SP - General Taking prisoners is currently pointless

[WisdomPanda]

I apologise if this has already been covered.

Currently, I'm taking over the Western empire in my most recent play through and one thing that struck me was how utterly useless taking nobles prisoner is.

Observations;

• The money I earn from my fiefs and the battle loot has me rolling in cash, so their ransom is pointless.
  • My first large (80v150) battle had me walk away with like 48k, 10~15 nobles worth of ransom
• They escape way too fast/often to make holding them in your party to prevent them rejoining battle a legitimate option
  • Unless you take them right near a town/castle you own
• I don't get the option of refusing ransoms. further compounding the above
• I can't talk to them in the dungeon and try and make them see the error of their ways
  • Ideally, by any means necessary. (The dungeon IS full of pointing things... just saying)
• When I grossly out number them, they're all "hey, I don't want to fight", but I get nothing from this.
  • The opposite situation, where I'm caught grossly out numbered, requires some sort of tribute/bribe.
  • If I let them go, I don't even get any rep.
• I can't convince non-family heads to break away from their clan.
  • "Hey, they won't even pay your ransom... <darthvader voice> Join Me."
• I can't let them go after the initial capture for some bonus relation
  • Say I've captured all the lords from a big battle, I only want to release a certain clans, but I suck , so I can't remember the clan logo.
• I can't take the women as my concubine(s)
  • "You can join my empire and keep your fief, but I'm taking your daughter! Gwahahahaha" [/bandit-lord]
  • In seriousness though, I feel the lack of NPC's offering marriages as political tools is a missed opportunity.
• Nobles aren't worth much in negotiating for peace
  • It just seems to be their monetary value?

Compare this to execution;

• Noble leaves their faction, for good.
• Other nobles hate you, they'll join them soon enough.

So my general question/feedback is; what's the point of taking prisoners?

 

[iimstevo]

Agreed. It's entirely pointless. I don't even bother except to level up Roguery, or to stop them from immediately forming new parties to interrupt the building of a siege camp for the fourth time.

I'd much prefer it if you took a prisoner to a castle dungeon, that they're there permanently until either the castle is taken, or an AGREED upon ransom is decided by the player. Like escaping a dungeon happens way, way, way too frequently. It's supposed to be a locked room, in a guarded castle, with locked gates and giant walls... how in the F are they all escaping that? Does the guard just hand them the keys and say "Hey, don't use these plz"?

EDIT: Escaping from a party that's mobile and engaged in battle is fine, it makes sense that there'd be fewer guards and more opportunity to escape.

 

[872930]

Yeah, the current meta is to just axe every lord you come across. The loss in relation with other enemy clans and lords isn't enough (or even relevant to be honest) to the annoyance of having to face an endless horde of low level enemy parties. I understand the game is in early access so i'm not expecting every system to be in place there.

Though, I can tell why TW has come to making things this way: there are so many lords that can host parties that if they were held for much longer than they currently are (that time being basically none), any factions that lost a major battle would have a snowball effect take place that would pretty much just destroy them right then and there. Said snowballing prevention is the same reasoning for why lords can get their party sizes to be so high almost instantly after being defeated.

 

[Lord Ferdinand]

Agreed. It's entirely pointless. I don't even bother except to level up Roguery, or to stop them from immediately forming new parties to interrupt the building of a siege camp for the fourth time.

I'd much prefer it if you took a prisoner to a castle dungeon, that they're there permanently until either the castle is taken, or an AGREED upon ransom is decided by the player. Like escaping a dungeon happens way, way, way too frequently. It's supposed to be a locked room, in a guarded castle, with locked gates and giant walls... how in the F are they all escaping that? Does the guard just hand them the keys and say "Hey, don't use these plz"?

EDIT: Escaping from a party that's mobile and engaged in battle is fine, it makes sense that there'd be fewer guards and more opportunity to escape.

So it's not only me. ? Maybe depends on the wall level? Looking how the dungeons are, it should be almost impossible.

 

[Beau Vine]

I just hold them in my castle to prevent escape, and they're free to join their loved ones after the war has ended. Unless they're super incompetent.

I don't know if it currently has this effect, but if number of companions was finite, or limited for computer, we could use this in a number of ways.

PC when captured and released, agrees not to attack that faction for 10 days. I'd also like to make sure the same is true for NPCs.

If whom we're holding and who got released impacted enemy, we could not only withhold their best commanders for duration of war if we catch them (using ie knowledge of their fiefdoms which they could favour in patrolling), but we could let go the ones with awful stats, ensuring that as war goes on, enemy tides will not only come full of more and more recruits - but they'll be led my schmucks who can use a quarterstaff and ride a horse and that's it.

I do like the proposal to make escape from a dungeon next to impossible (with 100+ in Roguery maybe ), and then the only way to get out is ie if the castle is threathened and prisoners are being moved (just had to move 10+ NPCs because the castle was doomed, it was a fun refreshing stretch of the war).

I also like the idea of getting concessions with torture, but with a heavy relation cost. Like a flat -1 or -2 with any lord and companion without cruel tag.
This would still make playing a Bolton viable, if discouraged... And you could certainly pull off a Lannister - donating prisoners to lords known to be torturers, to ensure mutual destruction of your enemies.

All that said, while I'd like these things to factor in, the challenge is not "just" implementation, but as 872930 noted, balancing it against snowball effects.
One thing would be flat -1 relation every X days of being held with that lord and his closest friends. That way it's an effective tool for turning tide of the war, but one that shouldn't be abused if we want to hold given territory long term. Conversely, we could get cocky, release a lord assuming he's just our future vassal, and then he whoops our ass when he comes back with an army.

 

[hruza]

Compare this to execution;

• Noble leaves their faction, for good.
• Other nobles hate you, they'll join them soon enough

You forgot:

• Plauer breaks his own game.

Also keep in mind that we are playing Early Aces. This isn't finished game yet.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

strange...i have never had one escaped me once even if i know the risk is and should be there, as you can escape them. Prisoners are good to have for extra cash or i use em for extra soldiers if needed (like an reserve). And if you have disciplinary perk you can make those slaves in to rare units like highborns and stuff...so what is there to whine about

 

[Waybook]

If you capture the leader of a minor faction, then there should be an option to force them to abandon their current mercenary contract.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

If you capture the leader of a minor faction, then there should be an option to force them to abandon their current mercenary contract.

But you can talk em over, but idk if you can force em after a battle though

 

[Waybook]

I meant that TW should add such an option.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

what you mean its all ready in the game

 

[Waybook]

It is? Ok, my bad then. It seemed to me you can't basically do anything when talking to prisoners.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

well i think its more of an pre battle thing then prisoner thing..But you do have an option to talk to your prisoners if i remember it right so it might be there..But on the other hand some people can just say yeah im gonna do it then do something else when they are free. But then you have the option to hunt em down if its not there atm maybe it will be in the future because i know you can talk others over in this game

 

[WisdomPanda]

You forgot:

• Plauer breaks his own game.

Also keep in mind that we are playing Early Aces. This isn't finished game yet.

Yup, I made this thread to bring light to the fact it needs work.

strange...i have never had one escaped me once even if i know the risk is and should be there, as you can escape them. Prisoners are good to have for extra cash or i use em for extra soldiers if needed (like an reserve). And if you have disciplinary perk you can make those slaves in to rare units like highborns and stuff...so what is there to whine about

This is specifically for noble prisoners; other warlords.

If normal prisoners had any chance of escaping, I'd be rather miffed. They are my main source of troops.

well i think its more of an pre battle thing then prisoner thing..But you do have an option to talk to your prisoners if i remember it right so it might be there..But on the other hand some people can just say yeah im gonna do it then do something else when they are free. But then you have the option to hunt em down if its not there atm maybe it will be in the future because i know you can talk others over in this game

Currently, when you talk to a prisoner in your party, you get the MC telling them "Don't escape!", if you talk to them in a dungeon, they reply that "They aren't allowed to talk to you"... I own the castle/town, so who would you be allowed to talk with?

In a perfect world, I'd want to the option to treat some prisoners nicely, so I could slowly earn rep of spoiling them (at cost of gold).

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

yes was talking about nobles and warlords but on the other hand i havent got em on me long enough. I either trade em in or execute em so guess they over time escape from prison or get released during peacetime which some wont. Yeah i spotted that prison dialog today but will prob get changed later or else it wouldnt be there. Will prob be prison escape and missions most likely laters within that to since dungeon is set up for it like in Warband

Yup, I made this thread to bring light to the fact it needs work.



This is specifically for noble prisoners; other warlords.

If normal prisoners had any chance of escaping, I'd be rather miffed. They are my main source of troops.



Currently, when you talk to a prisoner in your party, you get the MC telling them "Don't escape!", if you talk to them in a dungeon, they reply that "They aren't allowed to talk to you"... I own the castle/town, so who would you be allowed to talk with?

In a perfect world, I'd want to the option to treat some prisoners nicely, so I could slowly earn rep of spoiling them (at cost of gold).

 

[kettleofketchup]

+1 I am looking at every patch notes to see if they have fixed ransoming and escaping

 

[Slint]

You forgot that you can also trade them in for influence, which is an extremely valuable way to earn influence early in the game. Instead of complaining, maybe try creating a thread that offers suggestions for improving it?

 

[eddiemccandless]

You forgot that you can also trade them in for influence, which is an extremely valuable way to earn influence early in the game. Instead of complaining, maybe try creating a thread that offers suggestions for improving it?

OP is implicitly offering suggestions by stating the things that you can't do with prisoners. I did not see it as complaining myself.

 

[Dr-Shinobi]

You forgot that you can also trade them in for influence

damn why havent i thought of that ^^ thought it was only troops i could get in for that..good tip right there however that meter goes down faster then a burger in a swine house so you gonna have one fat contract+getting good influens value

 

[Slint]

OP is implicitly offering suggestions by stating the things that you can't do with prisoners. I did not see it as complaining myself.

I'm all for constructive suggestions. If I'm a dev working on this game though most of this is not helpful. Much of it is just inability to use the mechanics within the game.

• The money I earn from my fiefs and the battle loot has me rolling in cash, so their ransom is pointless.
  • Great, so you're rolling in cash. Then don't take prisoners if you don't want anymore cash
  • Potential suggestion - Increase ransom fees for prisoners
• They escape way too fast/often to make holding them in your party to prevent them rejoining battle a legitimate option
  • Yes, prisoners can escape. Which means don't just hold on to them indefinitely.
  • Potential suggestion - Decrease chance for prisoner escape
• I don't get the option of refusing ransoms. further compounding the above
  • Not sure I follow this...if you don't want to ransom them, then don't?
• I can't talk to them in the dungeon and try and make them see the error of their ways
  • Fair. Suggestion is to allow conversations with prisoners with some options, such as negotiating their release or join user faction
• When I grossly out number them, they're all "hey, I don't want to fight", but I get nothing from this.
  • Armies of lords don't currently seem to surrender, but looters and bandits surrender all the time.
  • Potential suggestion - Outnumbered faction armies can surrender
• I can't convince non-family heads to break away from their clan.
  • Yes you can, just not after they are captured. See note above
• I can't let them go after the initial capture for some bonus relation
  • So don't capture them and get the relation bonus after the battle? If you're just going to let them go anyway why wouldn't you do this? The only reason I could see would be to keep them off the battlefield for a few days, which given how quickly the respawn with troops anyways I don't see this as very important
  • Potential suggestion - release post-capture increases relation/charm (same as if released after battle)
  • Potential suggestion - Increase time for released lords to raise an army
• I can't take the women as my concubine(s)
  • I like this, but there is not really a mechanic in the game outside of marriage that would relate to this.
  • Potential suggestion - Add concept of indentured servitude for minor faction companions
• Nobles aren't worth much in negotiating for peace
  • There already is a section on the Barter screen to exchange prisoners, but I haven't seen it work yet
  • Potential suggestion - Allow captured prisoners to be used as bargaining chips during barter