New Factions?

[Helge]

they would be quite similar to the Vikingr faction anyway

 

[Adviser]

Except they would lack maille and metallic helmets, will write more when I have more time.

 

[Hengwulf]

Except they would lack maille and metallic helmets, will write more when I have more time.

Darn, I wanted to post a scene from the movie Pathfinder here. Where the protagonist breaks the indian spear with his sword when they want to fight the vikings haha

sorry dude

 

[Hengist]

Isn't that a highly ahistoric movie?

 

[soybean]

Just out of interest, I've got near to no knowledge about the finnish people back then, wouldn't they be quite similar to the Vikingr faction anyway? That would mean, there wouldn't be any need of a finnish, sweden, norwayish or danish extra faction as we already have the Vikingr one. Or is there any real difference in item, weapon looking style except for the name?

Not quite. They had a same style weapons, but there are some minor differences can be found. They used a less armors but they had a lot of bows, because they defended their people in linnavuori (castle mountain)

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There was at least four tribes, hämäläiset, karjalaiset, savolaiset and lappalaiset (Nomadic people). These tribes united the similarity of language and religion

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Edit. These pictures are from museums of Helsinki and Suursavo, and University of Helsinki.

 

[Hengwulf]

Isn't that a highly ahistoric movie?

NOOO  but very appropriate haha

 

[Mupf aka Miwiw]

They used a less armors but they had a lot of bows,

Would be a Vikingr Vaegir faction. 

Could be funny to add those with more archer skill.

 

[Moeckerkalfie]

...

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Edit. These pictures are from museums of Helsinki and Suursavo, and University of Helsinki.

Hmm a crossbow and this interesting axe on the right. Are you sure it is from the right period? The axe is certainly an interesting one. I read a lot about the mysterious atgeirr/bardiche/halberd type axes that were mentioned in the sagas, and I can't recall seeing anything like this in nordic context yet.

And I much enjoy how the finns tend to be portrayed in such a "mongolic" way, but its probably supposed to set them apart from the scandinavians. I don't think they could be put into one faction though, although historically there was probably not a strict line that could be drawn. But the language itself is a quite important difference already, and the sagas are not quite clear on how alien the finnic people were to the scandinavians.

I recall a part of Egills saga that mentions them (Chapter 14 in this one) but then again I would rather see the finnics as the Kiriales (Karjalaiset?) mentioned here, and the Kven as lapps. I know that there was some competition between scandinavians, finnics and russians about who could tax the lapps.

So thats probably the northern border one would have to draw, seperating the finnish tribes, lapps and scandinavians.

In the south I remember the Novgorodians constantly struggling with the same karjalaiset, but also a lot of infighting between the finnish tribes. And for all I know we also have some finno-ugric tribes that were assimilated by the novgorodian Rus over time, so its hard to set them apart here too.

Most of this I only got from this article here, that was posted in the thread already:
http://www.allempires.com/article/index.php?q=Viking_Age_Finland

But over all its very tricky to get a clear picture of them, and I suspect what I wrote is not all correct either, so feel free to point me into the right direction.
For the game itself a finnic faction would be very low on the to-do list though, since they are on one hand so sparsely researched and difficult to identify with people who aren't familiar with them. It is also quite unclear how influental they actually were. Still if somebody is convinced that they should really be taken up into the game sooner or later you are free to create a thread. The more references and sources, the more likely it is that we can implement it. 

 

[soybean]

I recall a part of Egills saga that mentions them (Chapter 14 in this one) but then again I would rather see the finnics as the Kiriales (Karjalaiset?) mentioned here, and the Kven as lapps. I know that there was some competition between scandinavians, finnics and russians about who could tax the lapps.

This is true. They had a battles with each others.

In the south I remember the Novgorodians constantly struggling with the same karjalaiset, but also a lot of infighting between the finnish tribes. And for all I know we also have some finno-ugric tribes that were assimilated by the novgorodian Rus over time, so its hard to set them apart here too.

Well that theory is from 1700 and 1800 century. I remember that current researchs shows that Rus people were slavs? Ofcourse I cant be sure.

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Here you can see the regions occupied by the Vikings. But they were not settled in Finland area because it was already inhabited. I think that would be great if at least some western tribe would be added (Tavastians?). Maybe as raid faction?

Edit. Picture change.

Edit2.

I really think that Tavastians should be added, because even the Vikings were afraid of them. This is from your link:

Saga of the Olav the Holy raiding the coast.

"Then he (Olav) sailed to Finland, landed and pillaged there, but all of the locals escaped into the forests and took all their possessions with them away from the area/region. The king ventured far inland and through some woods; there were valley regions called Herdalarna. They took some property, but no men (Slaves? Prisoners?). When evening drew near, the King began his way back to his ships. But when they returned to the woods, they were confronted by men from all sides, and harrassed and shot at fiercely. The King told his men to take cover/protect themselves. But before they could get out of the woods, he had lost many men and several were wounded. He arrived at the ships in the evening. In the night, the Finns created a great storm with their witch-craft. But the king ordered to lift up the anchor and raise the sails, and they travelled along the coast during the night. The King's good luck was then, like so often, more effective than the witch-craft of the Finns. They managed to sail along the coast of Balegard and then out to sea. But a band of Finnish warriors followed them on land as the king sailed along the coast."

Edit3. This too from your link:

Politically, the finds of the heart-lands of Tavastia would suggest a remarkable level of unity and organisation. The chain of hill-forts in Tavastia formed a sort of defence-net, and from one hill-fort one can nearly see to the next. It is commonly assumed, that some sort of signal beacons were used to communicate between the forts, to quickly notify of danger. Some Viking sagas also tell of such signal beacons being used along coastal areas. Also, the construction and upkeep of such hill-forts would require far more man-power than a few villages had to offer, so one can assume that there was a certain level of unity, at least in issues of war and defence. The war-raids of Tavastians could also consists of hundreds and sometimes thousands of men, which is no small feat in Finland of the time, which is estimated to have had a total population of approximately 50 000. Such a level of apparent organisation and unity in action being exercised by regional communities of a few villages seems impossible, and there for I assume, that it is more than likely, that the Tavastians, at least the heart-lands of Häme, formed a closely-knit, semi-state like entity, which is quite remarkable. On the other hand, the number of hill-forts can also be seen as a sign of weak organisation. Tests with trying to signal other forts using the signal beacon method have so far been unsuccessful, and some think, that the sheer numbr of hill-forts would mean, that separate communities engaged in the construction of these forts quite independently, without consenting their neighbours. However, some hill forts are between the border og two villages, and this could mean, that the villages united to construct these places of refuge.

 

[Duke Daniel Milutin]

Maybe Carolingians? It seems to be a lot of info about them on the i-net compared to medieval celts and their armour are more original too.

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[Hengwulf]

Maybe Carolingians? It seems to be a lot of info about them on the i-net compared to medieval celts and their armour are more original too.

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Yes I thought about them yesterday . They also seem to be a logical choice really, given their importance in this relevant history.
This mod is set in 1066 correct? I think by that time though, their equipment would have become less unique then let's say 100-200 years earlier. (like the #6 and #10 helmets).

But still  a nice idea.

 

[Rath0s]

Didnt the saxons drive the natives out of England, and most went to Ireland and other islands around britain?

 

[Helge]

Carolingians -> 6 th - 8  th
Viking Age  -> 8 th - 11 th

 

[Celtichugs]

Didnt the saxons drive the natives out of England, and most went to Ireland and other islands around britain?

No.

The Romano-British and less-Romanized Celts either fled to Western England or central Wales. Infact, there is some good evidance of Romano-British settlement in central Wales.

If they did not flee they were simpley adopted into Anglo-Saxon society. There is little or no evidance to suggest the Saxons forced the natives to leave, or  killed them, or whatever. Infact, there is more evidance to suggest the natives were welcomed into the Anglo-Saxon world...

If I remember correctly, I remember reading that todays English in terms of blood-liniage and genes have just as much Celtic blood as they do Germanic. That said, doctors during World War I, or II, found that soldiers from Germany and England had larger Big-Toes than Welsh, Irish or Scottish soldiers - just a little peice of interesting information for you!

 

[Duke Daniel Milutin]

Carolingians -> 6 th - 8  th
Viking Age  -> 8 th - 11 th

No, Carolingian period ended in 987

 

[Helge]

hm... maby im wrong

 

[Moeckerkalfie]

I would rather just call them Franks, because Helge is in so far right that the empire had already been split by the time of the mod, and naming the entire faction after a weakening dynasty doesn't make much sense, especially if you wanted to represent the eastern frankish empire too.

Now as with the other factions I can only recommend starting a new thread about them and gathering useable references if you would like to see them implemented. But yet again we can only do so much new stuff, and implementing all the wished factions will hardly be possible, even though the franks would indeed be an important power of this time frame.

 

[Gothic Knight]

I would rather just call them Franks, because Helge is in so far right that the empire had already been split by the time of the mod, and naming the entire faction after a weakening dynasty doesn't make much sense, especially if you wanted to represent the eastern frankish empire too.

Now as with the other factions I can only recommend starting a new thread about them and gathering useable references if you would like to see them implemented. But yet again we can only do so much new stuff, and implementing all the wished factions will hardly be possible, even though the franks would indeed be an important power of this time frame.

There's no point in adding the Franks. The Normans look similar to the Franks in this period. Maybe Irish or something can be added? I can't think of any other European faction other then the Holy Roman Empire.

 

[Éadric]

I would rather just call them Franks, because Helge is in so far right that the empire had already been split by the time of the mod, and naming the entire faction after a weakening dynasty doesn't make much sense, especially if you wanted to represent the eastern frankish empire too.

Like I said in an earlier post:

"The Franks have also been suggested. But the Franks had been speaking Romance for more than a century by the year 1066 and would rather be the French. Very roughly, I see the beginning of the Capetian dynasty as the dividing line."

That is to say: the Frankish elites spoke Old French (a Romance language) well over a century before 1066, and not any form of Frankish (a Germanic language). And therefore, any such faction would be a French faction, and not a Frankish faction.

There's no point in adding the Franks. The Normans look similar to the Franks in this period. Maybe Irish or something can be added? I can't think of any other European faction other then the Holy Roman Empire.

The Gaels are already being added, so that basically covers the Irish.

 

[Oleg/Swedishking]

hello guys im back forme a short break

a sugestion for a new clan is svear/samer its the people who lived in sweden who werent vikings they were origanly the native people in sweden. they fought often against the vikings in their homelands