Sandboxing equipment (customizable weapons, armour, and horses) (Upd09-02)

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Zilberfrid

Sergeant Knight
From the customizable weapons thread, which mainly dealt with swords, I started thinking, and thought there were a lot of things that could be added if the game were modified to some extent.

(for those who hate my space-bar lay-out, read the rant below)
I cannot help the shortcomings of this forum, it does not like embedded html, does not like tables, cannot upload my tables as gifs in a friendly way, so lay out will be screwed. If you want it, I will mail it to you in a nice .xls, .ods, .doc or .odt. There are always three bastard options, so that might give you some aid in reconstructing it. I am not lazy, but I will no longer waste time trying to figure it out. (it may work in Quote better, I'll try. It looks nice on my screen, but previews screw up :mad: )


The free form item system

Weapons, armour and horses are more different than the game can handle, they change subtly in ways that are noticable but the item is still recognizable as part of a group It is not so difficult to make a system that uses a few precalculated values to model new weapons. This would make the items you loot all subtly different, and might give you the option of ordering a custom weapon in a smithy, asking a horse trader to get you just the horse you need, and matching armour pieces to suit your style best

If you alter a characteristic of the weapon, the weapon shape changes, and its numbers change, for instance if you change the length, the weapon will become more expensive, have more reach, deal more damage, be heavier, require more strength and be slower, futhermore the model will stretch to visualize your new weapon,

Weapons

Double edged swords
Slide from short to long, the length of the model increases, the weight increases, the amount of damage increases, the speed lowers

Length      40  50  60  70  80    90  100 110 120 130 140
Dam          17  18  19  20  21    22    23 
dam 2h                                  23    25    27  29  31  33  35
Speed        120  115  110  105  100  95    90 
speed 2h                                105  100  95    90    85    80  75
Weight        0.6  0.7  0.8  0.9  1  1.1  1.2  1.3  1.4    1.5  1.6
Strength    1        2      3    4      5    6      7      8      9      10    11
Price          39  58  81  107  138  172  209  250  294  340  389
Slide from piercing to cutting, the piercing damage lowers, the blade loses profile taper, the midrib softens and the cutting damage increases

Taper              Straight  Regular  Strong
Piercing dam%  70  85  100  110  120
Cutting dam%  120  110  100  85  70
Slide from Slim to wide, the width of the model widens, the weight increases, the cutting damage increases, the speed lowers (moderate price increase)
Slim/wide  Slim      Regular      wide
Cutting dam%  80  90  100  105  110
Speed%            110  105  100  90  80
Weight%          90  95  100  110  120
Slide fuller from short to long, the fuller on the model lengthens, the speed increases, the weight decreases, the piercing damage lowers significantly, the cutting damage hardly decreases

Fuller  None      half      Full
Piercing %  110  105  100  90  80
Speed%        80  90  100  105  110
Weight%      120  110  100  95  90

Cosmetic changes


Guard shape Straight, Downturned => Long medium short =>bronze, steel, blackened
Pommel shape Wheel, Disk, Brazil-nut, Scent stopper, lobed => bronze, steel, blackened
Grip Waisted, bottle, straight, tapered => dark brown, light brown, wire, half-wire


curved swords

First, choose a basic shape, being the falchion or the sabre
Slide from short to long, the length of the model increases, the weight increases, the amount of damage increases, the speed lowers
Falchion                               
Length    30    40    50    60    70    80  90  100  110  120  130
Dam      25    26    27  28    29    30  31 
dam 2h                                  31    33  35  37      39    41    43
Speed  115  110  105  100  95  90  85 
speed 2h                                100  95  90  85      80    75    70
Weight  1.1    1.2    1.3  1.4  1.5  1.6  1.7  1.8      1.9  2      2.1
Strength  3        5      6    7      8    9    10  11      12  13    14
Price      22    35  51  69  89  112  136  162    189  218  247

Sabre                               
Length  40  50  60  70  80  90  100  110  120  130  140
Dam      23    24    25    26      27  28  29
dam 2h                                    29  31  33  35  37  39  41
Speed  115  110  105  100  95  90  85 
speed 2h                                  100  95  90  85  80  75  70
Weight  1  1.1  1.2  1.3  1.4    1.5    1.6    1.7    1.8    1.9    2
Strength  2  3      4      5      6    7      8      9    10    11  12
Price      30  44  60  78  98  120  144  170  196  224  253
Slide from Slim to wide, the width of the model widens , the weight increases, the cutting damage increases, the speed lowers
Slim/wide  Slim      Regular      wide
Cutting dam%  80  90  100  105  110
Speed%            110 105  100  90  80
Weight%          90  95  100  110  120
Cosmetic changes would include
Falchion
Blade clipped/not clipped
grip straight, curved back => ash, oak, pine, ebony
Sabre

Guard shape Straight, Downturned, plate(tsuba-like) => Long medium short =>bronze, steel, blackened
Pommel shape Wheel, Disk, Brazil-nut, Scent stopper, lobed, endcap=> bronze, steel, blackened
Grip Waisted, bottle, straight, tapered => dark brown, light brown, wire, half-wire

Axes
Basic shapes and lengths again
Bearded
Bearded axe  Striking area            20                 
Length  40  50  60  70  80  90  100  110  120
Dam      29  30  31  32  33
dam 2h                33  35  37  39  41  43  45
Speed  100  95  90  85  80
speed 2h              95  90  85  80  75  70  65
Strength 7    8      9    10  11  12  13  14  15
Weight  1.7  1.8  1.9  2  2.1  2.2  2.3  2.4  2.5
Price  43  62  83  106  132  159  188  218  249
Daneaxe
Dane axe  Striking area            15                 
Length  40  50  60  70  80  90  100  110  120
Dam      28  29  30  31  32 
dam 2h                32  34  36  38    40      42    44
Speed  102  97  92  87  82 
speed 2h              97  92  87  82    77      72  67
Strength 6      7  8      9  10    11  12    13    14
Weight  1.4  1.5  1.6  1.7  1.8  1.9  2  2.1  2.2
Price  40  58  78  100  125  151  179  208  238
Eastern axe
Eastern axe  Striking area            25                 
Length  60  70  80  90  100  110  120  130  140
Dam      26  27  28  29  30 
dam 2h                30  32  34      36      38    40    42
Speed  105  100  95  90  85 
speed 2h              100  95  90    85    80    75    70
Strength 7      8    9      10  11    12    13    14    15
Weight  1.5  1.6  1.7  1.8  1.9    2      2.1  2.2  2.3
Price      70    91  115  141  168  198  229  261  294
It also has a wideness slider, which does more than with swords
Slim/wide    Slim  Regular      wide
Cutting dam%  70  85  100  110  120
Speed%          120  110  100  85  70
Weight%            70  85  100  110  120
Striking area%  80  90  100  105  110
Price%              80  90  100  115  130
And cosmetic choices
Handle style octagonal with grip, octagonal, round
Handle wood (ash, oak, pine, ebony, blade)
inlay (none, crosses, dragon),
blade colour (blackened, steel)
maybe slightly differing axeheads within these parameters (Bearded: Voulge blade, bearded blade, waraxe blade, Daneaxe: Angle of impact, woodsman's axe, *sigh* double axe eastern: Berdiche, Hungarian, Saracen)

Pole-arms
Not as much sliders, just a whole bunch of choices and according length sliders
Spear, pike, lance
Spear                               
Length  110  120  130  140  150  160  170  180  190  200  210
Dam        11  12      13    14    15      16      17 
dam 2h                                        17    19      21    23    25    27    29
Speed      110  105  100    95      90    85      80 
speed 2h                                      95    90      85    80      75  70    65
Weight  1.6  1.7  1.8  1.9  2  2.1  2.2  2.3  2.4  2.5  2.6
Strength 0  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10
Price      44    56    69    85    101    119  139  160  181  204  227

Custom options:
Staff wood ash, oak, pine, ebony
Langets on/off
Spearheads Boar spear, Lance, Pike, Awlpike, fork
Dual purpose
Big category, I categorised them according to price, with subtypes in them that change characteristics
Expensive
Expensive                               
Length  90  100  110  120  130  140  150  160  170  180  190
Dam      13  14      15      16    17    18
dam 2h                              17    19      21  23      25    27    29  31
Speed    110  105  100      95    90    85
speed 2h                            100    95    90    85      80      75    70    65
Weight  2.1  2.2  2.3  2.4  2.5  2.6  2.7  2.8  2.9  3  3.1
Strength6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16
Price  84  107  134  164  197  233  272  314  357  402  448
  Cutting damage%  Piercing damage%      Length                   
Pole-axe          130                      80                                -20                   
Pole-hammer  80b                      80                         
Halberd  no change
Staff wood ash, oak, pine, ebony
Langets on/off                     
Regular
Medium                               
Length  80  90  100  110  120  130  140  150  160  170  180
Dam      12  13  14      15    16    17 
dam 2h                          16    18    20      22    24    26    28    30
Speed  110  105  100  95  90  85 
speed 2h                          100  95  90      85      80    75    70  65
Weight  2.1  2.2  2.3  2.4  2.5  2.6  2.7  2.8  2.9  3  3.1
Strength5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15
Price  62  82  105  131  160  192  226  264  303  344  386
                      Cutting damage%  Piercing damage%  Speed%                 
Glaive  no change                             
Bill                                130                                60                         
Fouchard                        80                                90                    110                       
Staff wood ash, oak, pine, ebony
Langets on/off
Cheap
Cheep                               
Length  70  80  90  100  110  120  130  140  150  160  170
Dam      10  11  12  13        14  15 
dam 2h                        14        16  18  20      22    24    26  28
Speed  105  100  95  90      85  80 
speed 2h                        95        90  85  80    75    70    65    60
Weight  2.1  2.2  2.3  2.4  2.5  2.6  2.7  2.8  2.9  3  3.1
Strength4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14
Price  38  52  69  89  111  137  164  194  226  260  294
  Cutting damage%  Piercing damage%  Length                   
Scythe  no change                             
Godendag  80b  80              -10                   
Staff wood ash, oak, pine, ebony

Arrows

Thickness
                  Thin                                        Thick
Distance    120% 110% 100%    85%    70%
Damage    70%      85%  100%  110%  120%

Heads
Regular Dam +0 cutting
Barbed Dam +2 cutting accuracy -5
Bodkin Dam -4 piercing price *150%

Length
Length                        short                            long
Power draw needed 0      1      2    3      4      5      6      7      8  (power draw needed from bow = 1/2 arrow rounded down)
Damage                      15  16    17  18    19    20    21    22    23
Price                            50  75    105 150  225  330  500 750  1100

Bows
Length
Length        Short                  long
PDN              0    1    2    3      4      5      6
Dam+          0    1    2      3      4      5      6
Speed          100 98 96 94    92  90    88
Price            20    40  80    160 320 640 1280

Type
Self              (Dam +0 price x 100%)
Composite (Dam +2 speed +1 price x 400%)


Other weapons

I have not yet thought of what to do with this

Shields
How do I make it up? Basic shapes, size thickness
Heater
Heater             
Heater                 
Size              30    40      50  60    70    80
Hit points      230  307  383  460  537  613
Weight            1.8  2.5  3.1  3.7  4.3    4.9
Speed            96      88  80    72    64      55
Price              77  136  213  307  417  545


Kite
Kite                 
Size            40    50    60  70    80    90
Hit points  267  333  400  467  533  600
Weight        2.1    2.7    3.2    3.7    4.3  4.8
Speed        89    82      74    66    59    51
Price          119  185  267  363  474  600

Round
Size              20  30      40    50    60  70
Hit points  143  215  287  358  430  502
Weight        1.1  1.7  2.3    2.9  3.4  4.0
Speed          124  111  99    86    73  60
Price          32      72  127  199  287  390

Pavise
Board                 
Size            50    60    70    80    90  100
Hit points  292  350  408  467  525  583
Weight        2.3  2.8    3.3  3.7  4.2    4.7
Speed          83    76      69    61  54    47
Price          162  233  318  415  525  648

Material can be changed to make your shield faster and lighter or more resilient
Material            Speed%  Weight%  Resistance  HP%  Price%
Thin wood        120              80            0                    80            80
Regular wood    100            100          1                  100            100
Thick wood        80            120              2                120            120
As well as covering
Covering      Spd%  Wt% Res HP%  Price%
None              110    90      0    90            85
Plate covered  90  130      4    120          140
Leather covered 95  105    1    105        110
Canvas covered  100  100      1    100  100
And rimming
Rim              Spd%  Wt%  Res  HP%  Price%
Rawhide    100  100            1  100            100
Steel            90  102            2  105            110
None          110    98              0    95            90

Armour
Let's break this down into its components
Arms
Seperate hitbox, damage done here is reduced to 75% before it is taken from your hitpoints. Armour added here adds weight that has a negative modifier on your weapon speed in the same way a high agility gives you a bonus. For now, calculate the armour bonus in the same way as body armour, as well as cost and weight (weight is not that much less by the way) Special arm armour often only provides lower arm defence (25% gauntlets, mittens, gloves 50%splinted bracers, bazubands and leather bracers) and count as top layer. though some work for the whole arm, conflicts with top layer body armour will have to be prohibited in equipping,
Legs
Seperate hitbox, damage done here is reduced to 75% before it is taken from your hitpoints. Armour added here adds weight that has a negative modifier on your walking speed. For now, calculate the armour bonus in the same way as body armour, as well as cost and weight (weight should be a little more, but I'll come to that), Special leg armour often only provides lower leg defence (25% ankle boots 50%splinted boots, Fur boots and leather boots) and count as bottom layer. though some work for the whole leg (mail chausses), conflicts with body armour should not occur because leg armour fits around the leg and body armour features skirts,
Head
No change really, just the three layered system. And weight of the armour is divided by two due to less material, maybe thickness of armour might be a little less
Helmets                 
Type  Fur cap/straw hat  Leather helmet  Metal skullcap  Visored/nasal/kettle hat  ¾ helmet  Full helmet
armour        2                              3                            8                      12                            14                18
Weight        0.5                          0.8                          1.6                    2.4                            2.8              3.6
Cost            8                              18                          160                  360                          490              810 
Body
You have three layers, lower, middle and top layer
Lower layer consists of some kind of undergarment or gambeson, this has differing thickness according to a slider. Colours and direction of filling will be checkboxed, heraldry can be added directly to it
Thickness 
Thickness    Low        Med        Max
    armour      1      3    5      7      9
    Weight    0.5    1.5  2.5  3.5  4.5
    Cost          1      9    25    49    81
Colour: Grey, White, Red, Blue, Yellow, Green, Brown, Heraldic
Stitching Horizontal, vertical, fishgrate, diamond
Fastening Laced front, bucled front, buckled back, laced side
Sleeves None Short (25% coverage) half (50%coverage) long (75% coverage)
Skirt None Short (25% coverage) knee length (50%coverage)
Edges Dagged chessboard, dagged triangular, straight
Middle layer either consists of mail
        shirt  standard
armour  16  4
Weight  6.4  1.6
Price    320  20
Mail shinyness according to quality
Edges Dagged chessboard, dagged triangular, straight, leather rimmed
or leather/fur (checkbox for style and -within bounds- colour)
Body  Thin  Med  Thick
armour  4  6        8
Weight  2    3        4.0
Cost      16  36      64
Style Padded leather, leather jerkin (2 styles), fur coat, nomad furs, leather scale
Edges Dagged chessboard, dagged triangular, straight,
Colour  white (fur only), black, red, light brown, dark brown
Sleeves None Short (25% coverage) half (50%coverage) long (75% coverage)
Skirt None Short (25% coverage) knee length (50%coverage)
Top layer has heraldry and defense, Colour and heraldry can be checkboxed. Different armor values can be thickness or amount of coverage
Surcoat
FabricThinMedThick     
armour  4  6  8     
Weight  2    3  4     
Cost      16  32 64
Colour: Grey, White, Red, Blue, Yellow, Green, Brown, Heraldic
Stitching Horizontal, vertical, fishgrate, diamond
Skirt None Short (25% coverage) knee length (50%coverage) Calf length (75%coverage)
Edges Dagged chessboard, dagged triangular, straight 
Armoured surcoat
armour  10
Weight    4
Cost        125
Colour: Grey, White, Red, Blue, Yellow, Green, Brown, Heraldic
Different armour plate settings
Skirt None Short (25% coverage) knee length (50%coverage) Calf length (75%coverage)
Edges Dagged chessboard, dagged triangular, straight 
Coat of plates
armour  10  16
Weight    4    6.4
Price      125  320
Colour: Grey, White, Red, Blue, Yellow, Green, Brown, Heraldic, light brown leather, dark brown leather
Different armour plate settings
Skirt None Short (25% coverage) knee length (50%coverage)
Edges Dagged chessboard, dagged triangular, straight 
Cuir Boilee
armour  12
Weight  6
Cost      144
Colour:light brown leather, dark brown leather, black leather
Different armour plate settings
Scale
armour  8    16
Weight    3.2  4.8 
Cost        80  180
Different armour plate settings, maybe different materials (at a protection penalty)
Scale direction (chessboard, fishscales)
Lamellar
armour  9    15
Weight    3.6  6.0
Cost      101  281
Different armour plate sizes (small medium large)
Different lacing and fastening
Style Byzantine, Mongol, Slavic
Sleeves None Short (25% coverage) half (50%coverage)
Skirt None Short (25% coverage) knee length (50%coverage)
Plate
armour  8  14    20
Weight  3.2  5.6  8.0
Cost      80  245 500
Breastplate and plaquard:
Different fastening
Different styles
Full coverage
Spaulder style, (25%arm coverage)
articulation style
Fauld style (25% leg coverage)

Now an armor piece may have sleeves, skirts, faulds, spaulders or something else to cover arms or legs, this will be bought as arm or leg defense and added to coverage value like a separate layer with skirts, and is one of the layers with arms. When adding arm defense from the fingers up or leg defense from the toes up, you just add numbers like when you normally buy armour.

Calculating totals
The complete armour value is made up out of the sum of all armour values multiplied by the amount of coverage. Thus, you first multiply the armour value by coverage, and then you add it to the defense total.

Let's armour someone as an example
Base armour first, just a gambeson with full sleeves and a skirt to the knees, leather boots and leather gloves, and let's give him a kettle hat
We give him a medium gambeson, with an armour value of 5. He now has
Arm defense 4=5*0.75 (no gloves so 3/4 coverage) Weight 2.5*0.75=1.9 price 25*0.75=19
Body defense 5 Weight 2.5 price 25
Leg defense 5*0.5+4*0.5 = 4.5 because where the gambeson isn't, the boots are, thus filling up layer one Weight 2.5*0.5+2*0.5=1.25+1=2.3 price (25*0,5=13) +(16*0,5=:cool: making 21 denars for the legs
Head defense 12 weight 2.4 price 360
Total price is 19+25+21+360=  425

Note the high cost of the helmet. This is warranted by the dificulty in constructing them, and you can't really protect your head with a shield, so you'll need it.

Weapon speed will be slowed like a reduction in agility of 3(2.5 rounded up) so penalized by 1,5%
Walking speed will be penalized by the weight of 2 (2.3, rounded down) by 1,5%

Now, this is nicely done, but we wish to armour him a little more, giving him a shiny mail shirt over his gambeson
Only his body armour changes
Layer one 5
Layer two  16
The total armour value will now be 16+5 =21 Not impressive, I know, but you can still hunt for a coat of plates (upping it to 47) thicker gambeson (to a max of 51) or even plate material (to a grand total of 55 armour)
 

Horses

Base price is by age, because I most often use the base table as the one with the most variables
Age  Riding req  Hit points  Maneuver  Speed  Armor  Charge  Price 
3            5                    80                35            35          5          8        490 
5            4                    90                33            33          5            8        490
8            3                  100                30            30          5            8        450 
11          3                  100                27            27          5            7        364
14          3                  100                24            24          5            7        288 
17          2                  100                21            21          5            6        220
20          2                  100                18            18          5            6        162
23          2                    80                15            15          5            5        90
26          1                    90                12            12          5            5        64
Fitness
 
Fitness  Riding req  Maneuver  Speed  Charge  Price
Lame          -1                  *1/2      *1/2          *1/2  *0,5
Swaybacked  -1              *0.8      *0.8          *0.8  *0,9
Regular          0                0            0              0        *1
Spirited        +1                *1.2      *1.2        *1.1  *1.5
Then sex
Sex  Riding req  Hit points  Maneuver  Speed Charge  Price strength
Stallion  +1            +5              -2                      +2          +3    *1.2    +1
Mare        0              0                +2                      -2            -2    0        0 
Gelding    0              0                  0                      0            0      0        0
   
Build
Build  Hit points  Maneuver  Speed  Armor  Charge  Price strength
Light  -10                    +3              +3          -2            -2          *1.1    -2
Regular  0                      0                0            0            0        *1.0      0
Heavy  +10                  -3              -3          +2          +2        *1.1    +2
   
and finally Breed
Breed  Riding req  Hit points  Maneuver  Speed  Armor  Charge  Price Strength
Sumpter      0              0                -5                    -5          0          -2          *0,5    4
Rauncey      0              0                0                    0            0          0          *10        5        (replaces saddle)
Steppe        +1              0              +5                  -2          0          0        *1.2      6
Palfrey        +1              0                -3                  +8            -2          0          *1.4    6        (replaces courser)
Courser        +2        +10                -2                  +3          +2        +4      *4        8        (replaces hunter)
Destrier        +3        +20                -5                    0            +4        +8      *10      10
       

Now, we wish to armour our horsie
So
 
Armour          Armour  Speed  Maneuver  Price strength  Charge
Base           
Surcoat                4        -1          -1              11        5            +1
Quilted surcoat  12        -3          -3            166      8            +2
Mail                    25        -6          -6            1042      10          +4
Lamellar              25        -6          -6            1042    10          +4
Coverage           
Short or front  Penalties, bonus and price *0.5 strength needed -2       
Full  *1       
     
So, we'll build a horse,
first select age
8
Ride 3, hp 100, man 30, spd 30, arm 5, charge 8 price 450
It is a spirited one
Ride 4, hp 100, man 36, spd 36, arm 5, charge 9 price 825
And a heavy one
Ride 4, hp 110, man 33, spd 33, arm 7, charge 11 price 910 str +2
It is also a Gelding
Ride 4, hp 110, man 33, spd 33, arm 7, charge 11 price 910
And of Courser breed
Ride 6, hp 110, man 31, spd 36, arm 9, charge 14 price 3640 str 10

We have a horse!
This is a 8 year old Spirited heavy courser gelding!
We wish to make its life a little longer and add a whole bunch of scales
Full coverage lamellar
Ride 6, hp 110, man 25, spd 31, arm 9+25=34 str needed 10, charge 18 price 3640+1042

Item quality for NPC's

I want to add a level-based item quality for NPC's

What would be better would be a system in which troops of a certain quality would have a better spread of weapons, but fitting quality
For instance: A swadian footman might have a kettle hat, but only of battered and crude quality, a Swadian infanterist might also have one, but it will be regular or thick. Best would be to have a preset amount of money and let the troops buy their kit from a preselected lot, but that is way too difficult. I think that setting selection parameters to let the AI use the sandboxing equipment is logically followed by setting one other parameter, being quality
For instance, a swadian infanterist gets a sword (L3,4,5_T3,4,5_W2,3_F3_C1_CL1,2_CC1,2_G1_GC2,3_P_1,2PC=CC) (this indicated, length choice 3, 4 or 5, being 60, 70 or 80 cm, and the same for, respectively Taper, Width, Fuller, Cross shape, Cross Length, Cross Colour, Grip shape, Grip Colour, Pommel shape and Pommel Colour, the last being indicated as the same as grip colour). Now one value is added, making
sword (L3,4,5_T3,4,5_W2,3_F3_C1_CL1,2_CC1,2_G1_GC2,3_P_1,2PC=CC_Q2,3) Indicating Quality 2 and 3, being chipped or regular. Now a knight also wants a sword, so we'll make a similar string, with a little more length (L5,6,7_T3,4,5_W2,3_F3_C1_CL1,2_CC1,2_G1_GC2,3_P_1,2PC=CC) This knight will have better equipment, so, adding the better quality will give (L3,4,5_T3,4,5_W2,3_F3_C1_CL1,2_CC1,2_G1_GC2,3_P_1,2PC=CC_Q4,5) The knight now has either a balanced or a tempered sword

What also is lacking is a quality type of a poorly made sword. If you wish a custom sword, but do not intend to pay a lot, you might try to get some lesser smith to make you a weapon. I propose the next list of weapons, which also includes a tempered and balanced sword, which is a masterpiece in this system
modifiers                    dam  spd  price
Cracked/Rusted          -4      -1    60%                       
Bent/Chipped              -3              75%                 
Crude                          -1      -1    90%                                 
Regular                        0        0  100%                   
Balanced                      0        2    150%                         
Tempered                    3        1    225%                     
Masterpiece                3        2    325% 
             

This will make people have to pay dearly to get their hands on the best weapon possible for them, but this is good. It is all too easy getting your favorite gear.
 
A very nice expansion on my idea! I love it, you win +5 kudos.

As for the polearms, perhaps you could have narrow heads, leaf heads, forked heads, hammer heads, bladed heads (bladed, as in similar to an axe blade, see halberds), etc.

On the part about the axes, various axe heads would have various weights, and thus they would each have their own effect on weapon speed. Bearded axe heads would provide the largest cutting surface and are heavier than smaller heads, so you would get more weight, more damage, but less speed. Perhaps you could also get different wrappings/grips for the shaft that could slightly modify speed?

For horses, I don't think you could modify the 'personality' of the horse, from docile to spirited. Instead, you would buy horses as you do now, and from the original unarmored ones (sumpter, saddle, steppe, hunter, courser) you would get your base stats. The armored ones would stay as they are, for people who don't want to spend the time modifying an existing breed.

Depending on the weight of the armor you put on the horse, the speed will decrease. Base speed is determined by the breed you bought from a merchant.

I don't see price as being a factor here, unless the option to customize your weapons was limited to or implemented in to the weaponsmiths. For a weaponsmith to create a custom weapon, price would of course be a factor, but for the player, you would need only the materials, the skill (but how that would be implemented, I'm not sure) and tools.

Bow accuracy shouldn't be modified unless the existing bows are also modified. Accuracy is always at 99, and if accuracy could be lower than that for custom bows then there wouldn't be an incentive to craft one. What type of bow it is (recurved, compound, flat, etc.) would determine your base statistics, and then the material(s) it's crafted out of would further determine the final stats.

I'd make a few other little changes, but overall, good job.
 
10 kudos? He'll be retiring soon at this rate!

It's a good suggestion, if the AI were to use customised weapons. Otherwise it would take up too much effort, I think. But because this seems like it would require a lot of reworking of the weapon system, I have a feeling it won't make it into M&B 1. A sequel/expansion pack perhaps?
 
I think it is very difficult to implement, what with the addition of a 3d rendering program inside the game, but would not be impossible, and very interesting. (and defenately not for 1.0, I wish to play that game this year preferably). I can see the use of a very specific part of an open source program or a scaler of some surfaces that connect through polygons or something. Something like an embedded wings3d that you give strings to remodel the basic sword into your 3dmodel like (for a sword) set length to 113, set width(base) to 5 set width(tip) to 3 set pommel type 2 set guard type 4. The armour and swords in the creating interface need not be 3d, so that can be done in real time easily. (I also vote for in-game heraldry by the way, but I dared not put it in these ideas as well)

Orion:
  I wasn't so sure about the docile and heavy sliders, but I thought the "mount"  part of the game would warrant some sandboxing too Problem is as well you would arguably have to wait for quite some time before the right mount was found, trained and fitted to make it realistic. I do think there is merit in such a system, but I haven't thought it through entirely yet.
  same with the bows, I do not use them very often, so I have no idea what impact several sliders would have, though I can understand some people would want a straight bow for power draw 2, and a nomad-like bow for power draw 4 weapons to have a full range, maybe adding these would do enough
  The axe heads (I forgot to mention) would of course be implemented to greatly change characteristics (I will change that shortly)
  Price would be a factor, because these items would be custom made by a blacksmith (best in an uncontested area, like the four ways inn) at a greatly increased price, and would take a week to make (or something). I am still thinking about the quality, rusted and chipped would be out of the question, the weapons being new and all, but I do not know if I want to make it too easy to get that famed tempered greatsword, maybe just price multiplication will work it out, a checkbox that will go from crude to regular, through heavy and balanced, onto tempered. (and someting dito for poleweapons)

Rageshrub
I would see this with the AI using it as well, there might be area's from which the weapons come, this would actually be a more exact replica of medieval weapons (sword: Piercingness for swadian foormen is in this area, length in that, width in that, they have a choice of pommels 3 through 6, with grip A or B and guard 1,2,5 and 7) and I am inclined to have lower end troops carry lower end weapons (ever had that strange feeling that the looter would better have used his cash on a regular falchion and some armour than a tempered one?) so you know you will have to hunt lords to get the tempered ones, knights to get heavy or balanced ones, men at arms for heavy or regular weapons, footmen have crude or regular ones, and the poor militia for rusted and chipped weapons.
 
This thread needs recognition. It's actually quite good.

*Bump*

Perhaps to represent some differences amongst the AI, their weapons (at least) could be randomly generated within certain presets. All current items could be removed from the game. It could all be random.

Khergits would have curved blade types, and would prefer lengthier weapons as they often fight from horseback. They would have recurved bows, and their bows would have the highest limits of all the equipment available.

The Swadian armor would be the most elaborate and offer the most protection, though it would also be the heaviest. They would have a mix of medium-length swords for footmen and archers, and long swords for horsemen, as well as their lances, of which they would have the longest and most sturdy.

The only things that would need to be put in the .txt files are the limits on the sliders for the different troops.

That's it. It could all be randomly generated, similar to the terrain.

The only item information the game would need to store would be temporary for the player, as the player's weapon shouldn't constantly be randomized. Perhaps the lords would have preset weapons as well, and defeating a lord and claiming their weapon would be nice way of collecting trophies.
 
All weapons that you loot or buy should be fixed, but since it is only a set of variables, this is no harder than saving a weapon type like you do now.

I calculated some things on sliders. I will show only the minimum, average and maximum slider setting

Double-edged sword
Slider length Short                          medium                        Maximum
Damage        15      16      17      18    19    20      21    22
2h dam                                                              22      25      29      30    31      32
Reach            40      50      60      70    80  90    100  110    120    130    140
Speed            125  119  113    107  101  95      89      83 
2h speed                                                          100    95      90      85    80    75 
Weight            0.5      0.6    0.7    0.8  0.9    1.1    1.2    1.3      1.5    1.6    1.7
Cost                300      480  714 1008 1368 1800 2310 2904 3588 4368 5250                     

Idea is, to have a setting with a gradient equal to the damage, so 11 steps in all, This will make it easier to use 11 prefixed weapon lengths for calculating whether or not a weapon hits, this will leaves less choice, but also less fully min-maxed weapons (so, I slide just over the damage border to squeeze out that last damage with minimal cost)

Piercing-cutting      pierce                            cut
Piercing damage  *110%  105 100  90  80
Cutting damage    *80%      90  100 105 110
I know, not that much choice, but if you look at the base damage, a large selection would provide no additional damage resolution, so 5% is the finest gradient here I think

Wide-narrow          wide                                          narrow
Cutting damage  110%  105%  100%    90%  80%
Speed                    80%    90%    100%  105%  110%
Weight                    110%  105%  100%  95%    90%

Fuller                      none  half      full
Piercing damage  105%  100%  90%
Speed                      90%    100% 105%
Weight                    105%  100% 90%


Note that with these choices and say 5 guards, 5 pommels and 3 grips, there are still 61875 possibilities for double edges swords alone
Prices are high, I know, but these are custom swords, non-custom swords will be about 1/10th of the price

(Edit, wide narrow made more sense, added recalculated price to all base swords)
 
I like this suggestion (mostly because I like collecting things :razz:). The face generator manages to warp the basic face mesh - perhaps the engine could support doing the same to weapons and armour too.
 
i agree sooooooooooo much but you should be able 2 change the complete chape of the weapon at the weapon seller guy which changes the damage 2
 
Great stuff. Seconded. Add customized horses (there are at least a few threads about it around) and I am drooling like all Pavlov's dogs combined.
 
Very good idea, I could only read half of it because I got tired of checking to dictionary, but I get your point.

Kings Court!
 
I am sorry, did I write bad English? I am no native speaker and actually use no English at work, or even very much outside of this board and a few others. I will try to make my grammar work better, as I am quite sure the words are correct, but I tend to translate dutch sentences directly into English, leading to odd sentences.
 
Zilberfrid said:
I am sorry, did I write bad English? I am no native speaker and actually use no English at work, or even very much outside of this board and a few others. I will try to make my grammar work better, as I am quite sure the words are correct, but I tend to translate dutch sentences directly into English, leading to odd sentences.

No no, It is not that, I moved from spain and english is a second language to me, so I sometimes need help with words.  :grin:
Checking a dictionary all the time gets tireing.  :lol:
 
Like i said in the Gigillicious thread, This idea can fit the need of some customizable armour who fit reasonably the woman's body. For people who play some Female characters or just for your hired Female Heroes.

The Thread : My face is a Girl, but my body is guy!

Anyway, it's not real to not have a Female body when you're playing a Female character.



Like i said... Me... I wan't a "Xena - Warrior Pricess" armour for Matheld while i train with her  :mrgreen:




:oops: ... I already know the way... ===>[]
 
Ok, I checked your whereabouts, so I thought it would have to be me

Base values for weapons as what I have now, sorry for the lay out, tomorrow, when sober, I will try to make it more pleasing (prices are the only thing skewered as well as still being a two handed after the three bastard options (needed in the original table for calculating)
Falchion
Length 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 110 120 130
Dam 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35
dam 2h 31 33 35 37 39 41 43
Speed 115 110 105 100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65
speed 2h 100 95 90 85 80 75 70
Weight 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 2 2.1
Strength req 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Price 22 35 51 69 89 112 136 162 189 218 247

Sabre
Length 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 110 120 130 140
Dam 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33
dam 2h 29 31 33 35 37 39 41
Speed 115 110 105 100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65
speed 2h 100 95 90 85 80 75 70
Weight 1 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 2
Strength req 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
Price 30 44 60 78 98 120 144 170 196 224 253



Double edged
Length 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 110 120 130 140
Dam 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
dam 2h 23 25 27 29 31 33 35
Speed 120 115 110 105 100 95 90 85 80 75 70
speed 2h 105 100 95 90 85 80 75
Weight 0.6 0.7 0.8 0.9 1 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6
Strength req 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
Price 39 58 81 107 138 172 209 250 294 340 389

Bearded axe Striking area 20
Length 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 110 120
Dam 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37
dam 2h 33 35 37 39 41 43 45
Speed 110 105 100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65 60
speed 2h 95 90 85 80 75 70 65
Strength req 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Weight 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 2 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5
Price 14 27 43 62 83 106 132 159 188 218 249

Dane axe Striking area 15
Length 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 110 120
Dam 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36
dam 2h 32 34 36 38 40 42 44
Speed 112 107 102 97 92 87 82 77 72 67 62
speed 2h 97 92 87 82 77 72 67
Strength req 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Weight 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 2 2.1 2.2
Price 13 25 40 58 78 100 125 151 179 208 238

Eastern axe Striking area 25
Length 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 110 120 130 140
Dam 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34
dam 2h 30 32 34 36 38 40 42
Speed 115 110 105 100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65
speed 2h 100 95 90 85 80 75 70
Strength req 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Weight 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 2 2.1 2.2 2.3
Price 35 52 70 91 115 141 168 198 229 261 294


Spear
Length 110 120 130 140 150 160 170 180 190 200 210
Dam 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
dam 2h 17 19 21 23 25 27 29
Speed 110 105 100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65 60
speed 2h 95 90 85 80 75 70 65
Weight 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 2 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6
Strength req 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Price 44 56 69 85 101 119 139 160 181 204 227

Dual purpose piercing/cutting
Expensive pole axe (more cut less pierce), pole hammer (less pierce, blunt swing), halberd (as is)
Length 90 100 110 120 130 140 150 160 170 180 190
Dam 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
dam 2h 17 19 21 23 25 27 29 31
Speed 110 105 100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65 60
speed 2h 100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65
Weight 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 3 3.1
Strength req 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Price 84 107 134 164 197 233 272 314 357 402 448

Medium Glaive (as is), fouchard (less pierce more speed), Bill(less pierce more cut)
Length 80 90 100 110 120 130 140 150 160 170 180
Dam 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
dam 2h 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30
Speed 110 105 100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65 60
speed 2h 100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65
Weight 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 3 3.1
Strength req 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Price 62 82 105 131 160 192 226 264 303 344 386

Cheep Scythe (as is), Godendag (less pierce, blunt swing),
Length 70 80 90 100 110 120 130 140 150 160 170
Dam 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
dam 2h 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28
Speed 105 100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65 60 55
speed 2h 95 90 85 80 75 70 65 60
Weight 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 3 3.1
Strength req 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
Price 38 52 69 89 111 137 164 194 226 260 294

This a raw, unbalanced form, just playing around a little. I will take responsibility and make something more sensible soon
 
Orion said:
The only things that would need to be put in the .txt files are the limits on the sliders for the different troops.

That's it. It could all be randomly generated, similar to the terrain.

The only item information the game would need to store would be temporary for the player, as the player's weapon shouldn't constantly be randomized. Perhaps the lords would have preset weapons as well, and defeating a lord and claiming their weapon would be nice way of collecting trophies.
By Jove, he's right! Though of course tweaking would be in order, lest you end up with some ridiculous gear. But it would add even more to the randomness of the equipment, since every man has the same yet slightly different equipment.
 
You should also allow things like making them out of bronze, silver or meteorite iron etc. The first two might be subpar choices for swords, (and indeed most bladed weapons) but they will look damned impressive and could be family heirlooms rather than functional weapons.

Also, the skill of the smith should be factored in for both the cost and quality of the weapon produced. An average weapon by a renowned smith should cost a fair chunk more than a good weapon by a journeyman. The experience of the smith should also be factored in when it comes to the waiting time for the weapon to be forged.
 
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