Looters = snipers now?

Skornz

Recruit
Best answers
0
So over night every looter attended sniper school and can headshot with stones from redicious distances? what the actual hell?

Can't ride around even small groups of looters now because they all hit me even when going full speed on a decent horse, looters are early game enemies, you're supposed to be able to kill them without wearing armor.

and archers? what the hell, the archers in my army is bloody useless, don't fire even when the enemy is 10 paces ahead of em, but the enemy archers litter me with arrows before I get within half a mile of them?
 

lukkyb

Recruit
Best answers
0
it annoys me how even late game with higher level armour I still get stunned by rocks while in warband this was not the case
 

Barak666

Recruit
Best answers
0
Didn't play since the new hot fix, but in case of archers who don't fire, I remark in my game that in some situation (like attaking bandit hideout) the archers hold their fire by default, I have to press F4 to activate the "fire at will" command. Can it be the reason why your archers don't shoot?
 

ilanmeiss

Recruit
Best answers
0
i think theres a problem with the cease fire/fire at will commands, if i say nothing, my archers will fire regularly and if i say cease fire and fire at will, even while the enemy is really far away they will only start shooting when they are like 10 meters away
 

Wolfsblut

Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Best answers
0
Aye, they throw those rocks doubla as far and precise as your blind archers can shoot their bows.
NPC-ranged behavior is horrible.
Seems to be completly driven by ridiculus accuracy bonus for hostiles.
Otherwise i can't explain why your own ranged troops sucks while the hostile ones are walking machine guns.

I guess a professionpoint-related-system like in Warband that was transparent and viable for NPCs and Players alike
was not fancy enough.
 

Maniccc

Recruit
Best answers
0
Yes, looters with their stones is a bit ridiculous, making them some of the more dangerous enemies in the game. Nothing is more absurd than rag wearing starving thugs out-throwing the shooting of professional archers, having unerring accuracy, a TON of rocks each. A large number of looters can smash up your tier 2 army by tossing rocks at them.... They are supposed to be the weakest trash mobs of the game.
 

VincentNZ

Recruit
Best answers
0
To be fair, naturally when you meet 6 guys all throwing rocks at the same time, there will be hits and therefore casualties.
 

Maniccc

Recruit
Best answers
0
To be fair, naturally when you meet 6 guys all throwing rocks at the same time, there will be hits and therefore casualties.
To be fair, they shouldn't have about 10 fist sized rocks in their pockets. Thrown rocks are inaccurate, they have short range (as in maybe 10 feet of effectiveness), thrown rocks are going to have little force against armor, and why can't my men have rocks, too? Looters are silly as is, they need major rebalancing. Unless all looters are basically pro baseball pitchers with arms that can launch rocks with precision at 20 meters distance.
 

MDC13

Recruit
Best answers
0
I am playing at maximum difficulty and it is practically unplayable ... the looters constantly hammer me I can't even hit them, the problem is not only the stones they throw but also in close combat they hit me in charge on horseback with very short weapons
the worst thing about rocks, and throwing weapons in general, is that they are more precise than arrows
it seems as if there is no skill to unlock accuracy as with the bow
 

VincentNZ

Recruit
Best answers
0
To be fair, they shouldn't have about 10 fist sized rocks in their pockets. Thrown rocks are inaccurate, they have short range (as in maybe 10 feet of effectiveness), thrown rocks are going to have little force against armor, and why can't my men have rocks, too? Looters are silly as is, they need major rebalancing. Unless all looters are basically pro baseball pitchers with arms that can launch rocks with precision at 20 meters distance.
I think it is good that they have these rocks, they are the equivalent of peasants. It is also to avoid farming the lowest troop type til infinity to farm skills and levels. So they pose some threat to small parties and lone players, instead of just being cannon fodder.
I do wonder how many they have, must be around 15 of them. Theoretically they could just pick them up from the ground. I tendencially agree that the damage should be decreased, also the accuracy slightly, so that you do not need to play a horse archer to easily dispatch them, but the general idea is nice, espeically since the only other enemy types you can meet otherwise are bandits in the early to midgame.
Once we have things like deserters or other troop types roaming the world, nerfing looters a little, would make sense.
 

Maniccc

Recruit
Best answers
0
I think it is good that they have these rocks, they are the equivalent of peasants. It is also to avoid farming the lowest troop type til infinity to farm skills and levels. So they pose some threat to small parties and lone players, instead of just being cannon fodder.
I do wonder how many they have, must be around 15 of them. Theoretically they could just pick them up from the ground. I tendencially agree that the damage should be decreased, also the accuracy slightly, so that you do not need to play a horse archer to easily dispatch them, but the general idea is nice, espeically since the only other enemy types you can meet otherwise are bandits in the early to midgame.
Once we have things like deserters or other troop types roaming the world, nerfing looters a little, would make sense.
The problem is not that they have a few rocks, but that they have so many, that they have more range than a javelin, and pinpoint accuracy. And I'm not sure if there's time to look around on the ground for a rock that's not too big or too small to make a useful thrown weapon during a battle, so they have to carry all of these things on their person. You try carrying around 10 or 15 fist sized rocks in your pockets. Arrows and javelins and bolts have quivers. Where are they keeping all those rocks?

You can, of course, kill a person by throwing rocks at them...eventually.... But an armored person, even lightly armored, facing you in combat is going to mostly laugh at a thrown rock, easily stepping aside, or blocking it with a shield, even catching it. Now, if they had slings.... But then they'd be as deadly as those ridiculous forest bandits.
 

ltcem

Recruit
Best answers
0
I think the problem is likely all the troops has overpowered weapon skills. Even looters has 40 in one-hand and 40 in throwing. Forest bandit even has 150 in bow. The high skill level give a boost to their accuracy.
 

Sepone

Regular
Best answers
0
I agree that their accuracy is ridiculous. Even while riding at full speed in a 90° angle to them they hit more often than they miss! It doesn't feel right.
 

VincentNZ

Recruit
Best answers
0
The problem is not that they have a few rocks, but that they have so many, that they have more range than a javelin, and pinpoint accuracy. And I'm not sure if there's time to look around on the ground for a rock that's not too big or too small to make a useful thrown weapon during a battle, so they have to carry all of these things on their person. You try carrying around 10 or 15 fist sized rocks in your pockets. Arrows and javelins and bolts have quivers. Where are they keeping all those rocks?

You can, of course, kill a person by throwing rocks at them...eventually.... But an armored person, even lightly armored, facing you in combat is going to mostly laugh at a thrown rock, easily stepping aside, or blocking it with a shield, even catching it. Now, if they had slings.... But then they'd be as deadly as those ridiculous forest bandits.
Yeah, I am just saying that the effect is a tad exaggerated. I got hit at 40m with a stone a couple of times. Against 4 Looters this is not an issue. However it can turn into an issue if you are engaging 11-15 looters. So when 12 looters are throwing rocks you will be hit a lot and depending on range. Now is the general accuracy of ranged too high?
Yes, but I think the core issue is players overestimating their odds and not realizing how probability works. 4 Looters have 60 stones and 10 have 150, so the frequency and duration of getting hit will be more intense.
A slight tweak to accuracy is indeed needed and a nerf to the ammo might be valid as well. However I think renaming the difficulty settings to easy/normal/hard for the respective damage values would also have similar effects.
 

Diavolo

Knight
M&BWB
Best answers
0
Does ranged proficiency increase accuracy now? It seems like maybe only perks have an effect, making looters with stones be equally skilled as a master thrower.
 

VincentNZ

Recruit
Best answers
0
Does ranged proficiency increase accuracy now? It seems like maybe only perks have an effect, making looters with stones be equally skilled as a master thrower.
Generally gear is the highest force multiplier in that regard and base accuracy when stationary seems decent. It would be interesting to see what kind of stats said rock actually has.
I am still unsure what effect the skill level actually has. Whether it increases damage or accuracy at all. When I look at my damage numbers I regularly see +4 damage because of perks, so it could indeed be that the only important thing are the perks (mostly not working) that will have an effect on damage at least and maybe accuracy. In that case the numbers to look for are 25, 50, 75, 100 etc., as this will determine the damage modifiers that apply. Also this would mean that regardless of armour, a certain amount of damage will always be taken, which can be a lot since health is 100-119.
 

iElek

Recruit
Best answers
0
So over night every looter attended sniper school and can headshot with stones from redicious distances? what the actual hell?

Can't ride around even small groups of looters now because they all hit me even when going full speed on a decent horse, looters are early game enemies, you're supposed to be able to kill them without wearing armor.

and archers? what the hell, the archers in my army is bloody useless, don't fire even when the enemy is 10 paces ahead of em, but the enemy archers litter me with arrows before I get within half a mile of them?
It's so annoying. I really hope it gets addressed in the next patch notes
 

Celebert

Recruit
Best answers
0
Actually the problem with archers comes from time of the battle. At night they shoot from closer distance than at daytime.
 

Shaf

Recruit
Best answers
0
I actually don't have this problem... I play a horse archer on realistic and I am able to hit them without them hitting me... Obviously if I make a mistake and head in to linear of a line they get me but basic circling doesn't seem to hurt. if you are trying to just dive into a group of them to swing a sword I can see where you would get pummeled