You're so butthurt about being a tier 3 player it's actually funny.
M and OGL's list thread
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My criticism is much simpler than Fietta's.
[quote author=M & OGL]However, you don't actually have to be offended by it or take it personally. Remember that this is a work of opinion, informed by lengthy personal experience playing with and against different players. Although the shadowy list-artisans have made great efforts to provide an objective ranking, it would be foolish to think their personal experience doesn't weight the results at least as much as match statistics -- it would be even more foolish to try to do any actual statistical analysis on the small and gappy result sets we have. The collective opinion of list-masons who've been strong competitors through all the eras detailed below is far more interesting and useful.
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Do know that if you're not listed, you almost definitely are **** though.[/quote]
Instead of following the two rules laid out in the pilot program--which are not burdensome at all, see the lists posted prior to yours--you both chose to openly flaunt them.
Your presentation is great, but you're bound by the same rules as the other list-makers. You have three days to get your attitudes in check & get your list up to spec.
[quote author=M & OGL]However, you don't actually have to be offended by it or take it personally. Remember that this is a work of opinion, informed by lengthy personal experience playing with and against different players. Although the shadowy list-artisans have made great efforts to provide an objective ranking, it would be foolish to think their personal experience doesn't weight the results at least as much as match statistics -- it would be even more foolish to try to do any actual statistical analysis on the small and gappy result sets we have. The collective opinion of list-masons who've been strong competitors through all the eras detailed below is far more interesting and useful.
...
Do know that if you're not listed, you almost definitely are **** though.[/quote]
Instead of following the two rules laid out in the pilot program--which are not burdensome at all, see the lists posted prior to yours--you both chose to openly flaunt them.
Your presentation is great, but you're bound by the same rules as the other list-makers. You have three days to get your attitudes in check & get your list up to spec.
? Rey said:You're so butthurt about being a tier 3 player it's actually funny.
One of the clear indications of the 'I'm rated higher than I should be so I can demean other players who were clearly rated unfairly', yeah you've never been tier 2 mate in the time you've played.
Habrak said:
Sure, you can enjoy the list too becuase you're rated from your tier 1 performance in the past 2 months giving you a fantastic lead.
Not true Fietta, I have been around for probably 4x as long as you were, and I were not top tier for two months 
look up some matches from 2012 if you have the time to, if not, do not say that you have any idea about what ur talking about. Just cut the discussion, I cba talking to you again cause you are ALWAYS against something, I think I am not alone in that, but whatever, fight for the truth my dear keyboard ninja
look up some matches from 2012 if you have the time to, if not, do not say that you have any idea about what ur talking about. Just cut the discussion, I cba talking to you again cause you are ALWAYS against something, I think I am not alone in that, but whatever, fight for the truth my dear keyboard ninja
Insane work put into this, very good job. I'd agree with most of the list, but at the end of the day, it's never completely to your own standard.
Fietta said:? Rey said:You're so butthurt about being a tier 3 player it's actually funny.
One of the clear indications of the 'I'm rated higher than I should be so I can demean other players who were clearly rated unfairly', yeah you've never been tier 2 mate in the time you've played.
Clearly that is exactly what I had in mind when I wrote that message.
I remember your ideas, criticism and other bs back from when I hosted Na5aSide IV and it is funny how after all that time, you still have not ever taken part as a co-host or host of any tournament, any list making or anything major at all, yet you're always the first to shove your opinion. I guess some things never change. Now, write me another wall of text. As Habrak said, - really cbf talking to you, same as talking to a ****ing lamp post.
Only because I can see the problem and am not afraid to express it, the only nice comments on here are people who are highly rated, you cant deny that either. This means they wouldn't think of flaming for other people's sake. I can also assure you rey, before I even comment on this post I've had messages about how dumb placements are. Just because I'm the only one who's not afraid to publicly criticise, doesnt mean I'm the first one to criticise. I dont see how me hosting a tournament has anything to do with this. I've also created a decent still WIP mathematical & opinion approach to lists. I'm working on things in the background for sure.
Habrak said:
Now you're being ridiculous, go back to forcing live on teams. You knew exactly what I meant but you're now deciding to be a smartass because I flamed you. You'll most likely reply to this comment even after your 'I cba to talk to u again' comment. Tara.
Best players have always competed against the best players to better at them. So there has never been a that much of a skill gap. Everything we use today in game had already been discovered by early 2011. I really don't understand what most people think about this, if you know the game better you win, this is that easy. Chamber, spam, chain, delay, distance fighting, flick shots, couched lances, bump and slash etc. all these things exist before and people who could do such things and mix their original skill with it became top tier players and competed against each other. Does it cheapen these best players' skill because all the rest of the players weren't capable of doing such fighting strategies? I don't think so, it even glorifies their skill in a time when though they know how do such tricks using them were actually very risky.
Anyway, I don't think there are statistical data before 2015 or 2016, so it is impossible to calculate them as almost all of the screenshots are not exist anymore. (I check old tournaments' sections too often, as nostalgic warband was more entartaining to me.) So if you want an all-time list, you have to be alright with this opinion based list, most probably mixed with statistics. You have to trust some of the opinion based placements, whether you accept it or not. There are many players who are in top tiers and who deserve it actually, removing them just because they don't have statistic evidence is just a robbery in such a list.
Anyway, I don't think there are statistical data before 2015 or 2016, so it is impossible to calculate them as almost all of the screenshots are not exist anymore. (I check old tournaments' sections too often, as nostalgic warband was more entartaining to me.) So if you want an all-time list, you have to be alright with this opinion based list, most probably mixed with statistics. You have to trust some of the opinion based placements, whether you accept it or not. There are many players who are in top tiers and who deserve it actually, removing them just because they don't have statistic evidence is just a robbery in such a list.
The rules are written in plain English, and as others have shown they are easy to follow. M & OGL are not above them. I'm not fielding questions or concerns about this. By not opting out, they implicitly agreed to follow the rules.
buttmad fietta strikes again. 
fietta, just shut up already, this list actually is surprisingly good, though i'd argue about placement of some CIS players (for an example Lares has never played as an inf at the times he was caller of RS and Ukrainian nc team in 2012, so putting him on the list as an inf is silly, let alone in tier 1 lmao), but doesn't matter rly. can't wait for players ranking by era!
Firstly, thanks for the kind words some of you have posted. Seeing some of the names in these lists made me surprisingly emotional too. Sometimes we can all get bogged down and forget our community spirit and rich history together in favour of sniping at each other and petty displays of egotism. Let's all enjoy posting in good spirits :^)
However, in your case, at least one of the team has more extensive experience playing with you than me and rates you very highly. I think it's worth remembering it's an all-time list and they might have a different perception of your impact over 10 years relative to other players. If it will help heal any bruises, you do feature favourably in the unfinished work-in-progress Players By Era list:
I do think you're being a bit silly, as an elected list posting specialist I'm allowed to post lists forged by other list-smiths. I understand your feelings and that's why I wrote the foreword about not taking rankings too personally, but I also wrote why I didn't give that much input to the cabal of list-makers - I might know some small specifics they don't but their breadth of knowledge vastly outstrips mine. As such I'm happy to admit I'm in a lower tier of list-maker than them, without damaging my perception of those players I know that they don't.Fietta said:
However, in your case, at least one of the team has more extensive experience playing with you than me and rates you very highly. I think it's worth remembering it's an all-time list and they might have a different perception of your impact over 10 years relative to other players. If it will help heal any bruises, you do feature favourably in the unfinished work-in-progress Players By Era list:
Top 10 Infantry 
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You have my humblest apology for my attitude, this was a slight misunderstanding on my part.
When I read the above, admittedly a while ago, I internalized that it was the spirit of the rule that was important and it was intended to filter out low-effort or joke lists. When I saw the collaboration between the list-artificers, I thought nobody could accuse it of being low effort or messy, irrelevant or uninformative, so just posting it would do. I hope you forgive this misunderstanding. Although both myself and the list-masters are very busy in the next 3 days, I'll do my best to post a list of sources without specifics of methodology as requested so the community can continue to discuss and enjoy this excellent list. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to require and I admire the balance you're striking, stopping low effort posting while also avoiding turning the rules into an anti-community box-ticking exercise. |
Would love to see Cristo on the all-time list (considering you also put Archivist)
