RedWolf666
Sergeant
never cease to amaze me.. great shots!
New scenes (update 30/12/2011: Saxon Village p. 32)
- Thread starter Adorno
- Start date
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Sergeant
Thorgil
Squire
Adorno, one question:
will Londinium be reworked? i think it should be MUCH bigger than other cities, with more roman buildings left.
Even if it was more or less abandoned for some time after the romans retreated, that what was left was still a huge city compared with other ones (for example reffering to Bernard Cornwell).
will Londinium be reworked? i think it should be MUCH bigger than other cities, with more roman buildings left.
Even if it was more or less abandoned for some time after the romans retreated, that what was left was still a huge city compared with other ones (for example reffering to Bernard Cornwell).
Actually the Saxon town of Lundenwic is not where the Roman Lundinium was.
The Saxons moved it further down the Thames, outside the Roman walls.
That's why you don't see any large stone walls or roman houses/ruins.
"The Anglo-Saxon London, Lundenwic, was not on the site of Roman London - what is now the City - but in the West End, around Aldwych, the Strand and Trafalgar Square. Then objects and traces of buildings which had already been found in these places began to make sense."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6700149.stm
Here you can see the Roman town to the right, and the new Saxon settment to the left:
I should probably have made it bigger, since it was at that time a large, important town.
But there are other things to do now.
The Saxons moved it further down the Thames, outside the Roman walls.
That's why you don't see any large stone walls or roman houses/ruins.
"The Anglo-Saxon London, Lundenwic, was not on the site of Roman London - what is now the City - but in the West End, around Aldwych, the Strand and Trafalgar Square. Then objects and traces of buildings which had already been found in these places began to make sense."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6700149.stm
Here you can see the Roman town to the right, and the new Saxon settment to the left:
I should probably have made it bigger, since it was at that time a large, important town.
But there are other things to do now.
Uhtred Ragnarson
Knight at Arms
Bernard Cornwell mentions that the Angles/Saxons didn't inhabit Roman Londinium because it was seen as cursed and a place for ghosts. I wonder if there is merit in that or if its just fanciful writing.
Thorgil
Squire
Adorno said:Actually the Saxon town of Lundenwic is not where the Roman Lundinium was.
The Saxons moved it further down the Thames, outside the Roman walls.
That's why you don't see any large stone walls or roman houses/ruins.
"The Anglo-Saxon London, Lundenwic, was not on the site of Roman London - what is now the City - but in the West End, around Aldwych, the Strand and Trafalgar Square. Then objects and traces of buildings which had already been found in these places began to make sense."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6700149.stm
Here you can see the Roman town to the right, and the new Saxon settment to the left:
I should probably have made it bigger, since it was at that time a large, important town.
But there are other things to do now.
alright. you proved me wrong with good data. nothing to add, forget about my comment and thank you for your explanation!
Now that we're talking about the size of towns, Adorno. I always wondered what scale you had in mind. E.g. do you mean to realistically portray all towns, or merely represent them in a smaller size?
Also, I always wonder what the population of a general town in Brytenwalda would be. Seeing as villages have (according to the 'station troops' option) around 45 inhabitants, towns would probably have 500 to 1000 inhabitants, no?
How many houses and workshops and bakeries and whatnot would that require?
(Just food for thought here)
Also, I always wonder what the population of a general town in Brytenwalda would be. Seeing as villages have (according to the 'station troops' option) around 45 inhabitants, towns would probably have 500 to 1000 inhabitants, no?
How many houses and workshops and bakeries and whatnot would that require?
(Just food for thought here)
Uhtred Ragnarson
Knight at Arms
Howitzer said:
I would think your number of 500-1000 is probably not far off. For Londinium it might be a little small, but probably not more than a few thousand. In terms of "houses", nuclear families really didn't exist until very recently in history, so I think you could easily expect a dozen people living in a single "house" (or shack, hut, hovel). So roughly, 250 living spaces in a large town?
The towns are obviously much smaller than the actual sizes.
I think Uhtred is about right, although I've read about even larger towns - several thousand - even in the 7th. century.
There's no way of making them realistic in terms of size.
Towns were also different then. Typically the high and mighty would have a fortified dwelling or Great hall,
and peasantry would live in houses surrounding the Great hall.
So some towns like Duin Foither or Dun At is a fortified centre with just few houses for the nobility and their servants.
The 'rest' of the town was houses scattered around the countryside with room for farms/fields.
Several forts/castles however are close to realistic in size, like Ad Gefrin, Ath na Foraire and Irish hill forts.
I think Uhtred is about right, although I've read about even larger towns - several thousand - even in the 7th. century.
There's no way of making them realistic in terms of size.
Towns were also different then. Typically the high and mighty would have a fortified dwelling or Great hall,
and peasantry would live in houses surrounding the Great hall.
So some towns like Duin Foither or Dun At is a fortified centre with just few houses for the nobility and their servants.
The 'rest' of the town was houses scattered around the countryside with room for farms/fields.
Several forts/castles however are close to realistic in size, like Ad Gefrin, Ath na Foraire and Irish hill forts.
Spongly
Knight
Uhtred Ragnarson said:
Victorian history books often used to say that the Saxons deliberately avoided old Roman sites and built new villages, so I suspect that's where that comes from. Archaeology is now starting to make a much stronger link between early Anglo-Saxon England and late Roman Britain, with many, many sites in continuous usage, and many Roman sites being re-occupied by "Anglo-Saxons". The main problem was that in Victorian times the Saxon archaeology of these sites was effectively invisible, since they built in timber rather than stone.
New town scene.
Hibernian town (Aileach)
Ireland is a dark spot in my resources, especially when it comes to larger towns.
There's good evidence of many stone structures, such as forts,
especially hill ringforts and minor settlements with a few stone houses.
But what did larger settlements look like?
I'm guessing densely inhabited areas would crop up around forts,
creating what we today would classify a town.
Example of fort: Garryduff I in Kerry County
Town Center
The Fort
Great Hall
Tavern
Prison
Merchant
Arena
Placed a megalith in the arena, inspired by Poulnabrone Dolmen
Besieging Hibernian town
Note: The AI automatically spreads out to use all ladders.
Hibernian town (Aileach)
Ireland is a dark spot in my resources, especially when it comes to larger towns.
There's good evidence of many stone structures, such as forts,
especially hill ringforts and minor settlements with a few stone houses.
But what did larger settlements look like?
I'm guessing densely inhabited areas would crop up around forts,
creating what we today would classify a town.
Example of fort: Garryduff I in Kerry County
Town Center
The Fort
Great Hall
Tavern
Prison
Merchant
Arena
Placed a megalith in the arena, inspired by Poulnabrone Dolmen
Besieging Hibernian town
Note: The AI automatically spreads out to use all ladders.
Schwarzwolf
Great map!
Uhtred Ragnarson
Knight at Arms
looks great as always. Kinda curious about the prison though... thatched roof and there is a torch on the pillar? Seems to be an invitation for a (albeit suicidal) escape. 
mikeyman89
Veteran
hmm i wouldnt set the prison on fire 
who cares tho it looks niece
who cares tho it looks niece
I don't think there are enough stonesHister said:
I guess you're right. I wonder what prisons looked like though.Uhtred Ragnarson said:looks great as always. Kinda curious about the prison though... thatched roof and there is a torch on the pillar? Seems to be an invitation for a (albeit suicidal) escape.
I'm just guessing they used normal houses with locked doors...
Uhtred Ragnarson
Knight at Arms
I would imagine something like a basement in a hall or a wooden cage. Not sure though, just my imagination.
This village is so pretty it makes me wanna loot and burn it right now!
