Flanged said:
This kind of **** happened in England too dude.
Scots are a repressed lot though, I forget that.
Scottish Independence
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This kind of **** happened in England too dude.
Scots are a repressed lot though, I forget that.
I know that the "managed decline" has happened UK-wide Leifr. That's what I've been saying all through the thread - the UK state (in other words, the Union) is harmful to the interests of every country that falls under it's governance, and we would all be better off without it - Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland/Ireland. Scottish independence will hopefully be the first step towards getting rid of it entirely.
I'm not claiming any special victim status. The Union has screwed us all at one time or another.
I'm not claiming any special victim status. The Union has screwed us all at one time or another.
dan1993uk
Grandmaster Knight
Flanged said:
Its not as easy as just comparing numbers, a lot more can be done with 6000 people now than it could back in the 1980s is its not as simple as saying "there is less people now". Its the same story with manufacturing in general, which has apparently declined in the UK despite output being higher today than it was in the 60s, the difference is that manufacturing has taken a back seat as it has in all western economies and the amount of people required to do the same if not more work has dropped massively due to modernisation.
That being said, the government does make some awful decisions when it gives out contracts, the UK is the only "fair" country in terms of this in the world, which is not a good thing, every other country gives priority to its self when handing out contracts like ship building or anything really, the UK does not.
I remember back when London 2012 was building up there was a lot of rage over the fact that the government gave the contract to make some posters?(or something like that) to some Italian firm instead of an English one because it would of costed slightly more but you know, its not as if the money spent on the English firm would cycle back into the economy or anything...
dan1993uk
Grandmaster Knight
Jhessail said:Hahaha, bull****. You don't even know what you don't know.
Almost every European government gets that **** from parts of the population: "our country is the only who plays fair, everyone else is an selfish *******".
Nobody said anyone else is selfish, I even stated that it was not a good thing that the UK government is willing to give out contracts that could be fulfilled within our borders to companies outside of the country.
Dude, WTF? You just wrote it!
Finland brought Italian trams, Greece brought German tanks are two examples off the top of my head of really really really big government contracts going abroad. As I wrote, EVERY country has ignorant people who cry that their government is stupid and plays fair while every other country is selfish. That's absolutely a bull**** lie.
and now you claim you didn't?Daniel. said:
Finland brought Italian trams, Greece brought German tanks are two examples off the top of my head of really really really big government contracts going abroad. As I wrote, EVERY country has ignorant people who cry that their government is stupid and plays fair while every other country is selfish. That's absolutely a bull**** lie.
dan1993uk
Grandmaster Knight
Jhessail said:
I thought the original post I made was pretty blatant but clearly it is not.
The UK government gives out contracts for military equipment, ships or anything really to companies in other countries, this is not good for the UK because in most cases there are companies available in the UK that can also fulfill the contract. I am not saying nobody else gives contracts to other countries but the UK has no bias towards the UK, whereas I have never seen a country other than the UK do this, at least not major countries. Once again this is a horrible thing for the government to do.
Flanged said:
Glasgow is a pretty interesting case though, considering how bad it still is to this day, many towns and cities in England were almost wholly reliant on industry that was closed down in the 80s but never once reached a level of crime close to what Glasgow still has to this day, what makes it seem even more strange is the fact that Glasgow is like Scotland's 2nd city and is still riddled with crime. Glasgow actually has the 2nd highest GDP per capita of any "region" of Scotland (Major cities are counted as regions for some reason)
dan1993uk
Grandmaster Knight
Eternal said:
Spending 2 seconds on Google would of found you what you want.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2105100/Navy-buys-Korean-ships-fuelled--452m-contract-tankers-goes-Far-East.html There is just one example but as I said this issue exists in more places than just ship building.
Its really a shame to see how Europe (especially Britain) has fallen so far behind in ship building, just a few countries in Asia are building the vast majority of the worlds ships :/
Lord Burgess1
That's partly because post ww2 it didn't modernise and tried to continue as it was.
Shipyards have gone up and down the world over. STX (a South-Korean company) is the fourth-largest ship builder in the world but has hit rocky times in the last ten years, closing down several shipyards around the world or selling them off. There has been, for a long time, more capacity than is actually required, which is the main reason why shipyards post-WW2 have been generally downsizing. Obviously with the caveat that there have been boom periods.
You do realize that most military equipment that UK uses is of domestic production?
And that putting tax-payers money on a more expensive domestic project might not necessarily return that much money into the local economy that would justify it over a cheaper foreign project. After all, with the cheaper project, the government can use that saved money for another project.
Finally- and again because you don't seem to be able to grasp it - UK is not alone here. I love how you completely ignored my two examples, but every EU country buys stuff from abroad and at the same time, exports stuff as well. Absolutely every government faces the same criticism, that they should prioritize domestic over foreign projects, without caring about price or even quality. Which is ridiculous and stupid. Every EU country already practices unfair competition practices through subsidies and tariffs. Do you what's the reason why your local grocery shop has Dutch and Spanish and UK meat and veggies instead of South-American or African products? Because EU as a collective slaps a hefty tariff on them to protect agricultural industry inside EU while also subsidizing farmers so that they can offer somewhat competitive prices to consumers.
In conclusion, 19th century called and want its mercantilism back.
This is what I wanted you to elaborate on.
You do realize that most military equipment that UK uses is of domestic production?
And that putting tax-payers money on a more expensive domestic project might not necessarily return that much money into the local economy that would justify it over a cheaper foreign project. After all, with the cheaper project, the government can use that saved money for another project.
Finally- and again because you don't seem to be able to grasp it - UK is not alone here. I love how you completely ignored my two examples, but every EU country buys stuff from abroad and at the same time, exports stuff as well. Absolutely every government faces the same criticism, that they should prioritize domestic over foreign projects, without caring about price or even quality. Which is ridiculous and stupid. Every EU country already practices unfair competition practices through subsidies and tariffs. Do you what's the reason why your local grocery shop has Dutch and Spanish and UK meat and veggies instead of South-American or African products? Because EU as a collective slaps a hefty tariff on them to protect agricultural industry inside EU while also subsidizing farmers so that they can offer somewhat competitive prices to consumers.
In conclusion, 19th century called and want its mercantilism back.
dan1993uk
Grandmaster Knight
Jhessail said:
Those few countries in Asia still produce the vast majority of ships worldwide, while the UK has slipped down the list, I understand that ship-building in general is not as needed as it once was but some countries industries have declined disproportionately, the UK being one of them.
Jhessail said:
I never once stated that the UK imports all or even most of its military equipment, I just said they do give out contracts for military equipment, I never said how much because I know that the majority of equipment the UK military uses is at the very least made by UK companies.
Jhessail said:
I did not ignore your two examples, when I replied to that post they were not there, hence why they were not in my quote and I understand that countries import things from other countries, its pretty simple, the question is does Greece have an option? do they even have a company and industry capable of creating their own tanks?
I have no problem with the UK importing things, the issue is that we should not be importings things that can be produced here. Even if it costs slightly more, its worth paying that extra cost to help keep the industry alive, obviously its going to vary from case to case whether or not it would actually be valid, but on the whole I think it would be better.
Mage246
An industry supported with subsidies is going to fail eventually. In the meantime, its competitors will out-expand and out-scale them, then probably undercut them on price even with those generous government subsidies. Plus use their larger profits to support R&D and further modernize their already superior facilities. Subsidies are life support; they're not a way to keep a company competitive, but just to keep them alive. Zombie companies.
An Irish Noob
Recruit
I want to stay part of the Union. I have far more of a connection with English people than I do people in the Republic of Ireland. There's a very clear divide even if there is no physical border. Our local government is completely useless also, hell I'd even rather direct rule from Westminster again over the bunch of ex terrorist old men who never get anything accomplished because they can't even possibly imagine agreeing to anything.
And that is with me coming from a heavily republican family..Still, I call myself Irish because I am, but i'd rather be Irish and in the Union than out of it.
And that is with me coming from a heavily republican family..Still, I call myself Irish because I am, but i'd rather be Irish and in the Union than out of it.
An Irish Noob
Recruit
Yes. I suppose you could say we have been assimilated in a way. Examples are we vote in UK elections, not Republic ones (even though we are constitutionally allowed to). It costs money to text or call someone in the Republic whereas it's free if you're on a contract and far cheaper if not if the call is within the UK. We have the NHS here, it's not in the Republic. We have the UK Flag everywhere too. We have the same channels and shows, there's literally no difference in television between England and here other than domestic channels whereas our main channels differ from those in the Republic. We are dual citizens here (if you chose to be), you can pick to be British or Irish or both. The Queen is our head of state, not the President of Ireland as the Irish constitution states. I understand somebody from any part of England including their sayings far better than I do somebody in the Republic. Also we use £ whilst they use euro.
Those are just a few examples out of many.
Why do you think the North of Ireland exists as it does? We are more connected with the rest of the Union than we are with people who live closer to us than they do.
Those are just a few examples out of many.
Why do you think the North of Ireland exists as it does? We are more connected with the rest of the Union than we are with people who live closer to us than they do.
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