[Sugg-question] Auto-calc

[daumor]

I haven't tested the auto0calc, but I haven't seen any mention of it getting a face lift.

Basically I'm asking if better auto-calc is in the works, and if it's not, then could that please be added to the agenda.

If you guys don't have the time, then could you at least move as much as possible into soft coding so the the modders can have more control. I'm sure expanded functionality in this area (more powerful inventory scanning, info on the troops stats etc...)

 

[nijis]

Auto-calc is already included in script_inflict_casualties_to_party, so modders should be able to have at it.

Right now it's based on the troops' level. I suspect that a lot of the "WTF?" results are simply the outcome of randomness, but I haven't dealt with it in great detail. If anyone wants to work on a detailed algorith that provides more intuitive results, I'm sure we could give it some consideration.

Keep in mind that inventory scanning is actually quite time-consuming, from a data-crunching perspective. Instead of inventory-scanning, I would propose different troop types be given pre-set values for different capabilities.

 

[amade]

This has, in fact, been done by Arch3r for both troop type and inventory scanning as well as terrain type in 1.011. No reason why modders can't do it for Warband as well but it'd be nice if native's autocalc did get a bit of an upgrade.

 

[nijis]

I can have a look at Arch3r's scripts. Which mod in particular?

 

[amade]

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,68434.0.html

The inventory scanning is limited only to a few items and commented out (probably because it's released as a kit but I assume it works). The script was mainly made for calculating terrain advantage as the thread title says. So I hazard a guess that to have a script that takes into account of all items would be a lot of work.

 

[nijis]

Thanks for the link. As I read it, that basically just gives a bonus based on terrain, which is probably not a bad idea.

Going beyond that, however, and creating a more sophisticated system that incentives certain troop mixes, leads to a bit of a problem -- you can create the most nuanced auto-calc in the world, but if it incentivizes very different behavior than the regular combat system, it will seem out of whack -- particularly if players look at upsets and think, "feature or bug"?. The level system, simple as it is, does have the advantage of being easily understood.

 

[daumor]

That's true, but the results are still very WTF. 20 Knights with heavy armor and armed with serious killing steel should never lose to any number of unwashed farmers.

If nothing else, bias it more toward level instead of numbers, as the current auto calc. Numb ers are not insignificant, by any means, but I feel they are weighted far to heavily in lieu of training, experience, and gear.

Take Thermopylae for example...

 

[Riggea]

Yes! A new Auto-calc is needed!

Thanks for the link. As I read it, that basically just gives a bonus based on terrain, which is probably not a bad idea.

Going beyond that, however, and creating a more sophisticated system that incentives certain troop mixes, leads to a bit of a problem -- you can create the most nuanced auto-calc in the world, but if it incentivizes very different behavior than the regular combat system, it will seem out of whack -- particularly if players look at upsets and think, "feature or bug"?. The level system, simple as it is, does have the advantage of being easily understood.

The actual system already seems "out of whack". A bit of changes won't hurt , specially if its a good one.

 

[Arch3r]

Thanks for mentioning me I believe someone else did the same though, but checking the cost of the equipment of all the troops and used that as factor. Can't remember who though.

 

[amade]

I wonder, how does the autocalc determine whether a troop will be wounded or killed? Would it also be possible to make it so that certain troops or equipment would cause KO's instead of kills?

Manhunters for example, should inflict a lot of KOs relative to kills in autocalcs.

 

[Berserker Pride]

Yes if it is the same autocalc as native it needs to put a higher value on troop lvl over troop numbers.