Once and for all let's get workshops done

[Flesson19]

they have been a joke since 1.0 and we are 1.5.1 and when i mean a joke that is no kidding involved. there are so many examples of how they are not done correctly right now. It seems like most patches have a "flavor of the week" where one thing rules and one or 2 are junk
It should be somewhat of a simple formula do to it, Like produced item sells for - Good to produce value + how many produced - wages
so beer sells for 25, then grain buys at 7 so 25-7 is 18, it produces 10 a day so 18 * 10 is 180, wages are 35 so 180-35 is 145 that is profit simple
That is one quick example now explain this
Askar and Snaala have grain for 7, Askar sells beer for 25 and Sanala for 30, so Sanala has more profit yet I make 128 in Askar and 98 is Sanala
The only way I see that possible is if there is a random production per day, like 10 a day +/- 50% so one is making more items than the other
But Workshops are a vital income for a person early on and right now they are a joke and it is sometimes better to just hold your money instead of gambling on a workshop that will make no money,.
Example is right now it seems wool weavery are best and tannery make nothing, why does it change let simplify this and get it dealt with some it makes tings easier for all, and maybe get the next level or tier workshops going so we don't HAVE to rely on just fighting all the time so we don't worry about going broke.
4 workshops don't come close to offsetting the cost of one army and by clan tier 3, you have have 3 armies, how can you afford that.
Workshops are somewhat a core mechanic of the game that virtually every person uses, lets get it fixed so people can properly use them

 

[DeathKnightRZ]

Workshops need an overhaul.
-Hiring workers becomes a thing and maybe have a companion with trade/steward direct workers and manage profits. (Nova Aetas did the worker thing in Warband, loved the idea)
-Policies for trading of goods to the town and caravans, sell at a % difference for caravans at a bulk price(30 gold per linen in a bulk buy) vs town with an accumulating price.(25 gold going to 50 after buying 20 linens if the caravans bought from the town instead) to make the caravans choose the bulk option over trading with the town.
-Owning the stocks of said trade goods so you see more profit as your shop is the sole provider in the region with the best deals.
-Year long trade agreements with villages so they sell materials to your workshop first at a slight premium via bartering (charm) or extorting them (roguery)
-Investment levels up the workshop and increases wages but also increases income.
-Gangs to try and take your materials or halt caravans/villagers selling to your workshop and that they will bully you into paying protection money if you do not have a sufficient army backing you while in town.
-Make a # of finished goods (not applicable for wool weaverys, tanneries and smithies) go into an accessible box for trade plus allowing you to also dump materials into for profit if you bought the goods cheaper else where.

Maybe more ideas at a later time. If anyone had any of these ideas first, I'd credit them instead.

 

[stevehoos]

Good luck, TW seems steadfast in this latest flavor. Workshops are not worth buying at this point. Any shop that makes below 200 average gold is not worth buying.

 

[paladinx333]

Any shop that makes below 200 average gold is not worth buying.

I agree. That describes most of the workshops too.

 

[black_bulldog]

It was so much simpler in WB, I mean they even gave you an idea beforehand of what you could expect each week.

 

[Carolina Warlord]

Doing market research before buying a workshop as of 1.5.1 is a complete waste of time. My most profitable is the silversmith right now even though none of the surrounding villages produce silver or it has a low selling price. The workshop system plus the castle money pit issue needs to be fixed ASAP

 

[stevehoos]

Doing market research before buying a workshop as of 1.5.1 is a complete waste of time. My most profitable is the silversmith right now even though none of the surrounding villages produce silver or it has a low selling price. The workshop system plus the castle money pit issue needs to be fixed ASAP

Yeah I noticed this. I bought a tannery and it was making 0 dollars a day in town with the right resources.

 

[Bannerman Man]

It should be somewhat of a simple formula do to it, Like produced item sells for - Good to produce value + how many produced - wages
so beer sells for 25, then grain buys at 7 so 25-7 is 18, it produces 10 a day so 18 * 10 is 180, wages are 35 so 180-35 is 145 that is profit simple

That's more or less exactly how the formula already works.

The only way I see that possible is if there is a random production per day

I know the game doesn't explain this, but workshop income behaves a bit like caravans, in that the profits made each day are not funneled directly to the owner, but are spread out over time. Your daily income from a workshop is based on its total capital and will be [(Current Capital - Initial Capital) x 0.2], or in other words, you get 20% of the workshop's capital above 10k each day. It's done this way to smoothen out your income so it doesn't constantly jump around each day.

What that means is that the current prices of the inputs and outputs are not perfect indicators of what your workshop's income should be, as prices in the recent past affect your profits today.

Spoiler: Brewery

So in your case, maybe the price of beer was low in Askar for a few days, so some passing traders bought much of the stock and drove the price up, making your workshop extra profitable until the outputs drove the price back down. Or vice versa, a trader bought the beer stock out at Sanala and the price hasn't recovered yet, but your workshop just hasn't had time to exploit the price rise.

Also, the flow of manufactured goods away from a town is just as important as the flow of raw materials into a town. If a town doesn't consume the outputs in high enough numbers, or traders don't cart them away fast enough, then item stocks will build up and prices will drop, eating into your profits. Things like war and banditry can disrupt this flow and cause workshop income to become erratic.

What drives the price of goods in towns is a topic for another day, but I believe prosperity still factors in to some extent, so in higher prosperity towns the price increase on the expensive outputs will be higher relative to the price increase of the cheaper inputs (e.g. beer prices might increase by 8g, but grain might only increase by 2g). That will likely make workshops more profitable in higher prosperity towns.

tannery make nothing

Yeah, there is definitely something wrong with leather and/or hide prices that makes tanneries stop operating after a time. Hides and leather are nearly the same price, and workshops will not produce goods if the output price is <= the input price. In my game, literally every tannery has disappeared after going bankrupt and switching production type.

 

[Olympeus]

Yeah, there is definitely something wrong with leather and/or hide prices that makes tanneries stop operating after a time. Hides and leather are nearly the same price, and workshops will not produce goods if the output price is <= the input price. In my game, literally every tannery has disappeared after going bankrupt and switching production type.

The AI will switch up their own workshops? That’s awesome!

I wonder if Fred the Tanner will change his name to Fred the Brewer though?

 

[Moton]

They should also be upgradable. They should be open for raids from the local gangs wich you can solve either by putting guards there or bribing gang leaders. You should get choices when upgrading such as fortify or produciton teir 1 and you cant choose both wich means that you can either fortify it and maybe not needing guards there or bribing gang leaders or you choose produciton and use guards or bribes whatever you think is most profitable it said town.

I think I want more meaningfull choices in the game more dynamic and reactfull world. It is afterall a RPG game. This is only one example I have to achive this.

 

[Bannerman Man]

The AI will switch up their own workshops? That’s awesome!

I wonder if Fred the Tanner will change his name to Fred the Brewer though?

Yep! What happens is once the workshop's capital hits 0 due to long term inactivity, it gets sold off to a different notable, and the type changes to something else. Bankruptcy can actually happen to the player too, but the player's labor expenses are half of what npcs pay, so it's reeeaaally hard for a player's workshop to go bankrupt.

Once a Tanner always a Tanner though.

 

[stevehoos]

Perhaps this is why my tannery was making zero dollars.

 

[Apocal]

Doing market research before buying a workshop as of 1.5.1 is a complete waste of time. My most profitable is the silversmith right now even though none of the surrounding villages produce silver or it has a low selling price. The workshop system plus the castle money pit issue needs to be fixed ASAP

Jewelry gets bought up by caravans and hauled to high prosperity towns, even at pretty bad prices.

 

[Mizza]

In times of war the smithy and tannery should be making tons of money. but like olive ya said. they are almost worthless for the cost and risk of losing them if Town is taken.

 

[RobIsTheMessiah]

Here is a quick guide I wrote for passive income. The biggest take away for this thread specifically is that you should never buy a workshop until it's at least 5,000-10,000 prosperity. You might notice I haven't bothered with workshops or caravans in this playthrough, choosing to focus on small garrisons, tributes, and companion parties for passive income.

 

[Olympeus]

Here is a quick guide I wrote for passive income. The biggest take away for this thread specifically is that you should never buy a workshop until it's at least 5,000-10,000 prosperity. You might notice I haven't bothered with workshops or caravans in this playthrough, choosing to focus on small garrisons, tributes, and companion parties for passive income.

Your income from parties is nearly 13K.

If I’m not mistaken that is battle income, not passive income?

Remove the battle income and total up the passive income and overhead expenses and your income is negative. Add more fiefs with practical garrisons sizes for defense and your income goes further negative.

I’m not disputing that passive income can make you profitable but I am unsure how this particular screen capture shows this if income from parties is battle loot?

 

[RobIsTheMessiah]

Your income from parties is nearly 13K.

If I’m not mistaken that is battle income, not passive income?

Remove the battle income and total up the passive income and overhead expenses and your income is negative. Add more fiefs with practical garrisons sizes for defense and your income goes further negative.

I’m not disputing that passive income can make you profitable but I am unsure how this particular screen capture shows this if income from parties is battle loot?

Because I'm almost always at war. When you can count on your parties to always be battling then battle loot is passive, is it not?

Edit: I'm not sure where you're getting a negative number from either. Income added together without the parties is 3,924, minus 2,568 for expenses is 1,356. Lean garrisons are part of my strategy as well, if you didn't read my linked post; I've never lost a fief even with those tiny garrisons because of my war strategy.

 

[Apocal]

Remove the battle income and total up the passive income and overhead expenses and your income is negative.

14,081 - 12,725 = 1,356

Add more fiefs with practical garrisons sizes for defense and your income goes further negative.

You can actually get by with nothing but militia for garrison purposes once you have a decent amount (governors help here!) in a high-prosperity town. That means holding a prosperous town is doubly lucrative -- not only is the base tax income higher, but you get it defended for free as well.

 

[RobIsTheMessiah]

You can actually get by with nothing but militia for garrison purposes once you have a decent amount (governors help here!) in a high-prosperity town. That means holding a prosperous town is doubly lucrative -- not only is the base tax income higher, but you get it defended for free as well.

+1. This is a huge part of my strategy.

 

[NLCRich]

I think it has gone slightly off topic, as the ability to make some money from passive income in other ways, doesn't really change the fact that the workshops are almost pointless. At the current income they need to drop the purchase price of the workshops dramatically for them to be worth it, I think. However, I would rather see them flesh the workshops out more.

- More income from workshops
- Way to give your workshops source materials you yourself purchased at a low price
- Some way to improve workshops
- A way to assign an NPC companion/clan member to run the workshop. Ability to improve the workshop could be based on smithing skill. Currently there is no point for an NPC to have smithing skill, but this would give one.