The Early Middle Ages Never Existed

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So said in 1997 a German egineer leading a group of journalists, writers, doctors and other people with no historical formation other than having head some books.

Here's an article about it, written by the theory ideologist, Niemitz:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/volatile/Niemitz-1997.pdf

The idea is that in 1582, when the caledar was readjusted (Gregorian calendar), it was said to be because it was 10 days off. Niemitz says that for the Julian calendar to be 10 days off, 1280 years would be needed (aprox), so pope Gregory, the calendar reformer, must have lived in 1280, and not 1580. 300 years don't fit into the chronology.

They also claim that nothing really happened in the Byzantine world between the years 600 and 900 AD  :neutral:  Harun al-Rashid never existed, neither did Charlemagne, they were all forgeries to give prestige to the early history of the Ottonids and the Umayyads. Muhammad was as mythical as Jesus, and the first four Orthodox Caliphs are also a well elaborated story.

I think it's bull****. Although it's a curious point of view, there's just one argument that kills it: one would need an international conspiracy team of scholars, priests and kings all agreed to fill 300 years of History and not raising suspicion until today. How did they do it?

Now, I don't know about caldenars, but I do know that there's a gazilion of documents that can be dated accurately between the years 600 and 900 everywhere. For example, they claim that there is a phantom spot 583 to 661 AD based on criteria focused in the Middle East, saying that the Umayyads co-lived with the Persian king Cosroes II. But then, what of the well-recorded Byzantine Emperors that lived at the same fantom time?

Here in Catalonia we have documents dated according to the king of France / Frankish Emperor regnal year, these chronologies have been rebuilt and interpretation have been made. There is no room for phantom years.

Anyway, what gets me tired is the common argument: "Historians don't dare challenging the "official" history", as if there was something called "official history". Historians are miope and absurd reactionary fossiles who cannot see further away from their beloved documents, which they believe word by word.

Lucky us, here comes the gang of untrained journalists, engineers and doctors to save the historical day!
 
picard_facepalm.png
 
Oh, and I thought Fomenko started all this missing-time nonsense. Interesting...
Just a few weeks ago I was talking with a Hungarian friend about that, btw, and it seems such theories are getting somewhat popular in some circles there (remove the ~300 years of the Avar khaganate and you get a direct link between Huns and Hungarians, f.e.). Of course, I'm not saying pseudo-history isn't flourishing elsewhere either, including in my own country, but here it's mostly from other types, it seems.
Also, don't forget another big obstacle between the missing-time thesis - archaeology. :wink:
 
I've been reading a little part of it. Makes no sense at all, first if Caesar made his Julian calender at the age approximately 300, how did the Byzantines form? The book or article says it has been in development slowly, but that makes no sense, Byzantines are the grandchildren of roman society, how can it be formed by its own? I doubt it is anything like Greece and Latin or Greece and Macedonian = the same. I think this is a load of ****, BUT this theory is super interesting.
 
Cèsar de Quart said:
So said in 1997 a German egineer leading a group of journalists, writers, doctors and other people with no historical formation other than having head some books.

Here's an article about it, written by the theory ideologist, Niemitz:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/volatile/Niemitz-1997.pdf

The idea is that in 1582, when the caledar was readjusted (Gregorian calendar), it was said to be because it was 10 days off. Niemitz says that for the Julian calendar to be 10 days off, 1280 years would be needed (aprox), so pope Gregory, the calendar reformer, must have lived in 1280, and not 1580. 300 years don't fit into the chronology.

They also claim that nothing really happened in the Byzantine world between the years 600 and 900 AD  :neutral:  Harun al-Rashid never existed, neither did Charlemagne, they were all forgeries to give prestige to the early history of the Ottonids and the Umayyads. Muhammad was as mythical as Jesus, and the first four Orthodox Caliphs are also a well elaborated story.

I think it's bull****. Although it's a curious point of view, there's just one argument that kills it: one would need an international conspiracy team of scholars, priests and kings all agreed to fill 300 years of History and not raising suspicion until today. How did they do it?

Now, I don't know about caldenars, but I do know that there's a gazilion of documents that can be dated accurately between the years 600 and 900 everywhere. For example, they claim that there is a phantom spot 583 to 661 AD based on criteria focused in the Middle East, saying that the Umayyads co-lived with the Persian king Cosroes II. But then, what of the well-recorded Byzantine Emperors that lived at the same fantom time?

Here in Catalonia we have documents dated according to the king of France / Frankish Emperor regnal year, these chronologies have been rebuilt and interpretation have been made. There is no room for phantom years.

Anyway, what gets me tired is the common argument: "Historians don't dare challenging the "official" history", as if there was something called "official history". Historians are miope and absurd reactionary fossiles who cannot see further away from their beloved documents, which they believe word by word.

Lucky us, here comes the gang of untrained journalists, engineers and doctors to save the historical day!
you are joking right ??
i learned something from this forum never tell history before you know it
and your saying that Charlemagne and Harun al-Rashid  did not exist how is that Charlemagne did not exist then who's the one has saved  the paple states  and i think (not very sure) because of him the pope called the roman empire a holy and if Harun al-Rashid did not exist thin who's the one has continued the conquest of Persia and small parts of Turkey
i think your information is the only thing does not exist         
 
laith said:
you are joking right ??
i learned something from this forum never tell history before you know it
and your saying that Charlemagne and Harun al-Rashid  did not exist how is that Charlemagne did not exist then who's the one has saved  the paple states  and i think (not very sure) because of him the pope called the roman empire a holy and if Harun al-Rashid did not exist thin who's the one has continued the conquest of Persia and small parts of Turkey
i think your information is the only thing does not exist       

It's a little more complicated than that. What Niemitz suggests is that the Papal States never needed to be saved. Whatever happened between the yeard 600 and 900 never happened.

The Holy Roman Empire started to be called that way in the XIIth Century, by the way.

But, hey, I wonder how did you miss all the fine pieces of irony I planted in my message. Like this one:

Cèsar de Quart said:
I think it's bull****.

The day I start supporting this buttload of crap, somebody please shoot me.

***

Nike; In Hungary they're crazy about nationalism, I guess being directly related to the Huns is way too cool to pass.

 
Cèsar de Quart said:
laith said:
you are joking right ??
i learned something from this forum never tell history before you know it
and your saying that Charlemagne and Harun al-Rashid  did not exist how is that Charlemagne did not exist then who's the one has saved  the paple states  and i think (not very sure) because of him the pope called the roman empire a holy and if Harun al-Rashid did not exist thin who's the one has continued the conquest of Persia and small parts of Turkey
i think your information is the only thing does not exist       

It's a little more complicated than that. What Niemitz suggests is that the Papal States never needed to be saved. Whatever happened between the yeard 600 and 900 never happened.

The Holy Roman Empire started to be called that way in the XIIth Century, by the way.

But, hey, I wonder how did you miss all the fine pieces of irony I planted in my message. Like this one:

Cèsar de Quart said:
I think it's bull****.

The day I start supporting this buttload of crap, somebody please shoot me.

***

Nike; In Hungary they're crazy about nationalism, I guess being directly related to the Huns is way too cool to pass.
that's impossible that nothing between the  600 and 900 many things happened like Spain started and the changing the name of the eastren roman empire to Byzantium and many new countries came like The Holy Roman Empire Portugal France Almohad's (the Moors) the the Abassian caliphat  Denmark (Saxons Before) Russia i think and so many others and hundreds of New tools like weapons
Building tools  armors technologies and others
and what ever you say the fact remain's     
 
Suspicous Pilgrim said:
If his theory were true we'd find contradicting historical texts.
We do find contradicting historical texts all the time (that's actually one of the flaws of most modern forgeries - they're often too perfect) - that's why critical analysis is an important part of a historian's work. Of course, we do not find historical contradictions of a "3 centuries missing" degree. At least not much...
 
Cèsar de Quart don't get mad of me but your theory is bull**** first your saying that nothing happened
between 600-900 AD then you said Harun al-Hashed nor Charlemagne existed next your saying Mohammad is a myth and Jesus too what's left god don't exist  :neutral: :neutral: :neutral: 
 
IT IS NOT HIS THEORY. HE DOESN'T THINK ANY OF IT IS TRUE. HE IS A SANE HUMAN BEING AND HE SIMPLY SHOWED THE STUPID THEORY FOR EVERYONE TO LAUGH AT.
 
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