Sandboxing equipment (customizable weapons, armour, and horses) (Upd09-02)

[Zilberfrid]

I think I will not factor in differing materials (though maybe you could bring better steel yourself), but I think for new weapons Crude, Normal, Balanced, Heavy and Tempered could be used to state smith quality. A good smith makes good weapons, and you should not ask him to make subpar gear, he might flat out disagree, or charge you too much for it anyway.

I have not dabbled with visual representation as of yet, and I am ill equipped to do so, but I see good possibilities in the random face and terrain generators.

I will make the sliders and types complete today, thereafter I will start with armour (and armour will be snug fitting if I can help it, I stated my -poorly formulated- opinion in the other thread as well). Thereafter I start with horses, though I am not quite sure what I wish to do with them.

 

[Zilberfrid]

First taste of  armour (I have not yet finished all things concerning weapons, but I am not very sure about maces, picks and such, so I will only do so when I find out what I want with them...)

Spoiler

There are three layers, Lower, middle and top layer. Armor value is calculated by adding the squared values of each layer and taking the square root of the armour. This means that a thick gambeson only with a value of 20 will have an armour value of 20, but a gambeson lower layer (20) mail middle layer (32) and plate top layer (40) will add up to a total of 55 armour (heaviest possible). This might not be the most realistic way of calculating,but it creates the range of armour M&B has now, and for which it is balanced. Armor is about as expensive as it is now (when factored in less coverage) but you need more of it for the same amount of damage reduction, so armouring yourself is more expensive in total. (the gambeson only costs 224, but the plate, mail, gambeson combination will cost 2213 (against the 1953 native that adds 18 leg armour). Weight is the square root of the protection as for now. It works a little, but I am not pleased as yet (If you calculate the native armours, I seem not too far off)

If you use more layers, you will have a cheaper protection (if you go for the same protection) but it will be heavier

(yes, I know, mail under plate was not very common later on, but I am still puzzled as to how I will change it, I might add a "out of date fee" to make it rarer or make it middle layer and top layer)

Arms, legs body and head all have seperate hitboxes, weight added to your arms slow your weapon speed in the same way agility increases it, and weight added to your legs similarly reduces your walking speed. Damage to arms and legs are reduced to 75% before calculating damage to hitpoints.

(incidentally, this will change a lot in the gameplay for differing factions, heavier armoured troops will fight differently)

Sloppily adding some math so people can calculate themselves
Armour value is SQRT((Value Layer one)2 + (value Layer two)2 + (value Layer three)2)
Armour piece weight = SQRT(armour piece value) for full coverage.  multiplied by the amount of coverage for less than full (helmets always are half this)
Armour piece cost = (Armour value)2.5/8

Lower layer
Gambeson value 4,8,12,16,20

Middle layer
Leather/fur value 4,8,12,16
Mail value 8, 32 (8 is a mail standard, though this may be best in the top layer)

Top layer
Fabric value 4,8,12
Armoured surcoat 20
Cuir Boilee 22
Coat of plates 24,32
Lamellar 12,20,32
Plate 16, 28, 40

Helmet
Light leather/felt/straw  4
Heavy leather 8/12
metal Skullcap 16
Metal nasal/visored/kettle hat 21
3/4 helmet (unvisored bascinet, guard helmet ed) 26
Full helmet 31

 

[spectre:]

Just a tip, organize this stuff, becausde it would be a shame if it went to waste.
(And just post to let us know that you've updated)

For starters: just edit the first post, or your posts on first page, so that it's all there for reference and one doesn't have to jump thru the whole thread to get it all.
Then, make friends with the text functions, like bold and italics, and tags, such as lists (these functions are all there above), code and spoiler (the last one is really useful if you have large blocks of numbers etc. which would obstruct readability.

 

 

[Zilberfrid]

Problem is that all layout gets skewered when copy-pasting. I am finishing stuff now and then I will condense it all into one nice post with spiffy layout before I get to horsies maces and picks

 

[Jasrock]

Yeah.. It's a great work done... Like said Spectre "it would be a shame fif it went to waste."

So you have all my support for that great & well developped suggestion 

 

[Zilberfrid]

First post updated
Need to do list:
maces, hammers, staves and ranged weapons,
recalculate armor from horsies to make a smoother and more consistent with player armour system,
figuring out how to make the computer see what I mean
Figuring out how I will see what the computer means when having statted something

Last update: Smaller shields added to make buclerfighting possible for all us I:33 lovers
Edited horses' names to better suit medieval times and the english language
Edited weapons and armour to add checkbox options
Edited horse layout
Added charge bonus to having armour on horses
Added quality integer to weapon creation string
Added rant about weapon qualities for different troops
Added useless combination counter just below this post (no longer correct, there are many more combinations) to indicate the realismAdded beer to stomach
Added beer to stomach

 

[Zilberfrid]

Options count
Weapons, just over 37 million (before hammers, maces, picks, staves, and ranged weapons)
Shields
4320
Horses
46000
Armour, counting planned checkboxes
1,867 billion

This will allow faction troops to look similar without being the same, just by taking a few thousand combinations from the above

Spoiler

(making combinations is not hard, for instance, you put on clothing in the morning, you select from 5 shirts, 3 trousers 2 shoes and 5 jackets. The amount of combinations you can make is now 5*3*2*5=150, The sword selection set has 11 choices for length, 5 for taper, 5 for width, 5 for fuller, 2 for guard style, three for guard color, 2 for guard length, 3 for grip, 4 for grip color 5 for pommel style (and let's take pommel colour the same as guard colour for now) making a stunning 990,000 options, not counting quality)

 

[Cymro]

Spoiler

Falchion                                
Length         30   40   50   60   70   80   90   100  110  120  130
Dam            25   26   27   28   29   30   31   32   33   34   35
dam 2h         31   33   35   37   39   41   43
Speed          115  110  105  100  95   90   85   80   75   70   65
speed 2h       100  95   90   85   80   75   70
Weight         1.1  1.2  1.3  1.4  1.5  1.6  1.7  1.8  1.9  2    2.1
Strength req   3    5    6    7    8    9    10   11   12   13   14
Price          22   35   51   69   89   112  136  162  189  218  247
                               

It might be easier to show the information if you wrap it with teletype (tt) tags rather than tables, which are a law unto themselves. The easiest way to get the spacing right is to put the text in notepad under courier new (or another monospace font), correct the spacing, then copy it back into the spoiler.

The idea is shaping up very well, by the way

 

[Salvar]

...1 kudos............ na kidding 5 to the power of 2 kudos

 

[Zilberfrid]

Thx for the added kudos! I am still balancing the options, as well as being swamped in work for the last days, I might be able to have a finished system that is somewhat equivalent to the current system later on this week. Striking area is the major balancing problem, I am currently calculating a point of optimal impact with a bell curve that has a gradient according to weapon type (steep with axes and bladed polearms, less so with swords and staves)

 

[Nikola]

try also adding new units, for example the one form this vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXU17eio3uw&feature=related

 

[Zilberfrid]

Adding new units in this thread would clutter it, a lot. I may have ideas in that direction, but this idea is large and complicated enough to stand alone in its thread.

 

[Trashmaster]

Cool idea, i say hell yeah!

I would like to see customizable arrows

 

[Zilberfrid]

Arrows now have

Thickness
                  Thin                                        Thick
Distance    120% 110% 100%    85%    70%
Damage    70%      85%  100%  110%  120%

Heads
Regular Dam +0 cutting
Barbed Dam +2 cutting accuracy -5
Bodkin Dam -4 piercing price *150%


Length                        short                            long
Power draw needed 0      1      2    3      4      5      6      7      8  (power draw needed from bow = 1/2 arrow rounded down)
Damage                      15  16    17  18    19    20    21    22    23
Price                            50  75    105 150  225  330  500 750  1100

Bows
Length        Short                  long
PDN              0    1    2    3      4      5      6
Dam+          0    1    2      3      4      5      6
Speed          100 98 96 94    92  90    88
Price            20    40  80    160 320 640 1280

Type
Self              (Dam +0 price x 100%)
Composite (Dam +2 speed +1 price x 400%)

But it is really unappealing to have these simulated armies bash each other up... I am not really working on this project until Friday, when my last project is due.

 

[jazilla]

I like this idea, because you could find some useful weapons on the battlefield every once in a while. Nice spoil makes for a happy player. If I keep getting rusty maces, and chipped swords, i will ear-hole a Sword Sister with my long shank. With your system, it wouldn't be inconceivable to get a great item to use for my character off the battlefield. Kings in this game outfit their armies with some garbage stuff. That must be why I can take out hundreds of them fortified behind the walls of a castle, with a height advantage, with 80 guys. GG.

 

[Zilberfrid]

You might find a lot on the battlefield, but it often won't be exactly what you need, there are too many options for that. What I try to make is a realistic system that uses a whole number of variables to give a lot of choices so people you see might differ in a lot of details, but still have similar feel. You will still get rusty maces, especially if you hit on low experienced troops (I wish to have better units have better equipment). You will have a full spread on maces though, not only the differing heads, but also differing length, haft, length of head (though maces have one of the least variation in all weapons, maybe 700 differing or so). That is why you need a blacksmith to commission good weapons for you, so if you have a one in a million (quite literally) chance to get exactly the sword you like, it is better to commission one, even if it is expensive (the other swords will work fine, but are not all that you can have now are they...

 

[Borathian]

so with all these options for customization in different fields of crafting would you also add the appropriate craftsmen?

if so I think it would be an interesting idea to add small increases and/or decreases to the product depending on the skill of the craftsman perhaps even going so far as to limit what a craftsmen can make depending on there skill lvl(s), giving you a reason to travel the length and breadth of Calradia in search of a craftsmen that can make you a weapon of exceptional quality, instead of relying on the meager skills of a small towns smith who is only used to repairing farm equipment and shoding the local horses.

 

[Zilberfrid]

Yep, for some of the best swords you will need to go to praven, polearms might be bought best in Veluca. just so you will have more reasons to explore all of calradia. Getting a good weapon when vassal of someone could be like a quest on its own, first traveling to Tulga where the best composite bows are made, sneaking in, commisioning the craftsman, and sneak back in a week later when it is finished, something like that.

 

[Zilberfrid]

Added bows and arrows, redesigned armour to a simpler but more effective system (My precious math, oh no, it all gone). Removed weight inconsistencies.

I am working at the boolean structures needed to generate the numbers from the weapons. It is more than I thought, I might even want to remove some choices so the comp can generate the armies easier at the start of battle.

 

[GaGrin]

Love the idea; just a small note.

If its possible (I have not idea how M&B handles missiles) I'd say that heavier arrows fly *quicker* and fly straighter to start with but then lose energy quicker and have a sharper fall off.

I don't know if this is possible, but I've fired a few bows from 20 to 38lbs and even a small difference in arrow weight and bow poundage makes a huge difference to the arc. (I noticed a 2lb difference when I went from a 36 to a 3

Also arrow length is based on the draw length of the bow (which is itself based on the height of the archer).