Fair enough, however can you at least consider changing the "ConsiderPeace" method to a public vs private method so I can just mod it? lol
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Of course, though, generally, these kind of modding requests would best be made in the modding board where Dejan processes them (or on the discord where Mray and Awomoruton [among others] tend to directly engage).
Thanks, didn’t know there was a place for that. Much appreciated
Zorion_no
Sergeant
So you say that there is hard 20 day of peace before a faction you've been at war can declare it again?
So thats not my experience at all.
Just this play now this was the scenario.
I'm with Battania as a merc mind you.
Battania and Vlandia at war for some time, but not excessive.
Western Empire declares war on Vlandia.
Vlandia offers peace to Battania.
2 days after peace Battania declares war on Western Empire.
Vlandia and Western Empire declares peace.
3-5 days after Vlandia declares war on Battania.
So in 8 days..
This "just isnt fun" imo
My guess is that Vlandia didnt like to pay the tribute they where forced to after Western Empire declared war on them.
Then since Battania got into war with WE, Vlandia figured "we shouldnt pay this much tribute".
Overall the roll to get peace without haveing a 3rd party involved is too high imo.
There should be peace after some time regardless, cause of "warfatigue".
The current system "to be blunt" is not good enough for the way I play.
Thus adding in a real hard 30 day peace that actually works, would do wonders.
In general maybe dial down the warmongering.
I mean inciting war is quite easy even if the other lords of the realm dislike you for it(but thats easy to fix relations with them if need be)
Inciting peace on the other hand is harder.
Beaten kingdomes, instead of going for peace will just hire mercs, until you've defeated them to a state where they basically "cant recover from in the long run".
The more land your capture the less intrested are your lords in peace(thus it kind of acts like a snowball effect, by haveing more peace, you could dial down that effect aswell).
If that is the case, then there may be a bug. A savegame in a bug report in the tech support forum would be great.
But really it's all the same side because it's all the AI's programing which is designed to slow progress (anti-snowballing). To the player this just feels like being arbitrarily
'd on by the game at regular intervals as you expand you kingdom. There's never any benefit to peace, they can bend the knee or they can stay in prison. Every peace declaration is just making me have to repeat another faction round up seven days later and my faction gains nothing from it.You guys programmed them (AI vassals) to be dum and think making peace is good when an entire faction is captive, that's a mistake and needs to be changed.
I've tried to provide some before on related issues but because of the nature and frequency of the AI decisions it was hard to know if they would be useful. Maybe if the war calculation happened less often, say only once a week it could make it easier to produce these kinds of saves to examine the AI calculations.
AI decisions (war/peace) seems to be random in like 7/10 cases.
Zorion_no
Sergeant
Well in 1.70 for me the war/peace seems even worse.
So far I have only had "peace" with factions cause of 3rd party declaring war.
Thus its the "endless or chain-wars" scenario.
You need to dial down the warmongering, I mean you've made a sandbox game, but there is no time to get involved with the sandbox elements(like clear out hideouts that is tanking security in towns or other issues).
Should you actually partake in the sandbox elements, then all kind of progress in terms of war is wiped away in a blink (since the AI on your side is very stupid to say the least in terms of defense).
Just bit "frustrating" that there is just endless wars more or less.
While its natural that there should be alot of it, there is a balance, atm "its not good or dont cater properly to certain playstyles perhaps?"
Need to be some kind of "warfatigue" mechanisme that is a 0 to 100.
Each defeat counts, each win etc.
Then you have imprisoned lords yielding -0,05 in terms of this will maybe needs to be lower?
So no more can a side have 40 lords in the prison and the other side not wanting to have peace.
Overall I think part of the problem is the merc-companies.
Some of the factions, specially the Empire which is filthy rich, seems to hire endless amounts of mercs, 10 companies isnt uncommon to see(need to put a cap on it).
So if you defeat a big army, they hire 2-3 companies instead of going for peace.
While its fun to do war, and well its the point of the game to some degree, there is the sandbox elements that I feel get neglected atm.
So far I have only had "peace" with factions cause of 3rd party declaring war.
Thus its the "endless or chain-wars" scenario.
You need to dial down the warmongering, I mean you've made a sandbox game, but there is no time to get involved with the sandbox elements(like clear out hideouts that is tanking security in towns or other issues).
Should you actually partake in the sandbox elements, then all kind of progress in terms of war is wiped away in a blink (since the AI on your side is very stupid to say the least in terms of defense).
Just bit "frustrating" that there is just endless wars more or less.
While its natural that there should be alot of it, there is a balance, atm "its not good or dont cater properly to certain playstyles perhaps?"
Need to be some kind of "warfatigue" mechanisme that is a 0 to 100.
Each defeat counts, each win etc.
Then you have imprisoned lords yielding -0,05 in terms of this will maybe needs to be lower?
So no more can a side have 40 lords in the prison and the other side not wanting to have peace.
Overall I think part of the problem is the merc-companies.
Some of the factions, specially the Empire which is filthy rich, seems to hire endless amounts of mercs, 10 companies isnt uncommon to see(need to put a cap on it).
So if you defeat a big army, they hire 2-3 companies instead of going for peace.
While its fun to do war, and well its the point of the game to some degree, there is the sandbox elements that I feel get neglected atm.
Kill the mercenaries clan at the start of the campaign with console and you will see factions want peace, if they lose a war and all of their heroes are in prison.
In one of my game vlandia wants to pay 3k denars per day, but they have no fiefs, but all of their heroes in prison.
The issue is indeed the mercenaries clans.
Zorion_no
Sergeant
I have tested this and also got the same result.
The Merc-clans need to be "tweaked" abit in terms of how many they can employ, ideally top 5, but better would be 3.
Since each of them have 4 membes all can command troops it means they can alone have 400 soldiers.
Now the issue is when they have 10 companies..
Either that they need to make the AI pay more for the companies even if they havent "earned it" so to speak.
So it will bleed their coffers dry, and over time result in abit more intrest for peace.
The way the game works atm is "frustrating" and or it may not suit my playstyle as great as they have designed/want it to be(different ppl different taste and all that).
I just want abit more of the warband feel, where if a kingdome got hammered, they would go for peace.
five bucks
Knight at Arms
Should there be a minimum duration for war and longer minimum duration for peace once a treaty is signed?
Zorion_no
Sergeant
Yes def on the war, or rather that tribute is timed.
So they dont declare war all the time to get the tribute down like they do now.
Supposedly there is a 20 day minimum for peace, but I've not really seen that being followed up on ingame.
However I'm now on 1.70 it seems likely that there is a minimum of peace now, easier to keep track of this with the new "duation" of war etc they added in.
I liked the system in Warband more, peace for 30 days, then it went into non-agression, and could after that be declared war all the time.
Dont get me wrong "I dont care if they dont do a better job" as sadly some of the modders who I've tracked already have a better "diplomacy" system in place already, so as soon as the game goes retail I'll use that if its not better unmodded.
I get that they cant cater to a few ppl, since its only 30 or so thats voted so far in the poll, its not really representative.
Maybe most of the playerbase actually love this state of endless wars, but for those who dont want a "total war" but more "warband" where there was time to lvl up non combat releated skills(trade specially), deal with issues etc.
I think the kingdomes need to focus on "more" to decide peace - lots of looted villages, lots of lords imprisoned, low security/low loyalty.
So they can focus more on the "internal affairs of the kingdome".
Now I only get peace if the 3rd kingdome declare war on the other, and even then it can take some time.
Focus seems to intent on the winning factiong(which the player typically is part of) dont want war enough after capturing land, but want to push on, this sort of lead to snowballing effect to some degree. (which opens up to more factions declaring war at same time etc).
Why do you guys choose so many Hard numbers - that just makes the world feel like 1 large standardized dice rolls. Why not make a variable _P which may be a hard 20 qualified by many factors such as Faction or leader aggression etc.... Thats what makes the world feel more alive and fresh and gives the player the satisfaction of determining possible or most likely outcomes based off of personality and world events -not off of the number 20.
We learned this in Text adventure coding back in the 80's with Basic
I inquired about this topic and it turns out that there are already different ways to modify the war / peace systems of the game. For one, you can mod the DiplomacyModel. More specifically, you can overwrite the GetScoreOfDeclaringWar and GetScoreOfDeclaringPeace to change how profitable a faction would view it to to declare war or peace. (Here you could adjust how much other ongoing wars or war exhaustion / duration matters.)
Having said that, maybe you are looking to directly adjust the thinking frequency handled in KingdomDecisionProposalBehavior.DailyTick or make other adjustments in this part of the logic. If so, you can remove the native behavior and add your own custom one to replace it.
Cheers for sharing that. I will raise it with the relevant people to see if they are aware of it.
Because players requested it (much like they have in the posts I initially responded to). Outside of the hard truce period, the system works like you describe.
My largest issue with diplomacy is the lack of explanation or reasoning, I've learned more about diplomacy and the why of the AI declaring wars/making peace on the forums than I do in game, the game needs to be more transparent about why the faction wants to engage in any diplomacy. e.g. "Our faction has suffered a major defeat, we should sue for peace"
five bucks
Knight at Arms
I like the hard truce period
Lesbosisles
Knight at Arms
There is already a hard truce period of 20 days after Kindgoms make peace.
Zorion_no
Sergeant
I still call BS on that, so many times the factions have declared war after much less, maybe 5-7 but most often its close to 20 but before.
So maybe my game is bugged, if its really true that there is supposed to be a hard 20 days.
I still think the peace should be buffed up to 30 like in Warband.
And that when a faction declare war it should last minimum 10 days, or rather add in more layers of diplomacy so they can adjust tribute there, or have tribute timed, so they dont declare war to avoid paying excessive tribute based on the power-ratio.
Now they declare war and get peace same day or day after, and its not really "great".(my taste your preference may be other).
Since the decision for war is abit rng, I got to know would it show in some log how many days its gone?
So its easy to spot, I know prior to it, you have the "peace" duration showing for x days now in 1.70 beta, and same for duration of the war.
But once its ended it seems to "wipe the history" or am I looking at the wrong place?
Interesting - guess i need to study up on the rest of the system
^this
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