10:30 to 10:35 there is a looter doing nothing. Seems they have a problem choosing their target. 5 seconds totally idle to decide to switch melee while with few people they get 0,1 seconds to switch from stones to pitchfork with an instant animation and hit when you ride against them or you try to flank.
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Looters = snipers now?
- Thread starter Skornz
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10:30 to 10:35 there is a looter doing nothing. Seems they have a problem choosing their target. 5 seconds totally idle to decide to switch melee while with few people they get 0,1 seconds to switch from stones to pitchfork with an instant animation and hit when you ride against them or you try to flank.
The Great Grub
Sergeant
Look I had a lovely supper and all I said to my wife was that halibut was good enough for jehovah
Seeing as the Battanian Savage has the option to equip a sling in multiplayer, and the "sling" has the same animation as throwing a rock; it stands to reason that the looters are using slings.
You're missing the point of my comparison. I was saying that if a baseball, which is considerably heavier than the rocks often slung by slings, can be thrown at 90 MPH, why couldn't a sling stone be thrown at 60 MPH reliably?
And how exactly do my videos prove I don't know what I'm arguing against, aside from the fact that you keep changing the criteria on me? At first you said I wasn't testing against looters, so I tested against looters. Then you said I was using high-tier units, so I used low-tier units. Twice. In both cases, I skated through several battles without the slightest difficulty, and I barely got involved in any of them myself.
I think I'm arguing against looters being deadly accurate and being too great a threat for their purpose, but who knows anymore? Your claim could be that the butter-only diets of Vlandian Crossbowmen gives them inferior performance when compared to the grain-based pottage consumed by looters, by this point.
Agreed. If the looters have a problem, it's that they sometimes have difficulty deciding how they want to act. For now I'll say they're paralyzed with fear and doubt, but I'd like to see this aspect of the AI refined a bit.
Why do people always drag God into it? I don't go around making science jokes every time I have a point to make...
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The Great Grub
Sergeant
You don't get the reference
Even if it's a reference, someone did it at some point (hence the existence of the reference) and it baffles me why it always goes there specifically.
If they are using slings then that would explain a lot, but there really needs to be an animation. It'd also be a bit short range for a sling, then again looters being armed with slings would be quite harsh, if not overly unrealistic.
Bolton, I am not missing the "point" of your comparison, your comparison is utterly ridiculous. Here is why, although I'm sure you'll ignore it:
1. Looters are not even junior high baseball pitchers who practise throwing to get the fastest they can. They are desperate men throwing rocks.
2. Rocks and baseballs have more differences than simply weight. I feel that I shouldn't have to point out that throwing a rock and throwing a baseball, even if they are the same size, will be different.
3. Baseball pitchers throw their baseballs in a specific way in order to achieve that speed. Cricket bowlers have a run up. Looters have neither. Rocks are not aerodynamic meaning that they will not have the speed and accuracy of a ball. You can see the rocks that are being thrown. They are not smooth balls. They are larger than a fist. and ragged.
4. The rocks being thrown are not the perfectly smooth rocks that are used for slings. The reason being that you can't throw a pebble as fast as a sling can propell them. If you could, then why would slings exist? You say "RANGE!" but the reason that slings go further than a thrown rock is because they are thrown with more force and therefore go quicker. It's basic physics.
If you argue against the above Bolton then you're kind of showing that you can't be taken seriously at all. Baseball pitchers and slings? Seriously.
Wow, I wanted to point those out but you beat me when I am finding those stupid data. But I think the main point is: Hey man, it is a game! All those "It is possible in real life" argument is just nonsense.
Let's get back to the game, I find that unlike warband, which the accuracy greatly depends on the weapon proficiency, bannerlord has the accuracy depend on the weapon mainly. Weapon skill has very limited effect, so a peasant using a bow can shoot almost as good as some elite troops. I think TW should really lower the base accuracy of the weapons and make the skills count more, so troops with different skill level and our characters do make a difference. Right now the skill level is just something that limit the usage of high rank weapons and for leveling the character only.
And the stone with 14 ammo doesn't make sense at all. I think you can carry 1-2 pieces of stone. For the gameplay reason, I can accept a number of 4 ammo. And if the looters can have stone, why not the new recruits and peasants use stone too? This will make them more useful in the field and make the early game easier.
I think that the main problem is the ranged skill itself: if you equip all recruits with stones they will throw just like looters. Looters throwing skill isn't that high.
As a player with 5 throwing and bow skills I am able to hit every enemy on the opposite side of the arena, the only limit is the range of my bow, the same is with javelin. Bots work like the player but being bots they stay less time to AIM and have a ballistic brain that make them accurate against moving targets. They are also more stupid against missiles since it is quite easy to dodge their javelin in arena (at least in 1vs1) while I never seen dodging mine javelins...it is strange since they are very smart when blocking in melee.
If you equip looters with you starting bow and test their aim changing the bow skill you will barely notice any difference in term of hitting and missing: they will have a massive bonus to their damage. Right now high skills for bots AND player just means better gear (you can't equip good bows with low skills) and damage bonus. Wasn't this way on warband: those bandits with 100+ throwing skills were good headshotting you while low tier soldiers and looters aim was clearly worse and often missing against static targets.
In few words the reticle is too small for low skills...it should be huge for players and bots need something that simulate the reticle for them because I doubt they have it now.
As a player with 5 throwing and bow skills I am able to hit every enemy on the opposite side of the arena, the only limit is the range of my bow, the same is with javelin. Bots work like the player but being bots they stay less time to AIM and have a ballistic brain that make them accurate against moving targets. They are also more stupid against missiles since it is quite easy to dodge their javelin in arena (at least in 1vs1) while I never seen dodging mine javelins...it is strange since they are very smart when blocking in melee.
If you equip looters with you starting bow and test their aim changing the bow skill you will barely notice any difference in term of hitting and missing: they will have a massive bonus to their damage. Right now high skills for bots AND player just means better gear (you can't equip good bows with low skills) and damage bonus. Wasn't this way on warband: those bandits with 100+ throwing skills were good headshotting you while low tier soldiers and looters aim was clearly worse and often missing against static targets.
In few words the reticle is too small for low skills...it should be huge for players and bots need something that simulate the reticle for them because I doubt they have it now.
Eggs Benedict
I was literally thinking the same yesterday haha. They are overpowered with the rocks if at least they used a sling or something.
Ncallstar08
Recruit
I think the looter thing is an L2p issue. It rather then not be brain dead ez af grinding piles of them that’s not fun to me. Give the looters something to defend themselves. Also, the archers I always put them in position and they fire automatically. Idk if I have some default command set that you don’t.
The looter is supposed to be cannon fodder. L2p does not apply to a unit that really should be wiped out from the map after a month, as it was in Warband. I am playing this game to fight enemy soldiers, not looters in rags.
1. That's not my point. My point is that it's possible for an underdeveloped body to throw a considerably heavier projectile at 50 MPH. Take it a step further: The average 14 year-old girl, with practice, can throw an even heavier softball upwards of 50 MPH as well. Therefore, it should be reasonable for a lighter rock thrown by a grown man to reach speeds sufficient to sting if it hits you. Also, why can't they practice? What do they do in their downtime? There are historical cases of poor troops in the east training to throw rocks, why can't looters?
2. Obviously. Rocks are denser, so they're more dangerous if they hit you. People get hit by baseballs all the time and don't die, but rocks were used as projectiles in war.
3. I'll present this question: Would you stand still while some kid threw a small, jagged rock at you? Would you stand there unflinching? Don't say "Yeah, if I was wearing armor", either, because armor protects you against more than half the impact of the rock ingame. As someone who had rocks thrown at me when I was a kid, I can attest that a single rock can cause large welts and even break skin. Just a regular old rock picked up off the ground, thrown by a 14 year-old runt. They can break glass, for heaven's sake.
4. Behold.
Extrapolation:
- A sling can throw its ammunition at nearly 100 meters per second.
- A sling doubles the projectile's speed as opposed to the average throwing speed.
- This means the throw would be around 50 mps, which is just shy of a longbow arrow's speed.
- But this is based on very hard throws, so let's chop it to 30 mps.
- Assuming it hits the armor and sinks in about a quarter inch (0.006 meters) before bouncing off, we'll take (0.5 x 0.00005 kg x 25 mps ^ 2) / 0.006 meters for an impact force of 4.5 Newtons or 8.25 pounds force.
I don't believe it is. I believe they saw that people were 1v30'ing looters in Warband, felt it ran contrary to the realistic game they wanted, and balanced accordingly. You shouldn't be able to take on 30 enemies alone under any circumstances in a game that isn't specifically in the realm of high fantasy. Looters are meant to be fodder for your men, not for you. And they are just that in Bannerlord.
Except that they are also not cannon fodder for recruits. Sure, recruits win in autocalc. But try to take 10 imperial recruits against 10 looters in actual battle and then tell me that looters are fodders. And no, I am not asking you to make another video, please stop with the videos already
. Seriously, don't make it weird.Also I stand by the point that looters should not be able to stagger someone in high end gear with their rocks. You seem to think that they should, so there really isn't any basis for a discussion.
I suppose we shall agree to disagree, it's not like it's up to us. We'll see where developers take this. I wish they would just take the rocks away and make them pure melee myself.
Stop trying to talk sense into the fact that the looters are throwing those stones almost as long and accurate than i shoot my arrows with a nordic shortbow and 120 in archery.
They are rabble who are neither used to fight armed forces nor got an olympic training in rockthrowing; such folk preys on the weak and defenseless like farmers and the like.
That been said, its still completly possible to skill on them solo, you just need to be more careful, rest more often in the towns, etc.
In the end players will be able to change the equipment of the npcs anyway.
Maybe even without too much effort... maybe even Morgh is still alive and bored at some point.
They are rabble who are neither used to fight armed forces nor got an olympic training in rockthrowing; such folk preys on the weak and defenseless like farmers and the like.
That been said, its still completly possible to skill on them solo, you just need to be more careful, rest more often in the towns, etc.
In the end players will be able to change the equipment of the npcs anyway.
Maybe even without too much effort... maybe even Morgh is still alive and bored at some point.
1. A softball is still not a rock. Really really don't think I should need to keep pointing that out.
2. Rocks also don't fly well. So they will quickly lose speed. Rocks thrown by hand were very rarely used in warfare for the simple reason that they are not good weapons.
3. If I were charging on a horse with my lance couched aimed towards a looter, and I got knocked the chest with a rock, no, I would not forget what I was doing or stop lancing the looter through the heart.
4. A rock is also, not an arrow. Arrows are sharp and pointy. There is a reason why arrows are sharp and pointy, so they can poke holes in things. Rocks are not sharp and pointy. They are lumpy, with maybe some sharp edges, but not a sharp point. This means that they will lose speed very quickly when compared to an arrow and will not have the same impact. Some basic physics:
Pressure = Force/Area
Say a longbow arrow with a point that is 1mm across at the point (which is somewhat blunt to be honest), and the rock that is thrown by the looter is 150mm across. For the sake of making the formula easy and simple, we will say that the force applied by the arrow and the rock are the same - the arrow will be travelling faster but have less mass, whereas the rock will be slower but have more mass. So let's say the force is 1, for the sake of argument.
Arrow:
1/1=1
Rock:
1/150=0.007
Therefore the arrow is exerting almost 150 times as much pressure on the target as the rock is. That is litterally why weapons have sharp edges, and why arrows were used as weapons and rocks thrown by hand were not.
The above formula is indeed wrong - the arrow would have a lot more force than the rock, but I hope that's sufficient evidence that rocks are not arrows.
That is why what you are saying is nonsense.
TL;DR:
Looters have too many rocks, can throw at too long a range, and can do too much damage in particular by stunning you. Your realism argument is ridiculous.
