Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord Old Discussion Thread

[RoboSenshi]

I feel like influence should work less like a deductible currency e.g. gold and more like an abstract value e.g renown, right to rule, honour etc. In an ideal world influence would work exactly like real life but because it's a game there has to be a smart compromise and I think having an influence "level" better emulates real life influence.

My other problem with the feature is that renown is pretty much identical, except it's not a spendable currency. If they slapped the influence feature over it the two mechanics would cannibalise each other.

Having influence separate from the two would make it more transparent. I feel they should have both and make them both more streamlined and fleshed out. Fame and influence should be separate qualities imo.

To add to the above post by Robo, have the number and type of fief you hold slow the decay of influence.

I love that Idea.

In your example, you would be rewarded with some new influence for a victory, plus with the fact you won, which could mean a rise in rank/renown (and other results). So you're not just in the negative numbers of influence, you're also up in other things. Higher rank/renown also means you recover influence faster.

The problem is if the influence gained is lower than what you started with it becomes unrealistic again.

 

[SunFlash]

@Robo

"The problem is if the influence gained is lower than what you started with it becomes unrealistic again."

If I were running around banditing for the first bit of the bit of the game I would really hope I had less influence than I started with.  Not saying it's exactly like honor, but I can't just steal all this dude's cheese and then expect him to love me. 

 

[Is Milse Póg]

@Robo

"The problem is if the influence gained is lower than what you started with it becomes unrealistic again."

If I were running around banditing for the first bit of the bit of the game I would really hope I had less influence than I started with.  Not saying it's exactly like honor, but I can't just steal all this dude's cheese butter and then expect him to love me.

 

[SgtButters]

Where do people think Taleworlds are in regards to developing Bannerlord? Are they adding more content, are they polishing? My theory is they wanted to give us an early access late last year but something within the game, a core mechanic wasn't working as intended and they have to fix a chunk in their game. That's my theory anyway. Also, wouldn't it be sweet if Bannerlord was released shortly after E3?

 

[kalarhan]

Where do people think Taleworlds are in regards to developing Bannerlord?

they are too busy playing it to release the game

wouldn't it be sweet if Bannerlord was released shortly after E3?

yeap, but a Xmas release would be good too. Just don't make it a 2019+ release 

 

[Is Milse Póg]

Where do people think Taleworlds are in regards to developing Bannerlord?

I think they are still working on that board game (Checkers). But I really hope that they will finish late 2017 or early 2018 and if it's not in 2018, it's probably won't release at all, like S.T.A.L.K.E.R 2 or Half-Life 3... I think that everyone will buy it even if it a buggy piece of ****, so they shouldn't worry it won't be very polished and release sooner then later.

 

[redwood36]

The possible issue with influence coins isn't that it's a gamified system, it's that it's yet to have been fun in any other game yet.  If the logic by which the player can barter with the ai isnt transparent or nuanced then as a player I'm just left to slide the bar until arbitrary setting that the AI is happy with is met and that's that.

I'm happy to be proven otherwise, just stating what possible misgivings there are with it.

 

[SirMairaki]

The possible issue with influence coins isn't that it's a gamified system, it's that it's yet to have been fun in any other game yet.

Largely probably true, but that's still just your opinion.

If the logic by which the player can barter with the ai isnt transparent or nuanced then as a player I'm just left to slide the bar until arbitrary setting that the AI is happy with is met and that's that.

Isn't that the exact reason they're adding it? To make add a more transparent layer to the system that existed in Warband?

 

[redwood36]

Largely probably true, but that's still just your opinion.

Thanks for pointing that out to anyone who might not know.
Also if a thing can be true then it cannot be an opinion.

Isn't that the exact reason they're adding it? To make add a more transparent layer to the system that existed in Warband?

Here I'm referring to how, say, Civ V has an opaque system in that you just play with the toggles of what you offer until the AI seems to accept since the player hasn't received sufficient enough information to warrant an educated estimate.

Here the issue of transparency would be:
What exact value does this 'influence' coin render unto the AI. Can that AI trade it? Why should the AI value your influence at all? If the value of influence is predicated on past actions, why would anyone have any interest in paying those acts back after they have already been completed. These are the opaque elements that might present themselves during gameplay.

 

[Kaiji]

I have a strong feeling a lot of of the features Taleworlds have added will be modded out, reworked, or left unused out by most players.

An obvious example is board games. It will be an interesting gimmick for five minutes but will ultimately feel like time that could be more satisfyingly spent slaughtering enemies in battle.

I honestly think they should just release the game as it is, tomorrow morning, and let modders turn it into the game we want to play, as they did with Warband.

 

[SirMairaki]

Largely probably true, but that's still just your opinion.

Thanks for pointing that out to anyone who might not know.
Also if a thing can be true then it cannot be an opinion.

By "largely true" I meant that many would agree with you. I pointed it out because you said kind of matter-of-fact.

Here I'm referring to how, say, Civ V has an opaque system in that you just play with the toggles of what you offer until the AI seems to accept since the player hasn't received sufficient enough information to warrant an educated estimate.

Here the issue of transparency would be:
What exact value does this 'influence' coin render unto the AI. Can that AI trade it? Why should the AI value your influence at all? If the value of influence is predicated on past actions, why would anyone have any interest in paying those acts back after they have already been completed. These are the opaque elements that might present themselves during gameplay.

For the Civ relation, I think this will play out differently because as far as I can tell, they simply tell you how much influence each action costs, so either you can do it or you can't.

Based on many of the things they've talked about, it would seem as though the AI will have influence as well.

As for why they would value it, it'd be the same reason as why they value honor or renown: it's what people do. TW is just putting a visible quantity on something you see in the real-world.

 

[Niara]

The problem with the current system is that it's a one-way positive street, do some favors for lords, win battles, and everyone loves you. IRL it will be just the opposite, the more you rise the more enemies you will get. Intrigues, where are they? Especially if you start as a nobody rising through the ranks, why would proper lords like you. Essentially, they ignore the fact that the Byzantium was built on politics and intrigue, and not military might.

For influence, again look at Nova Aetas, I'm fairly certain this is the system we'll get in Bannerlord.

I didn't feel it like a one way positive street. At least it is not like you say in warband. lords like or dislike you based on your actions' influence on them. Of course they will like you if you liberate one of their relatives, or if you beat one of their enemy. Also they will dislike you if you make them prisoners or loot their villages.

 

[578]

The only way to make Warband's system work and be enjoyable is to make it in tiers with a shared system of relationships/fame. It makes absolutely no sense to deliver letters and herd cattle when you are the lord of 2 major cities. Instead, it should be like this:

Tier 1: Errand boy-

Deliver letters
Herd cattle
Do lord's personal favours


After a while, you gain fame, changing the missions you do drastically.

Tier 2: (Increased relationship increasing bonus)

Join armies led by a lord and help in the their conquest
Spy missions
Intercept caravans/ambush enemy groups
bounty hunt missions


Tier 3:
Assigned to burn/raid enemy villages
Ambush lords
Have a vital role in the kingdom.



This is a very rough concept without much thought into it, but you get the idea. Running errands quests should be gone for the end game. Making quests much more time consuming but much more rewarding.

 

[HUMMAN]

I liked your idea.

 

[redwood36]

For the Civ relation, I think this will play out differently because as far as I can tell, they simply tell you how much influence each action costs, so either you can do it or you can't.

Based on many of the things they've talked about, it would seem as though the AI will have influence as well.

As for why they would value it, it'd be the same reason as why they value honor or renown: it's what people do. TW is just putting a visible quantity on something you see in the real-world.

Yeah I mean, like I said, I do hope it plays out differently. Obvious TW made this great game, I feel one should always give benefit of the doubt when a dev has proven themselves as original and interesting as they have,

I don't ascribe to the notion that people 'just do' anything. The very notion that one has to 'spend' influence to get people to do something already implies they don't 'just do' it. People have often very powerful reasons for why they do something, perhaps even them not knowing that reason. Renown is a measure of accomplishment, what your past deeds have wrought. Honor is how much someone can implicitly trust you with a task. Also these are not bartered, but earned or lost depending on actions. Influence doesn't as easily translate, and still makes little sense to me why it might be bartered. Again, if you have done a thing to earn influence why should another lord pay you back?

So ex. I want a lord to come with me on an attack on an enemy castle, as oppose to joining the king. Here the idea is if I have saved up enough influence the lord will come with me rather than the king? The real reasons for why a lord might do that are slightly varied; recognition of my waxing power and the kings waning power, their desire for glory, the attack will have better results for this individual than the one the king is doing. None of those motivations have to do with my 'influence' in the sense that I think the barter nature of influence here is really most analogous to favors. He won't betray his king, or is long term strong self interest, for a favor.

 

[Ki-Ok Khan]

It has almost been 6 months since they launched the Steam page. Just saying.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/261550/?

 

[Sturog]

It has almost been 6 months since they launched the Steam page. Just saying.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/261550/?

Dont forget that the game got announced in 2012 which is now quite a while ago...

But hey, i dont mind this since all the news and footage we saw in the past few months seem to make the waiting totally worth it. 

 

[Ebdanian Admiral]

All 5 minutes of it

 

[CaptainLee]

It has almost been 6 months since they launched the Steam page. Just saying.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/261550/?

And can we have a proper sub-forum for bannerlord topics? I don't think that's asking too much and it's way past time.

 

[Plovercrest]

It has almost been 6 months since they launched the Steam page. Just saying.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/261550/?

And can we have a proper sub-forum for bannerlord topics? I don't think that's asking too much and it's way past time.

They're saving that card for when we get restless. Kinda like the Steam page. Everyone calmed down after it was put up.... for a little bit.