Nodachi in Gekokujo and minor qualms

[Jozen]

I love this mod, thank you phlpp for being so awesome and yes I'll buy you a beer soon,

I'm not sure about the rampant use of Nodachi historically in Sengoku Jidai...

but this game elevates them to a unrealistic status whereby its even used as a cavalry weapon,

when historically Nodachis were an anti-cav weapon at best, usually shrine pieces or shock tactic sort of weapon that duelists like Kojiro Sasaki used...

But perhaps I'm mistaken...

Is it possible to diminish the importance of Nodachi's in the upcomming updates?

The range and speed make the katana somewhat obsolete, as well as not allow for it to be used on horseback?

I'd really like to RP historically with a with Yari and a daisho (katana and companion sword) but the Nodachi seems like a necessity at the moment, specially when all NPCs are running around using them.

Not sure if I've made myself clear.

 

[Jozen]

Another thing is that historically,

I believe Samurai would carry, Yari, Daisho, Yumi and Arrows to battle, but there aren't enough weapon slots for all of these in WB, so it's impossible to use them all and one has to focus on some gimp combination, like forgo the all important Yari or not use the companion sword, and use a Tachi... I suppose that's ok...

Just some observatons, but it probably only bothers me cause I'm OCD.

 

[Jozen]

Ah, another thing before I shut up. I tried playing as a Trader during my first few play-throughs and I found the Guild Quests to be either broken, or incredibly far and lame, and possibly broken as well, has anyone succesfully been a merchant in Gekokujo, and can you give me a few tips? I usually start out in Edo, and the first Guild Quest is to rescue the girl, I think, and perhaps there's another to find a bandit lair that is broken...
Anyone else have similar experiences?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Another thing is that historically,

I believe Samurai would carry, Yari, Daisho, Yumi and Arrows to battle, but there aren't enough weapon slots for all of these in WB, so it's impossible to use them all and one has to focus on some gimp combination, like forgo the all important Yari or not use the companion sword, and use a Tachi... I suppose that's ok...

Just some observatons, but it probably only bothers me cause I'm OCD.

Given that dual wielding is impossible in M&B there is no real use to having both a katana and wakizashi. So personally I just go with my katana, polearm, bow and a pack of arrows. You learn to live with it. And seriously, use the edit function and merge your posts from time to time. It's really annoying to have to read through many single paragraph sized posts.

Ah, another thing before I shut up. I tried playing as a Trader during my first few play-throughs and I found the Guild Quests to be either broken, or incredibly far and lame, and possibly broken as well, has anyone succesfully been a merchant in Gekokujo, and can you give me a few tips? I usually start out in Edo, and the first Guild Quest is to rescue the girl, I think, and perhaps there's another to find a bandit lair that is broken...
Anyone else have similar experiences?

What quests are you talking about? The only "merchant" quests I am aware of are those you pick up at guild masters. And those have not been modified in any way, shape or form from regular unmodded M&B as far as I am aware. And so far none of them have been broken for me. You just have to realize that because the map is much larger the potential area for bandit lairs and such is much larger as well.

I love this mod, thank you phlpp for being so awesome and yes I'll buy you a beer soon,

I'm not sure about the rampant use of Nodachi historically in Sengoku Jidai...

but this game elevates them to a unrealistic status whereby its even used as a cavalry weapon,

when historically Nodachis were an anti-cav weapon at best, usually shrine pieces or shock tactic sort of weapon that duelists like Kojiro Sasaki used...

But perhaps I'm mistaken...

Is it possible to diminish the importance of Nodachi's in the upcomming updates?

The range and speed make the katana somewhat obsolete, as well as not allow for it to be used on horseback?

I'd really like to RP historically with a with Yari and a daisho (katana and companion sword) but the Nodachi seems like a necessity at the moment, specially when all NPCs are running around using them.

Not sure if I've made myself clear.

I have newer felt any necessity to use the nodaichi. Ever. If anything I find the katana to be the perfect size for everything. If you are mounted, just get a katana and a huge spear and watch them die.

 

[Do not look here]

Huh, I go with naginata, yumi and two quivers, just to be sure my enemies are trimmed the right way. The choice comes more from an RP aspect, but even in previous version, when I was actually using swords, it was always tachi-nodachi combo, with latter for only really specific cases. I find them way too unwieldy, especially when you have to counter group of face-hugging AI with shorter weapons.

About the broken lair quests, which is actually broken? I'm pretty sure I've did all kinds of lairs so far and the only problem I had with them is that loot seems somewhat poor comparing to amount of bandits everywhere. They are more challenging than native ones, but that's about it. And nothing that can't be solved by some sharpshooting and well-leveled companions too. You also need to get the proper chain of actions for them, it's - you find the lair, you report to local lord for appropriate quest, you raid it. Tracking bandits returning from their raids needs some above average spotting and/or tracking, so you may be unable to finish the quest in time if all you can do is wander aimlessly around the whole province.

Although money rewards scale poorly with trip length in M&B, I found out that XP is always nice, especially with what you can additionally catch on a road there, so fetch quests are worth it, especially if they come with settlement relations (so you can build enterprise and stop caring). Same goes for trading, once you understand that you can be a merchant or an army commander, but never both, then all goes smooth and you can pass safely even through heavily infested provinces.

 

[soluuloi]

First,  cavalry did use nodachi on horseback so yeah, you are wrong.

Second, katana is poor on horseback indeed. I use a balance yama-something that can couch and both swing and thrust have pierce type damage. Nothing in the game can survive more than 2 hits from it. Then you can equip bow and arrow. My last slot is the flag pole for role play purpose only.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I have this nasty spear, can't quite remember the name. But if another rider and my self are charging one another and I connect it does 500 damage.

 

[KhivalrousBear]

First,  cavalry did use nodachi on horseback so yeah, you are wrong.

Second, katana is poor on horseback indeed. I use a balance yama-something that can couch and both swing and thrust have pierce type damage. Nothing in the game can survive more than 2 hits from it. Then you can equip bow and arrow. My last slot is the flag pole for role play purpose only.

you mean katakama yari? It's one of the most badass weapon, swinging deals piercing damage and it deals quite an amount of damage. Also there is a long one and a short one, can be couched. So useful

 

[PPQ_Purple]

First,  cavalry did use nodachi on horseback so yeah, you are wrong.

Second, katana is poor on horseback indeed. I use a balance yama-something that can couch and both swing and thrust have pierce type damage. Nothing in the game can survive more than 2 hits from it. Then you can equip bow and arrow. My last slot is the flag pole for role play purpose only.

you mean katakama yari? It's one of the most badass weapon, swinging deals piercing damage and it deals quite an amount of damage. Also there is a long one and a short one, can be couched. So useful

I just loaded up my game to check. The two are a Su Yari and Omi Yari (short and long respectively). I use the long one even though it can't be couched due to the 100 points worth of extra range. Used to use the short one as a lance but these days I tend to just walk around with the long spear as my sidearm. And what makes it better I got both and in perfect condition (Masterwork and Balanced respectively) as drops from battles with deserters relatively early in the game like before I even had a fief.

 

[soluuloi]

First,  cavalry did use nodachi on horseback so yeah, you are wrong.

Second, katana is poor on horseback indeed. I use a balance yama-something that can couch and both swing and thrust have pierce type damage. Nothing in the game can survive more than 2 hits from it. Then you can equip bow and arrow. My last slot is the flag pole for role play purpose only.

you mean katakama yari? It's one of the most badass weapon, swinging deals piercing damage and it deals quite an amount of damage. Also there is a long one and a short one, can be couched. So useful

Ah yeah, the katakama yari. I also got it from deserters, they are the best source of armor and weapon in the game. I got rich just by selling the leftovers.

 

[KhivalrousBear]

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Oohh I didn't know that other yari have different type of length too, as I didn't use them alot. I usually give my worst skilled companions with katakama yari, because it's the most easiest type of polearm that can be used and deals a lot of damage while requiring no strength lol. And perhaps in 3.1 where yari's will be like pikes from WFAS, normal stab and upper stab.

Ah yeah, the katakama yari. I also got it from deserters, they are the best source of armor and weapon in the game. I got rich just by selling the leftovers.

I equip good armor to my companion mostly from loot, as I'm too lazy to spend money for armor in the early game

However if I remember, Chinese swords are better than katana/tachi? Liuyedao and those things have better damage, more length, and speed (I didn't remember, but i think it is better in speed too)

 

[Jozen]

Thank you for your earnest replies.

I figure I'd play a merchant who carries a chinese sword, since they weren't allowed to carry the daisho,
as for the gentleman who said you can't dual weild, it's correct, but the daisho was a symbol of status, had nothing to do with practicality, yet Musashi was known to use his wakizashi as a throwing weapon when in need, or as a extra aid to hold someone hostage, yet musashi refrained from using it on 1 to 1 duels, unless it was necessary...

If you can find me a picture with someone mounted with a nodachi and the intent to use it, I'd be very grateful, as far as I'm concerned they didn't see battle very often, and soon after Tokugawa consolidated power he cut down all the Nodachis in Japan down to a size of a modern Katana, some survived in shrines though.

It's somewhat of a mythical weapon, from my understanding... the precursor to the anime sword. Seems like the Tachi is more likely to have been the cav sword.

Another small question, I want to usurp a Clan, Takeda shhh what's the best way to go about this?

Again, Thanks.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

However if I remember, Chinese swords are better than katana/tachi? Liuyedao and those things have better damage, more length, and speed (I didn't remember, but i think it is better in speed too)

They have roughly the same speed and damage as a katana but a longer reach. That is helpful some times but can be rather nasty when your opponent gets up in your face and you can't kill him properly.

 

[Jozen]

However if I remember, Chinese swords are better than katana/tachi? Liuyedao and those things have better damage, more length, and speed (I didn't remember, but i think it is better in speed too)

They have roughly the same speed and damage as a katana but a longer reach. That is helpful some times but can be rather nasty when your opponent gets up in your face and you can't kill him properly.

In my school of martial arts, if your opponent is right in your face you have done something wrong

 

[Articulo34]

In my school of martial arts, if your opponent is right in your face you have done something wrong

I highly doubt your school is full of morons (also known as AI) whom just want to hug your face.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

In my school of martial arts, if your opponent is right in your face you have done something wrong

Unless your martial art only ever uses kicks and does not punch people will be getting in close. Because that's the kind of range I am talking about here when I say "in your face".

In my school of martial arts, if your opponent is right in your face you have done something wrong

I highly doubt your school is full of morons (also known as AI) whom just want to hug your face.

Or people using short swords. To elaborate a bit, the range stat in M&B actually has a historical basis. When trying to cut with a sword you only really want to use the last third of the blade. That's where the best cutting performance is. So whilst a longer blade does offer advantages when your enemy is far away if he manages to get in close and personal than he can just murder you with his short sword and you can't cut as well, nor can you maneuver your blade very well to parry him.

And given that everyone in this mod has armor it is relatively easy to see how the tactic of charging in close (and remember, this is basically a 0.5 steps worth difference we are talking about, not meters) to kill you with a Katana is not that far out.

 

[Jozen]

I'll consider bringing a nice short stabby stabby tanto, for the tight spots in castles? I presume thats where you find bum rushing the face hugging occurring?

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I'll consider bringing a nice short stabby stabby tanto, for the tight spots in castles? I presume thats where you find bum rushing the face hugging occurring?

I happen to like fighting on foot. What I describe is what happens every time I face a samurai with a katana.

 

[KhivalrousBear]

In my school of martial arts, if your opponent is right in your face you have done something wrong

I highly doubt your school is full of morons (also known as AI) whom just want to hug your face.

you just made my day

But I am really, really curious if doghotel's brainy bots can also be implemented into gekokujo, so lords/high tier troops are now skilled warriors that can block well, feint, and just harder to beat.

Anyway, how do people back then fight in mass?? Do the guys on the front line duel each other or just try to stab as many enemies they see? As in mount and blade they just clump (is that a word?) up en masse, especially in castles and just fails to swing at the enemy because of the friendly dudes in the back.

 

[Ichimonji Hidetora]

If you can find me a picture with someone mounted with a nodachi and the intent to use it, I'd be very grateful

Here you go.