit, the only moddel I made myself get critisized*), anyways its a fact that priest and such were only allowed to use blunt weapons.. I read that somewhere when I had something about the Bayeux Tapestry..