One guide to kill them all.

[TheGME]

Personally, I've always found Ironflesh useful. But that's probably because I get hit a lot.

 

[sher]

The main drawback to Falcons is that you need Maiden Nobles to make knights. They're as bad as training Blademasters or Scorpions.

Maiden Nobles are pretty strong and cost effective - it's a complete waste of prestige to transform them into Falcons, while you can use this prestige to transform free Empire noble troops into SLC or PMAA into CKO sergeants. And you even can totally forget about spending prestige on CKO with several chapters in your own fortresses and KO "renown" quest which can be completed very quickly in large clashes and you can simply buy 100+ CKO troops upon completion.

Personally, I've always found Ironflesh useful. But that's probably because I get hit a lot.

It definitely will not hurt to have more HP but you have no enough skill points even with pure INT character to spend it there - other skills are far more useful than Ironflesh, I called it useless because of it not because it will not benefit PC.

 

[Savhos]

Great guide, learning much from it!

 

[Hanikura]

So the best way to get the most loot is for just you and one type of troop no matter the number in the stack.

even if there were such concept  - it was probably removed.

Tested this and results are clear:
- 20 soldiers of one type - will leave the same amount of loot as 20 soldiers of different types, dif. factions, mercs, etc.

testing scenario :
Same char (14 looting), same enemy attacked 30 times, same number of troops: 20 vs 20, same city to check total loot value  .
Enemy - party of Ravenstern renegade knights .

The only difference - "One type of unit" vs "20 different types"

1 type results:
-  average amount of items to loot - 33.4
-  average,  total value - 2558 denars

20 dif types  results:
- Av. amount of items - 34.4
- av. total value of items - 2722.

The amount of expensive, "above average", loot was pretty much the same.

So, now i am quite  sure that having 5 types of archers, 10 types of cavalry , 20 types of infantry - is the same as having 1 type of archers, 1 type of cav, and 1 type of inf.

The actual numbers in relation to the enemy - is different story, ofc.

 

[heckani]

So the best way to get the most loot is for just you and one type of troop no matter the number in the stack.

even if there were such concept  - it was probably removed.

Tested this and results are clear:
- 20 soldiers of one type - will leave the same amount of loot as 20 soldiers of different types, dif. factions, mercs, etc.

testing scenario :
Same char (14 looting), same enemy attacked 30 times, same number of troops: 20 vs 20, same city to check total loot value  .
Enemy - party of Ravenstern renegade knights .

The only difference - "One type of unit" vs "20 different types"

1 type results:
-  average amount of items to loot - 33.4
-  average,  total value - 2558 denars

20 dif types  results:
- Av. amount of items - 34.4
- av. total value of items - 2722.

The amount of expensive, "above average", loot was pretty much the same.

So, now i am quite  sure that having 5 types of archers, 10 types of cavalry , 20 types of infantry - is the same as having 1 type of archers, 1 type of cav, and 1 type of inf.

The actual numbers in relation to the enemy - is different story, ofc.

Thanks for this testing!

 

[Mad Vader]

So, now i am quite  sure that having 5 types of archers, 10 types of cavalry , 20 types of infantry - is the same as having 1 type of archers, 1 type of cav, and 1 type of inf.

Lol, this is actually in the manual. Just the number of troops matters.
http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/48700/manuals/PDX5505US_Warband_Manual_US.pdf?t=1440696051#page=56&zoom=auto,-112,526

 

[thermocline]

MV,

Can you post the units' "might value" used for autocalc? I saw in Yard1's modding thread a reference to this, but nobody posted it. Apparently the numbers are compiled into the Pendor data files and I don't know how to extract it--it doesn't show up as a data field in Morgh's either.

I am curious about how e.g. a berserker fares vs. a Sarleon Knight in autocalc, etc.

 

[Mad Vader]

Sure. Put this in Excel and play with it.
Strength is attack strength, defense is defense strength, horse is added attack strength for having a horse in field battles, MnB strength is the Native calc based on level (unused).
And before you ask, CKO and random/minor order values are dynamically updated.

Spoiler

Troop name, strength, defense, horse, MnB strength, troop type
Farmer                        12 9 0 1 Infantry
Townsman                      17 14 0 1 Infantry
Sellsword                      25 17 0 3 Infantry
Armsman                        34 29 0 7 Infantry
Bladesman                      74 33 0 23 Infantry
Sellsword Horseman            76 34 19 23 Cavalry
Mercenary Crossbowman          32 24 0 7 Archer
Mercenary Armored Crossbowman  54 28 0 11 Archer
Mercenary Horseman            56 24 9 7 Cavalry
Bounty Hunter                  38 17 10 7 Cavalry archer
Barclay Heavy Footman          125 39 0 23 Infantry
Barclay Sapper                101 38 0 23 Archer
Singalian Spearman            56 28 0 7 Infantry
Young Foreign Noble            32 16 10 3 Cavalry
Young Western Noble            34 22 10 3 Cavalry
Young Northern Noble          29 19 10 3 Cavalry
Young Eastern Noble            26 17 10 3 Cavalry
Young Southern Noble          33 20 10 3 Cavalry
Vanskerry Raider              25 26 0 7 Archer
Jatu Mercenary Rider          88 42 15 38 Cavalry
Mercenary Highlander          140 39 0 38 Infantry
Melitine Mercenary Lancer      96 34 23 23 Cavalry
Adventurer                    114 45 23 23 Cavalry
Maiden Scout                  13 13 0 1 Infantry
Maiden Warder                  22 15 0 3 Infantry
mercenaries_end                1 7 0 1 Infantry
Sarleon Recruit                13 7 0 1 Infantry
Sarleon Militia                20 11 0 1 Infantry
Sarleon Trained Militia        35 16 0 3 Infantry
Sarleon Footman                54 23 0 7 Infantry
Sarleon Armored Footman        82 30 0 11 Infantry
Sarleon Halberdier            130 41 0 38 Infantry
Sarleon Skirmisher            34 19 0 7 Archer
Sarleon Longbowman            55 27 0 11 Archer
Sarleon Armored Longbowman    76 35 0 23 Archer
Sarleon Man-at-Arms            100 39 0 23 Infantry
Marleons Heavy Cavalry        117 41 25 38 Cavalry
Sarleon Knight                175 50 29 48 Cavalry
Sarleon Nobleman              51 23 17 7 Cavalry
Sarleon Squire-at-Arms        109 31 22 23 Cavalry
Sarleon Deserter              47 24 0 7 Infantry
Prison Guard                  47 30 0 7 Infantry
Castle Guard                  47 30 0 7 Infantry
Ravenstern Recruit            12 8 0 1 Infantry
Ravenstern Militia            32 13 0 1 Infantry
Ravenstern Skirmisher          21 15 0 3 Archer
Ravenstern Archer              50 19 0 7 Archer
Ravenstern Warden              62 35 0 11 Archer
Ravenstern Man-at-Arms        74 34 0 11 Infantry
Ravenstern Footman            53 28 0 7 Infantry
Ravenstern Kierguard          109 39 0 23 Infantry
Ravenstern Highlander          165 42 0 48 Infantry
Ravenstern Horseman            60 34 21 11 Cavalry
Ravenstern Squire-at-Arms      49 30 21 11 Cavalry
Ravenstern Knight              106 50 28 48 Cavalry
Ravenstern Trained Militia    33 17 0 3 Infantry
Ravenstern Nobleman            27 20 10 7 Cavalry
Ravenstern Ranger              104 38 0 38 Archer
Ravenstern Mounted Ranger      88 38 22 38 Cavalry archer
Ravenstern Deserter            30 17 0 3 Infantry
Prison Guard                  38 20 0 15 Infantry
Castle Guard                  38 20 0 15 Infantry
D'Shar Tribesman              21 11 0 1 Infantry
D'Shar Tribesman Hunter        26 14 6 3 Archer
D'Shar Nobleman                46 28 13 7 Cavalry
D'Shar Noble Raider            47 31 15 11 Cavalry archer
D'Shar Noble Cavalry          88 39 24 38 Cavalry archer
D'Shar Warrior                105 36 0 23 Infantry
D'Shar Spearman                40 24 0 3 Infantry
D'Shar Veteran Spearman        84 28 0 7 Infantry
D'Shar Bladesman              121 38 0 38 Infantry
D'Shar Scorpion Assassin      264 42 13 58 Infantry
D'Shar Desert Bowman          37 25 0 7 Archer
D'Shar Dervish                66 33 0 23 Archer
D'Shar Dervish Raider          83 40 20 38 Cavalry archer
D'Shar Blademaster            189 43 0 48 Infantry
D'Shar Deserter                25 17 4 3 Archer
Prison Guard                  34 25 0 3 Infantry
Castle Guard                  36 25 0 3 Infantry
D'Shar Djaha Archer            124 35 0 38 Archer
Fierdsvain Recruit            11 11 0 1 Infantry
Fierdsvain Militia            20 15 0 1 Infantry
Fierdsvain Trained Militia    34 22 0 3 Infantry
Fierdsvain Axeman              81 37 0 11 Infantry
Fierdsvain Warrior            84 36 0 11 Infantry
Fierdsvain Huscarl            137 50 0 38 Infantry
Valdis Huscarl                160 52 27 48 Cavalry
Fierdsvain Huntsman            18 16 0 3 Archer
Fierdsvain Bowman              29 21 0 7 Archer
Fierdsvain Archer              41 31 0 11 Archer
Fierdsvain Deserter            50 21 0 7 Infantry
Fierdsvain Light Infantry      70 23 0 7 Infantry
Fierdsvain Berserker          287 33 0 69 Infantry
Fierdsvain Armored Axeman      101 41 0 23 Infantry
Fierdsvain Heavy Archer        59 37 0 23 Archer
Fierdsvain Noblewoman          43 27 12 7 Cavalry
Fierdsvain Sword Maiden        63 36 17 11 Cavalry
Valkyrie                      120 47 18 48 Cavalry
Prison Guard                  55 30 0 7 Infantry
Castle Guard                  38 32 0 15 Infantry
Empire Citizen                12 6 0 1 Infantry
Empire Levy Recruit            27 13 0 1 Infantry
Empire Levy Militia            42 18 0 3 Infantry
Empire Heavy Infantry          91 32 0 11 Infantry
Empire Knight                  174 40 27 38 Cavalry
Empire Legionnaire            174 40 0 38 Infantry
Empire Noble Legionnaire Recruit 72 31 0 7 Infantry
Empire Levy Hunter            39 15 0 3 Archer
Empire Levy Skirmisher        64 21 0 7 Archer
Empire Crossbowman            84 33 0 23 Archer
Empire Armored Crossbowman    121 41 0 38 Archer
Empire Light Infantry          52 26 0 7 Infantry
Empire Pikeman                79 30 0 11 Infantry
Empire Armored Pikeman        117 38 0 23 Infantry
Empire Gladiator              157 51 0 81 Infantry
Empire Nobleman                25 22 9 3 Cavalry archer
Empire Light Cavalry          35 29 23 7 Cavalry archer
Empire Horseman                69 33 23 23 Cavalry archer
Empire Deserter                16 20 0 7 Archer
Prison Guard                  42 27 0 15 Infantry
Castle Guard                  42 24 0 15 Infantry
Guardian Empire Knight        207 44 30 48 Cavalry archer
Pendor Recruit                12 7 0 1 Infantry
Pendor Militia                33 13 0 3 Infantry
Pendor Footman                58 26 0 7 Infantry
Pendor Swordsman              78 31 0 11 Infantry
Pendor Man-at-Arms            141 35 0 23 Infantry
Pendor Cavalry                113 31 23 11 Cavalry
Pendor Mtd. Man-at-Arms        137 37 23 23 Cavalry
Pendor Nobleman                30 20 10 7 Cavalry
Pendor Squire                  52 28 9 11 Cavalry
Pendor Knight                  108 46 28 48 Cavalry
Pendor Foot Knight            205 48 0 52 Infantry
Pendor Light Bowman            18 13 0 3 Archer
Pendor Heavy Bowman            59 23 0 7 Archer
Pendor Armored Bowman          95 32 0 23 Archer
Pendor Noble Bowman            55 29 0 11 Archer
Pendor Grey Archer            142 41 0 48 Archer
Red Brotherhood Thief          50 24 11 11 Cavalry archer
Red Brotherhood Guildsman      84 30 14 38 Cavalry
Pilgrim                        21 10 0 1 Infantry
Monk                          52 15 0 7 Infantry
Outcast                        11 6 0 1 Infantry
Bandit                        23 10 0 1 Infantry
Outlaw                        33 21 6 7 Archer
Brigand                        22 14 0 3 Archer
Notorious Outlaw              61 28 13 23 Cavalry archer
D'Shar Raider                  37 16 12 3 Cavalry
D'Shar Outlaw Chieftain        59 32 20 11 Cavalry archer
Vanskerry Warrior              137 37 0 23 Archer
Vanskerry Jarl                186 45 0 48 Archer
Mystmountain Raider            32 16 5 3 Infantry
Mystmountain Warrior          69 31 9 11 Cavalry
Mystmountain Shaman            112 41 9 38 Cavalry
Bearclaw Berserker            216 42 0 58 Infantry
Militia Recruit                19 9 0 1 Infantry
Town Militiaman                30 11 0 3 Infantry
Warden                        69 24 10 11 Cavalry
Sheriff                        75 26 21 23 Cavalry
Ranger                        59 33 19 23 Cavalry archer
Peasant Woman                  8 9 0 1 Infantry
Maiden Ranger                  35 21 0 7 Archer
Maiden Outrider                58 30 13 11 Cavalry archer
Maiden Cavalry                81 35 21 23 Cavalry archer
Maiden Adventurer              105 40 23 27 Cavalry archer
Heroine Adventurer            200 60 28 81 Cavalry archer
Hero Adventurer                167 67 32 81 Cavalry archer
Young Foreign Adventurer      59 26 14 7 Cavalry
Young Western Adventurer      57 29 14 7 Cavalry
Young Northern Adventurer      57 28 14 7 Cavalry
Young Eastern Adventurer      47 26 14 7 Cavalry
Young Southern Adventurer      63 29 17 7 Cavalry
Foreign Rogue Squire          80 33 19 11 Cavalry
Western Rogue Squire          82 33 20 11 Cavalry
Northern Rogue Squire          80 32 20 11 Cavalry
Eastern Rogue Squire          65 31 21 11 Cavalry
Southern Rogue Squire          87 34 20 11 Cavalry
Foreign Rogue Knight          149 45 27 38 Cavalry
Western Rogue Knight          147 42 24 38 Cavalry
Northern Rogue Knight          134 45 24 38 Cavalry
Eastern Rogue Knight          113 43 25 38 Cavalry
Southern Rogue Knight          141 42 20 38 Cavalry
Rogue Squire                  48 29 17 11 Cavalry
Rogue Knight                  161 44 36 38 Cavalry
Noldor Ranger                  218 49 0 58 Archer
Noldor Warrior                151 42 0 38 Archer
Noldor Noble                  283 55 30 69 Cavalry archer
Noldor Maiden Ranger          283 54 30 69 Cavalry archer
Noldor Twilight Knight        341 66 30 81 Cavalry archer
Jatu Raider                    69 32 17 23 Cavalry archer
Jatu Lancer                    91 38 28 38 Cavalry
Jatu Battle Rider              144 44 36 48 Cavalry
Jatu Warlord                  148 48 36 58 Cavalry archer
Snake Cult Follower            20 7 0 1 Archer
Snake Cult Armsman            43 24 0 3 Archer
Cobra Warrior                  102 34 39 11 Cavalry
Anaconda Knight                187 47 39 69 Cavalry
Serpent Priestess              174 48 13 81 Cavalry
Mettenheim Regular Infantry    109 37 0 23 Infantry
Mettenheim Regular Crossbow    86 35 0 23 Archer
Mettenheim Heavy Crossbow      145 37 0 38 Archer
Mettenheim Greatsword          147 40 0 23 Infantry
Mettenheim Hauptmann          245 43 0 48 Infantry
Mettenheim Forlorn Hope        323 49 0 58 Infantry
Veccavi Kral Guard            74 24 0 23 Infantry
Veccavi Krom Guard            118 33 0 23 Infantry
Veccavia Royal Archer          92 35 0 23 Archer
Veccavia Horse                116 36 23 23 Cavalry
Veccavia Knight                139 42 23 38 Cavalry
Veccavia Queen's Guard        202 44 23 48 Cavalry
Barclay Lancer                189 44 28 48 Cavalry
Barclay Conquistador          236 50 28 58 Cavalry
Singalian Horseman            48 30 15 11 Cavalry archer
Singalian Temptress            78 40 22 38 Cavalry archer
Burilgi the Usurper            282 62 12 81 Cavalry archer
Oswald de Fleur                149 50 30 81 Cavalry archer
Meregan Kierlic                261 53 28 81 Cavalry archer
Kodan Ironsword                126 51 35 81 Cavalry archer
Syla Uzas                      199 61 30 81 Cavalry
Sheik Shalavan                308 50 31 81 Cavalry
Sir Boris the Raven            200 49 29 81 Cavalry
Alaric von Brouhaha            189 41 0 48 Infantry
Wolfbode the Slayer            468 68 51 81 Cavalry
Maltise                        329 104 41 81 Cavalry
K'Juda the Ravager            346 50 40 81 Cavalry archer
Warlord Zulkar                230 53 42 81 Cavalry archer
Aeldarian                      518 109 30 81 Cavalry archer
Ithilrandir                    381 107 30 81 Cavalry archer
Obrist Heynrich                356 49 0 81 Infantry
Verante Kruus                  197 31 11 48 Infantry
Rufio Vincente de Villaviciosia 240 36 14 69 Infantry
Sebastokrator Kaspax          153 41 12 81 Infantry
Omen Seeker                    209 39 17 48 Cavalry archer
Wolfbode Honor Guard          214 44 34 58 Cavalry
K'Juda's Kajahar              177 43 29 58 Cavalry archer
Zulkar's Grim Rider            147 42 28 48 Cavalry archer
Doomguide                      196 49 23 81 Cavalry archer
Seer Initiate                  32 20 0 7 Archer
Seer Favorite                  102 28 0 23 Archer
Seeress                        531 98 26 81 Cavalry
Knight of the Dragon          148 45 28 48 Cavalry
Knight of the Lion            207 48 30 48 Cavalry
Empire Immortal                270 49 0 69 Infantry
D'Shar Windrider              170 44 24 48 Cavalry
Lady Valkyrie                  226 49 27 48 Cavalry
Knight of the Griffon          130 44 29 48 Cavalry
Knight of the Falcon          150 45 27 48 Cavalry
Knight of the Raven Spear      163 45 28 48 Cavalry
Knight of the Radiant Cross    156 44 31 48 Cavalry
Ranger of the Clarion Call    112 46 27 48 Cavalry archer
Knight of the Dawn            169 47 28 58 Cavalry
Knight of the Ebony Gauntlet  150 52 0 48 Archer
Shadow Legion Centurion        264 53 34 58 Cavalry
Silvermist Ranger              138 42 0 48 Archer
Knight of Eventide            167 48 28 58 Cavalry
New Order Knight              20 21 9 48 Cavalry archer
Devoured                      31 32 0 11 Infantry
Dread Legion Infantry          207 59 0 11 Infantry
Eyegrim the Devourer          382 104 51 81 Cavalry
Fallen                        17 32 0 11 Infantry
Fallen Footman                51 39 0 11 Infantry
Fallen Veteran                88 49 0 11 Archer
Fallen Warrior                110 55 0 11 Archer
Fallen Revenant                158 101 44 81 Cavalry archer
Heretic Minion                58 20 0 7 Infantry
Heretic Worshiper              79 36 22 23 Cavalry
Heretic Magnus                163 45 38 38 Cavalry
Heretic Invoker                46 39 22 69 Cavalry archer
Demonic Magnus                402 119 51 81 Cavalry
Refugee                        9 8 0 1 Infantry
Caravan Master                31 27 9 3 Cavalry
Kidnapped Girl                1 9 0 1 Infantry
Elder's daughter              1 8 0 1 Infantry
Heretic Leader                173 52 0 11 Infantry
Mystmountain Leader            224 42 0 11 Infantry
Singalian Leader              87 37 0 23 Archer
Vanskerry Leader              184 39 0 23 Infantry
Snake Cult Leader              122 37 0 23 Archer
bandit_leaders_end            1 7 0 1 Infantry
Heretic Leader                173 52 0 11 Infantry
Mystmountain Leader            224 42 0 11 Infantry
Singalian Leader              87 37 0 23 Archer
Vanskerry Leader              184 39 0 23 Infantry
Snake Cult Leader              122 37 0 23 Archer
Dragon Drake                  112 42 0 38 Infantry
Squire of the Lion            99 38 23 38 Cavalry
Empire Mortal                  150 39 0 38 Infantry
D'Shar Dustrider              120 39 24 38 Cavalry
Lady Einherjar                128 43 0 38 Infantry
Griffon Retainer              135 36 24 38 Cavalry
Talon of the Falcon            105 38 26 38 Cavalry archer
Raven Spear Mercenary          99 37 22 38 Cavalry
Radiant Cross Plaguewarden    118 38 0 38 Infantry
Larian Outrider                84 35 23 38 Cavalry archer
Dawn Wyvern                    117 43 0 38 Infantry
Ebony Gauntlet Hammer          139 38 0 38 Infantry
Shadow Legion Marinus          148 37 0 38 Infantry
Silvermist Halberdier          135 38 0 38 Infantry
Eventide Ghilman              74 41 25 38 Cavalry archer
New Order Sergeant            8 10 0 38 Cavalry archer
Maiden Noble                  133 43 26 38 Cavalry
Knight of the Unicorn          147 44 29 48 Cavalry
Snowlion Noble                111 43 28 48 Cavalry
Snowlion Lancer                55 34 22 11 Cavalry
Snowlion Footman              83 30 0 11 Infantry
Snowlion Longbowman            62 24 0 11 Archer
Mettenheim Spieszknecht        130 40 0 23 Infantry
Veccavia Uncut                197 48 0 48 Infantry
Melitine Archer                85 30 0 23 Cavalry archer
Melitine Infantry              104 33 0 23 Cavalry
Melitine Imperial Guard        284 42 0 58 Infantry
Melitine Lancer                96 36 23 38 Cavalry
Melitine Heavy Horse Archer    105 35 19 38 Cavalry archer
Melitine Griwbanar            211 50 25 58 Cavalry
Minor Order Knight            1 17 0 38 Cavalry archer
Minor Order Knight            1 17 0 38 Cavalry archer
Minor Order Knight            1 17 0 38 Cavalry archer
Minor Order Knight            1 17 0 38 Cavalry archer
Minor Order Knight            1 17 0 38 Cavalry archer
Minor Order Knight            1 17 0 38 Cavalry archer
Minor Order Knight            1 17 0 38 Cavalry archer
Townsman                      1 14 0 1 Infantry

 

[thermocline]

Wow you are awesome. Is the might value then a sum of the three values--attack, defense, and horse?

 

[Mad Vader]

Attack = Attack + Horse (field battles only)
Defense = Defense

Party attack = Sum of troop attacks
Party defense = Sum of troop defenses

Party battle casualties = EngineBlackbox(Enemy party attack - party defense)


If you need simplification, look at the attack values, they matter most.

 

[thermocline]

I see. This is interesting, I've been wasting my energy using gladiator stacks to autocalc Noldors, assuming because they are level 60, they'd do better in autocalc. I figured something was up when I used a Maiden/Lady Valk army to fight 4 autocalc battles and they took far fewer losses than I'd expect from a Gladiator army. This file explains why.

Looks like Zerkers really are the kings of autocalc! Empire Legionnaires and D'Shar Bladesmen are quite efficient too.

 

[Alavaria]

Giving your AI lords stacks of Fierdswain Berserkers and Empire Legionaires before autocalcing sieges, huh

Legionaries also have higher attack and less defense than Gladiators, good to know...

 

[thermocline]

Some more observations:

- PMAA aren't bad either. 141 attack for a level 30 unit. Better than a D'Shar Bladesman. However PMAA are just as hard to train as zerkers or Legionnaires, since they all come from level 20 troops.

- Also, interesting that archers overall do poorly in autocalc. Among the knights, Sarleon and Empire knights appear to be the best--everything else is trash.

- Most dangerous lords are the ones with zerkers, Immortals, KotL and Scorpion Assassins as household troops, since all of these units are very powerful in autocalc.

- Ravenstern doesn't have anything that's good in autocalc. Guess it's smart for them to play passively, since their army sucks.

- D'Shar has a few good autocalc units, but overall their lineup is worse than Fierdsvain's. LVs own Windriders, and berserkers are more common in Fierdsvain armies than Scorpion Assassins. This combined with Fierdsvain's high-renown lords would explain why D'Shar regularly gets punked by the Fierds.

- Empire vs. Sarleon appears to be a more even matchup, thanks to the strength of the Immortal and the Legionnaire. Still, Sarleon's cavalry-heavy armies might give them enough of an advantage in open field combat (roughly 20-30 extra autocalc strength per cavalry unit).

 

[sher]

Using autocalc is just low. It models real battles very poorly (it doesn't at all frankly) and is simply an exploit. Cheap one. To each his own ofc but what's the point in playing? It's almost cheating.

 

[SenorOcho]

The layout of a couple of those Empire castles is just low, too. 

"Yes, this totally makes sense that we'll just walk into their castle where we are surrounded on all sides and all their guys spawn in a tower where they can fire down on us immediately.  What's this trebuchet for that we spawn next to, anyway?"

 

[thermocline]

Using autocalc is just low. It models real battles very poorly (it doesn't at all frankly) and is simply an exploit. Cheap one. To each his own ofc but what's the point in playing? It's almost cheating.

It's a strategy game. Use the tools at your disposal to win. If the devs didn't want you to autocalc, they wouldn't have given the player the option to do it.

Kiting spawns, retreating from sieges after spending ammo, generating free honor troops from multiple chapters, and baiting the AI into attacking trap fortresses could all be considered exploits.

 

[heckani]

Using autocalc is just low. It models real battles very poorly (it doesn't at all frankly) and is simply an exploit. Cheap one. To each his own ofc but what's the point in playing? It's almost cheating.

It's a strategy game. Use the tools at your disposal to win. If the devs didn't want you to autocalc, they wouldn't have given the player the option to do it.

Kiting spawns, retreating from sieges after spending ammo, generating free honor troops from multiple chapters, and baiting the AI into attacking trap fortresses could all be considered exploits.

Generating troops is hardly an exploit lol. Everyone does that, if you play the game long enough you´ll see lords with diffrent knights they made themselves.

And just because the devs include something, it doesn´t mean you HAVE to use it. Sure you can use it, but someone not using it is way cooler and much better at the strategy game than someone using it. If he decided to use it, he could easily do the same as the person using it, but the person developes more skills.

Its low as in, you´re not getting any recognizition by anyone, and whatever accomplishments you show off will be laughed at.

I´ve seen so many people on this forum and on youtube showing off. And they think they are so badass. But they play on the easiest difficulty, using strategies that only works because the game is on diaper/pacifier settings. And those strategies would never work on the max difficulty which imo is the only way to go if you truly play pop. Why play a "hardcore mod" if you turn it into a baby game. You can, it can be fun. But its sickening when people do not admit that "look at me i did this..but it was on easy". They seem to never mention what cheap methods they used or difficulties.

That said, really its fine if you use or tweak or cheat or whatever you do. But some people claim "I tweaked the game, but only because this and that was annoying, it isn´t easier now though" Well it is, you changed the game. I.e in pop by default they made cows follow you. Well iirc in Australia you actually got to use horses in real life to get the cattle where you want them to be, they do not just magically follow you. But unfortunately so many crybabies have made both devs and pop devs need to attend to certain crybaby issues. 

 

[sher]

The layout of a couple of those Empire castles is just low, too. 

"Yes, this totally makes sense that we'll just walk into their castle where we are surrounded on all sides and all their guys spawn in a tower where they can fire down on us immediately.  What's this trebuchet for that we spawn next to, anyway?"

EAC don't give a damn. There's only one outrageous scene - obviously noldors were granted with it for their castle to make fair assault a suicide. Against regular faction it's doable, with high casualties but still.

It's a strategy game. Use the tools at your disposal to win. If the devs didn't want you to autocalc, they wouldn't have given the player the option to do it.

Autocalc is not for a player - it's for AI to fight without player. It's not sophisticated and precise but it's simple and fast to run the game smoothly. Cheats are always in the game, they also were "given". They've given autocalc to resolve trivial fights (autocombat is always for this in any game) if you don't want to play it in tactical mode to save real time.

Kiting spawns, retreating from sieges after spending ammo, generating free honor troops from multiple chapters, and baiting the AI into attacking trap fortresses could all be considered exploits.

These are fair exploits of inevitable flaws with certain risks. You have to work for them. Trap fortress is a clear bait but it still can be lost easily if you'll reduce its garrison too much and will not return in time. If you'll keep garrison larger you'll have to keep larger garrisons in other settlements. You can live without trap fortresses it's just not very funny to be on constant alert and be always ready to ride with 200-300 party to defend random settlement and replenish garrison losses with constant recruiting - it's not hard at all but you will not have pauses to do some other stuff like quests and unique spawns.

Free troops from chapters are pretty fair - it's a very slow regeneration and to rely on this only you have to know how to fight with minimal losses and invest heavily.

And I do not kite spawns into each other. I can kite them into campaign clusters to save some faction but no more and it takes time by the way. There's actually no need for this.

Unlike these methods player clearly knows what will happen if he'll field bunch of "Zerkers" against noldors instead of gaining loot and prisoners. They even not so hard to beat after all and using autocalc with them...

 

[Mad Vader]

If the devs didn't want you to autocalc, they wouldn't have given the player the option to do it.

We thought it was good to leave it in for people with special needs. 

 

[Alavaria]

Well it's Pendor after all, go forth and show no mercy, ordering your men to attack while you stay back...