the new death in battle sucks

[sirano]

so when 1.5.5 came out they made it so if u enter a battle there is a chance that your lords or enemy lords die or even you.
i will say why they should either go back to the old system (it had nothing wrong with it) or give a third option to go back to the old one
1- all melee companions are now useless because they will die in 1 or 2 battles.
2-this have ruined the fighting in this game, the player must only watch and if he attacks it could be the end of the campaign .
3-the player cant help larger armies in his clan so they dont die out that means snowballing clans that i usually play against will not be affected by the player being with the enemy faction (if u are with sturgia and at war with khuzait or vlandia u used to be the guy who defended castles and defeated there army's)
4-its a f**** rpg. all games give us options and sliders to pick how WE want to play the game not the devs, i loved the 'dying of old age only' idea it had nothing wrong with it and now you are limiting us from enjoying fights and losing lords if we help our armies
5-it has no use and as said before the old mechanic had no exploit or problems like the rest of the game. you took a fine working mechanic and u just ruined it for me u could have worked maybe on the broken economy or smithing 1 wood 1 coal 1 iron means 100k item or maybe the snowballing or improved the ai or balance factions a little more.

i am a bit salty tbh i dont like when devs do something to force allot of us to play a certain way in an rpg, i dont want to play more like a lord and lead men from behind i would just play total war for strategy, i want to enjoy fights lance someone in the face and if i get 1 shot killed with a javelin i dont lose the game or if i help my faction or lord i dont want to lose some of them and i dont like the disable death and birth option they should either go back to the old mechanic or make it an option

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

1- all melee companions are now useless because they will die in 1 or 2 battles.

yeah it's true lol
I don't know if they player can die in combat though. I might be wrong but it hasn't happened to me yet.

 

[Julio-Claudian]

all games give us options and sliders to pick how WE want to play the game not the devs,

Death in battle makes it way more fun and risky imo but I agree with this. We shouldn't need to download mods to be able to change settings in this sort of game.

The companion thing is also annoying, in my experience it happens because they always speed ahead of everyone else in their group when ordered to move to a position or attack and just end up getting rushed.

 

[sirano]

Death in battle makes it way more fun and risky imo but I agree with this. We shouldn't need to download mods to be able to change settings in this sort of game.

The companion thing is also annoying, in my experience it happens because they always speed ahead of everyone else in their group when ordered to move to a position or attack and just end up getting rushed.

yeah it can be fun but it should not be forced what and yeah its supposed to be an option just like the no birth no death one

yeah melee companions are bad now i used to have 3 good two handed ones and i destroyed small lords with them but now they are useless

 

[sirano]

yeah it's true lol
I don't know if they player can die in combat though. I might be wrong but it hasn't happened to me yet.

i think he does but less chance, but for lords and companions its annoying in my curret game 1 year and i have 7 lords dying in my fights i started constant fighting day 280 or something because i started an empire alrady lost 1 companion (now i only put them as archers)

 

[Nalgasucia507]

Death in battle makes it way more fun and risky imo but I agree with this. We shouldn't need to download mods to be able to change settings in this sort of game.

The companion thing is also annoying, in my experience it happens because they always speed ahead of everyone else in their group when ordered to move to a position or attack and just end up getting rushed.

Why not have them as a different formation, i.e. Companions, and always following you? It works for me since I am not normally fighting that much, but commanding the battle, and just join in the middle or at the end.

 

[jak1up]

I agree, this should be a separate setting from birth and aging.

 

[Niomedes]

You can already disable death in battle at campaign start. Just do that if you're not brave enough to live up to the challenge.

 

[sirano]

Why not have them as a different formation, i.e. Companions, and always following you? It works for me since I am not normally fighting that much, but commanding the battle, and just join in the middle or at the end.

the best is an option to bring it back to the old system (death of old age only ) this way u wont care if they get knocked out and you can let them follow u but with no risk of losing them if something went wrong
also they should have just made executing lords less hated if they want us to kill lords

 

[sirano]

You can already disable death in battle at campaign start. Just do that if you're not brave enough to live up to the challenge.

as i said i just want death of old age to play as my character children its not bravery its a game and i want to enjoy they could just add lords and companion death as an option not change the entire thing

 

[Blood Gryphon]

as i said i just want death of old age to play as my character children its not bravery its a game and i want to enjoy they could just add lords and companion death as an option not change the entire thing

They plan to lower the rate to 2% or 1% in the near future (right now its 10%) and implement AI lord deaths in simulated battles so its not just the player battles that is impacted. This needs to occur or else the world will quickly become over populated in the 2nd generation. So in the future it will be a pretty rare occurrence in the player battles.

 

[dannazgu]

They plan to lower the rate to 2% or 1% in the near future (right now its 10%) and implement AI lord deaths in simulated battles so its not just the player battles that is impacted. This needs to occur or else the world will quickly become over populated in the 2nd generation. So in the future it will be a pretty rare occurrence in the player battles.

But, if they give a option to choose, shoudln't they give us a option on how % we want of death rate?

I mean, 2% it's nearly impossible anyone dying in battle....

 

[Niomedes]

Yeah, 2% seems really low. Especially since it's not 2% of all cases, but only 2% of the cases in which the lord is actually knocked out, which in itself rarely ever happens. I estimate an actual chance of death around no more than 0.1% here.

 

[Blood Gryphon]

No need im happy to help.

Ok for everyone interested in the impact of deaths rates for campaigns I did some


Naw but really to get in to it we need to think about birth rate and death rate to understand the population growth rate. Luckily I have the numbers we need for this equation from evaluating clans with their recent updates. All of this is excluding potential player parties.

We start the game with a population of 343 lords with 34 kids in 72 clans, as new born kids take 18 years to grow up only these 34 kids will turn into adults over the first 18 years. So there is only those 34 kids to replace whoever dies. With that in mind lets look at the death rates proposed so far.

For death rates I had to make some assumption, lets say a lord loses a fight and gets injured 2 twice a year, over those first 18 years they would have lost 36 battles with an opportunity to die. Whats important to remember is that clans can only have 3 parties out at once so not all lords will be out fighting. At the start of the game all the clans combined can field 208 parties (not all clans have 3 members). In the table along with the percents for yearly rate and chance of dying over 18 years of battles, it will also show the total potential population reduction after 18 years based on both the total pop and the max parties as it will probably land somewhere between those. It also shows yearly reduction but take that with a grain of salt.

Spoiler: Death rate table

Battle Death rate	10%	5%	7.5%	3%	2%	1%	0.50%	0.20%
Yearly Death Rate (2 loses/yr)	19%	9.75%	14.4%	5.91%	3.96%	1.99%	1.00%	0.40%
Chance of dying over 18 yrs worth of battles (36 loses)	97%	84%	94%	66.60%	52%	30%	17%	7%
Pop Reduction After 18 yrs based on Pop	333	289	322	228	177	104	57	24
Pop Reduction After 18 years based on Max parties	202	175	195	139	107	63	34	14
Death Yearly Reduction based on Max Parties	40	20	30	12	8	4	2	1

Next we have what the population would be after 18 years after the reductions. Its pretty clear that only having 34 starter kids is not nearly enough to keep to population above the maximum parties for all clans for any rate above 1%. But wait this is not the full story, remember this is before we get the onslaught of new born children.

Spoiler: Population after 18 years

Death rate	10%	5%	7.5%	3%	2%	1%	0.50%	0.20%
New Pop after 18 yrs Based on Pop Reduction	11	59	23	126	182	263	315	351
New Pop after 18 yrs Based on Max Parties Reduction	175	202	182	238	270	314	343	363

Its also hard to calculated birth rate but lets use another few assumptions and look at these three birth rates; 1 child/clan a year (72 kids a year), 0.5 child/clan a year (36 kids a year), and 0.25 child/clan a year (18 kids a year). We know that these kids will only become adults after 18 years so lets look at the overall net growth rate using the yearly death reductions from the first table.

Spoiler: Net Adult Pop Growth rate after 18 years

Death rate	10%	5%	7.5%	3%	2%	1%	0.50%	0.20%
Net Adult Growth After 18 years based on 1 child/clan/year	32	52	42	60	64	68	70	71
Net Adult Growth After 18 years based on 0.5 child/clan/year	-4	16	6	24	28	32	34	35
Net Adult Growth After 18 years based on 0.25 child/clan/year	-22	-2	-12	6	10	14	16	17

With the net adult population growth estimates and population after 18 years estimates we can now look at what the potential total population will be for the next 10 to 20 years after the initial 18 years (so 28 years and 38 years later).

Spoiler: 1 child/clan/year pop potential

Death rate	10%	5%	7.5%	3%	2%	1%	0.50%	0.20%
Pop after 28 years Based on Pop Reduction	336	577	442	723	820	941	1014	1062
Pop after 38 years Based on Pop Reduction	661	1094	862	1320	1457	1620	1713	1774
Pop after 28 years Based on Max Parties Reduction	500	719	601	836	907	992	1042	1074
Pop after 38 years Based on Max Parties Reduction	825	1236	1021	1433	1545	1671	1741	1786

Spoiler: 0.5 child/clan/year pop potential

Death rate	10%	5%	7.5%	3%	2%	1%	0.50%	0.20%
Pop after 28 years Based on Pop Reduction	-24	217	82	363	460	581	654	702
Pop after 38 years Based on Pop Reduction	-59	374	142	600	737	900	993	1054
Pop after 28 years Based on Max Parties Reduction	140	359	241	476	547	632	682	714
Pop after 38 years Based on Max Parties Reduction	105	516	301	713	825	951	1021	1066

Spoiler: 0.25 child/clan/year pop potential

Death rate	10%	5%	7.5%	3%	2%	1%	0.50%	0.20%
Pop after 28 years Based on Pop Reduction	-204	37	-98	183	280	401	474	522
Pop after 38 years Based on Pop Reduction	-419	14	-218	240	377	540	633	694
Pop after 28 years Based on Max Parties Reduction	-40	179	61	296	367	452	502	534
Pop after 38 years Based on Max Parties Reduction	-255	156	-59	353	465	591	661	706

So @mexxico here are my main take aways from all this data and results from the population after the initial 18 years and then down the line another 10 to 20 years.

• We need a lot more pregenerated kids in the game, spaced out so they dont all become adults at once. I would suggest at least another 100. Even with a 2% death rate we are looking at between 182-270 total pop after 18 years.
• The birthrate should be around 0.25 kids/clan/year or another way to think of it the kids need to come of age (18 years old) at a rate of 0.25/clan/year. This will help keep the population from growing to much even when considering the death rates.
• With the assumption/requirement of at least 100 more starter kids and a growth rate of 0.25 kids/clan/year, I think the best death rate to help keep a small natural growth in population is 3%. If you look at the net growth table you can see 3% death rate has a net growth of 6 new adults a year, which if the population doesn't drop drastically thanks to the new 100 starter kids in the first 18 years would keep the total world population about 20% bigger than it started 40 years ago.
• Without those additions I would suggest bumping it down to 1% for 1.5.6 so population doesnt drop to far down after 18 years, although the potential growth of the overall population could be a problem long term.

I did a quick little analysis on this a week or so ago, my opinion on the rate depends on a few necessary changes.

 

[dannazgu]

I did a quick little analysis on this a week or so ago, my opinion on the rate depends on a few necessary changes.

?

Ok... I'm conviced... Christ, how you find time to do so much on analysis like this? You're and some other people are TW: Bannerlord guarding angel.

???

 

[sirano]

Yeah, 2% seems really low. Especially since it's not 2% of all cases, but only 2% of the cases in which the lord is actually knocked out, which in itself rarely ever happens. I estimate an actual chance of death around no more than 0.1% here.

a slider could fix both problems %of death from 0 to 10 or 20% and we chose
for kids they should limit each clan to having 6 kids or a number that keeps a clan healty and not over populate even player clan because its crazy sometimes she gives birth and gets pregnant the next day

 

[Julio-Claudian]

Why not have them as a different formation, i.e. Companions, and always following you? It works for me since I am not normally fighting that much, but commanding the battle, and just join in the middle or at the end.

Having them leading formations is beneficial.

Yeah, 2% seems really low. Especially since it's not 2% of all cases, but only 2% of the cases in which the lord is actually knocked out, which in itself rarely ever happens. I estimate an actual chance of death around no more than 0.1% here.

2% actually isn't that low. At 10% I get one or two AI lords who are part of an army I'm leading dying practically every battle.

Using the AI values life mod which allows NPCs to die in their own battles I always have it set to 0.01 or 0.02 and deaths are not uncommon but not overly frequent. I suppose it's probably a different calculation system though.

 

[Nalgasucia507]

Having them leading formations is beneficial.

True that. I forgot that some perks give formation leaders a benefit, or is it the order of battle, where you will be able to direct companions to direct part of your army?

 

[Julio-Claudian]

True that. I forgot that some perks give formation leaders a benefit, or is it the order of battle, where you will be able to direct companions to direct part of your army?

A few updates ago they said that the first companion you place in a group (infantry, archers etc.) would be the leader of that group and if they fell the next one in the group would take over. I haven't tried anything beyond 1.5.4 so idk if that has changed.

 

[veronicaaltoids]

no, I don't think the order in the group matters