1.2.7 Siege battle enemy archer not defending wall,

[veronicaaltoids]

In 1.2.7 Siege battle, enemy archers are not defending the wall,
so my archers can't even shoot them at all.

almost 90% of time, my siege weapon would got destroy by enemy catapult.
which may be only 30-40% of time compared with previous game experience.

I understand siege battle is supposed to be tough and difficult, but even I have a 100 skill engineer, constructed 2 stairs and 1 battle ram, 1 catapult
the siege battle still ridiculous difficult.

I just gave up trying, just assembly 2000+ army and let it auto-battle it out.
When you design it too difficult, it just doesn't make sense to play it any more

 

[dangrash]

In 1.2.7 Siege battle, enemy archers are not defending the wall,
so my archers can't even shoot them at all.

almost 90% my siege weapon got destroy by enemy catapult
I understand siege battle is supposed to be tough and difficult, but even I have a 100 skill engineer, constructed 2 stairs and 1 battle ram, 1 catapult
the siege battle still ridiculous difficult.

I just gave up trying, just assembly 2000+ army and let it auto-battle it out.
When you design it too difficult, it just doesn't make sense to play it any more

huh ya supposed to kill of there siege first before assuilting there town.

thats best done with building a trebuchet then stashing it untill the 4th one is done then ya place them down and then let them destroy everything including the wall which they will most likely do without getting any destroyed.

then start the siege the enemy will defend the 2 broken walls and the archers mostly the top. if ya play it right and savespot ya can use a horse to jump over the infantry going to the broken walls then move around town and kill off the archers from the back. then eather kill of all archers first or order ya man to attack while ya kill of the archers. they will focus on ya man due to them being closer while u can with a bow/crossboww kill of them from the back.

or go solo the entire time this takes around 30-60 min to kill over 400-500 town garrison with no loses i always pick this option.

 

[JunKeteer]

huh ya supposed to kill of there siege first before assuilting there town.

thats best done with building a trebuchet then stashing it untill the 4th one is done then ya place them down and then let them destroy everything including the wall which they will most likely do without getting any destroyed.

then start the siege the enemy will defend the 2 broken walls and the archers mostly the top. if ya play it right and savespot ya can use a horse to jump over the infantry going to the broken walls then move around town and kill off the archers from the back. then eather kill of all archers first or order ya man to attack while ya kill of the archers. they will focus on ya man due to them being closer while u can with a bow/crossboww kill of them from the back.

or go solo the entire time this takes around 30-60 min to kill over 400-500 town garrison with no loses i always pick this option.

What about when the AI comes and takes over your siege? Or you're in an army and the dumb AI can't stash siege engines so you're watching a trebuchet be built, take 3 seconds to 'load', die immediately to catapults before firing a shot, rinse and repeat, until the siege is abandoned or the enemy marches an army to counter?

It's not difficult, for sure, it's just oddly scripted. From the pre-siege map stuff, to the scripted 'positions' in-battle; hoping TW timed them right because of how it is. Siege engine damage effects don't exist, it's a binary dead or not. They don't slow down regardless how many are pushing it or how damaged they are; same with defender ones. So, the positions have to be 'just' right but as it is, most fights, it's literally impossible to kill it, or it's guaranteed to always die.

As a player, you win easily because you forcibly change their scripted timing. Rush the walls and hoist the ladders solo, force them all to split or approach ladders to be exposed to archers. Even if you take the ladders early, you're stuck watching those idiots just stand at the top (god forbid one is stuck at the top of the ladder) taking arrows waiting the next 3 minutes for the ram/gates group before that 'trigger' changes.

I can solo defend against 50+ (can probably try for more) units, with how dumb they are; but that's not 'right'.

 

[世界知名伟人]

In 1.2.7 Siege battle, enemy archers are not defending the wall,
so my archers can't even shoot them at all.

It's reported.

 

[dangrash]

What about when the AI comes and takes over your siege? Or you're in an army and the dumb AI can't stash siege engines so you're watching a trebuchet be built, take 3 seconds to 'load', die immediately to catapults before firing a shot, rinse and repeat, until the siege is abandoned or the enemy marches an army to counter?

It's not difficult, for sure, it's just oddly scripted. From the pre-siege map stuff, to the scripted 'positions' in-battle; hoping TW timed them right because of how it is. Siege engine damage effects don't exist, it's a binary dead or not. They don't slow down regardless how many are pushing it or how damaged they are; same with defender ones. So, the positions have to be 'just' right but as it is, most fights, it's literally impossible to kill it, or it's guaranteed to always die.

As a player, you win easily because you forcibly change their scripted timing. Rush the walls and hoist the ladders solo, force them all to split or approach ladders to be exposed to archers. Even if you take the ladders early, you're stuck watching those idiots just stand at the top (god forbid one is stuck at the top of the ladder) taking arrows waiting the next 3 minutes for the ram/gates group before that 'trigger' changes.

I can solo defend against 50+ (can probably try for more) units, with how dumb they are; but that's not 'right'.

to stop the ai from comming out to siege ya need atleast 1/3 of there strenght so having a good it of high lvl troops can resolve that problem. good bit o rank 4-5 man can easily keep them inside with a 25% man difference. because of there overall strenght. heck even bandits run away from me if i am just with my 14 companion party if there 4 times my size...

if ya worried about the ai killing ya stuff killed because ya part of the siege camp just wait untill there ready to attack then join in.
or even better every siege i join the attacr always loses. i make sure of that. what i do is i join battle retreat my stuff go in a good spot to watch the ai push the ram stairs etc. then try to make the town blow up the ram first. this causes lots of loses normally also. then when the ram is on the door to smash it. i simply retreat to world map then join battle again. mostly the stairs are still alive then so they shove that next. i again will retreat my stuf then let them get slaughterdt. when there close to the walls i will retreat. repeat that for 30+ min and attacker lost pretty much. then what i do is get them to 0 man left and i will kill the garrison mostly if my current army is alot weaker then the settlement. then when there weaker i retreat leave siege camp and see all there lords getting captured a second later. then i assuilt the town. because will be fast enough the ai cannnot recruit the prisoners from there army and the garrison will be weakened severly. then use my trebuchet trick. and take the town mostly alone. i kill all archers then at the end my companion squad will enter from the door. beccause i jumped over the broken gatee soldiers to open door from inside then move them behind the 1 of the 2 broken walls and tell them fire at willl. there 1000 arrows rain they got will do th trick in annihilating all melee that ignores them 100%

scared about enemy reniforceent no problem instantly start attack afther all that prep on the town who cares they got catapults place ya army backkkk as much a possible focus fire there catapults with any bow. when out of arrows retreat repeat and then ya can pick between building a ram fast or kill all archers then assuilt the gate with ya soldiers.

i mostly do sieges alone and use companion trick to lvl them up as last. so i will kill like 200-250 archers then the companions will kill the melee. and if they retreat when there the last bit i also retreat. dont want to fight in the castle hase a chance to lose forces. then afther taking it entire party joins the garrison. with me leaving with my family and companions.

 

[JunKeteer]

to stop the ai from comming out to siege ya need atleast 1/3 of there strenght so having a good it of high lvl troops can resolve that problem. good bit o rank 4-5 man can easily keep them inside with a 25% man difference. because of there overall strenght. heck even bandits run away from me if i am just with my 14 companion party if there 4 times my size...

What? I'm talking about how another army joining your siege removes you from being the leader of that siege; ie. you can't stash trebuchets and 'load' them up all at once. You're forced into playing by the dumb AI 'scripted' sieges; all you can do is control your little merry band of archers as captain role only.

if ya worried about the ai killing ya stuff killed because ya part of the siege camp just wait untill there ready to attack then join in.

So, abuse another player mechanic to overcome this 'issue' vs TW addressing properly?

or even better every siege i join the attacr always loses. i make sure of that. what i do is i join battle retreat my stuff go in a good spot to watch the ai push the ram stairs etc. then try to make the town blow up the ram first. this causes lots of loses normally also. then when the ram is on the door to smash it. i simply retreat to world map then join battle again. mostly the stairs are still alive then so they shove that next. i again will retreat my stuf then let them get slaughterdt. when there close to the walls i will retreat. repeat that for 30+ min and attacker lost pretty much. then what i do is get them to 0 man left and i will kill the garrison mostly if my current army is alot weaker then the settlement. then when there weaker i retreat leave siege camp and see all there lords getting captured a second later. then i assuilt the town. because will be fast enough the ai cannnot recruit the prisoners from there army and the garrison will be weakened severly. then use my trebuchet trick. and take the town mostly alone. i kill all archers then at the end my companion squad will enter from the door. beccause i jumped over the broken gatee soldiers to open door from inside then move them behind the 1 of the 2 broken walls and tell them fire at willl. there 1000 arrows rain they got will do th trick in annihilating all melee that ignores them 100%

Barely understand half of this. Again, complete player cheese mechanics; one could arguably solo whole armies 1v1000 as a HA doing those retreat cheeses. Why are you doing this anyways? Auto-battle as defender is weighted so heavily in your favour, you're more efficient just doing that. Defending castle with ~400 units, you can just auto-calc and beat attackers numbered in 1800+ (2 armies roughly).

scared about enemy reniforceent no problem instantly start attack afther all that prep on the town who cares they got catapults place ya army backkkk as much a possible focus fire there catapults with any bow. when out of arrows retreat repeat and then ya can pick between building a ram fast or kill all archers then assuilt the gate with ya soldiers.

i mostly do sieges alone and use companion trick to lvl them up as last. so i will kill like 200-250 archers then the companions will kill the melee. and if they retreat when there the last bit i also retreat. dont want to fight in the castle hase a chance to lose forces. then afther taking it entire party joins the garrison. with me leaving with my family and companions.

Half coherent, majority of defender catapults can't be targeted by archers anyways (TW intention to give defenders a better chance). All these are player abuse mechanics in spite of the games flaws; nothing special to it. We all can do it.
I'd rather the game be fixed properly where this isn't even a thing, or make it not even worth entertaining; except for individuals that love cheesing games.

 

[veronicaaltoids]

huh ya supposed to kill of there siege first before assuilting there town.

thats best done with building a trebuchet then stashing it untill the 4th one is done then ya place them down and then let them destroy everything including the wall which they will most likely do without getting any destroyed.

then start the siege the enemy will defend the 2 broken walls and the archers mostly the top. if ya play it right and savespot ya can use a horse to jump over the infantry going to the broken walls then move around town and kill off the archers from the back. then eather kill of all archers first or order ya man to attack while ya kill of the archers. they will focus on ya man due to them being closer while u can with a bow/crossboww kill of them from the back.

or go solo the entire time this takes around 30-60 min to kill over 400-500 town garrison with no loses i always pick this option.

thank you, that's interesting, I never try that

I don't have patience to siege town for so long , worrying that the enemy army may attack me from the behind
but that's interesting, i should try it later

 

[dangrash]

What? I'm talking about how another army joining your siege removes you from being the leader of that siege; ie. you can't stash trebuchets and 'load' them up all at once. You're forced into playing by the dumb AI 'scripted' sieges; all you can do is control your little merry band of archers as captain role only.

oh ya mean them joining in havent notice this problem at all never starte up a kingdom or had vassels. never had an army join in eather they mostly just stood there if i assuilted the rebel c.a.m.p or the city i was at war with. sturgia is the best faction to start a war with in my opinion due to how much cheese there terain hase. almost everywhere in there area ya can single handily kill of there entire army from a savespot.

So, abuse another player mechanic to overcome this 'issue' vs TW addressing properly?

its not like an abuse other then just using a different play style thats part of the game. the game hase lots of mechanics afther all this allows people to pick how to play. what the issue is with this is ya want it to work entirelly differerent deleting the other possability of playing. now what i am just suggesting is using another mechanic of the game that saver to use. if ya dont wanna use it fine but be prepared to take the loses for it.

Barely understand half of this. Again, complete player cheese mechanics; one could arguably solo whole armies 1v1000 as a HA doing those retreat cheeses. Why are you doing this anyways? Auto-battle as defender is weighted so heavily in your favour, you're more efficient just doing that. Defending castle with ~400 units, you can just auto-calc and beat attackers numbered in 1800+ (2 armies roughly).

i dislike the auto battle system alot i use it like 10-11 times to try it out with my army type omg i lost so much crap in all the try's it was so dumb how bad it was. a normal battle i would take like 1-5 loses. using the auto battle over half my crap kept getting killed. this was even if i would do nothing in battle i would take less loses then the auto battle system. could litterly half a 70to 30% army strenght and that auto battle system would screw me over again majorly. with that experience i always do normal battle's also very good way to level up fast. .

Half coherent, majority of defender catapults can't be targeted by archers anyways (TW intention to give defenders a better chance). All these are player abuse mechanics in spite of the games flaws; nothing special to it. We all can do it.
I'd rather the game be fixed properly where this isn't even a thing, or make it not even worth entertaining; except for individuals that love cheesing games.

the ai is able to target catapults during ya can only see them destroy them in active battle's if ya use the cheese mechanic to retreat to world map. dont do it when there at the stairs tho. the archers will then be somewhat in place not all so they wont or a couple could shoot first. now if ya retreat when there at the stairs to get up well... the lowest catapult i have seen with a 1000+ man battle was from the 4 starting catapults to 3. meaning with the cheesing i did they where able to destroy on while damaging all others somewhat.

and removing other game mechanics from the entire game because ya dont like them i am very against if.other playstyle's exist to be used. some can make it easy for the person or harder. like i dont like to lose man when i do an active siege so i stash the trebuchet if it was possible. same thing with ruining other army's i save before i start the siege. if an allyed army screw me up and it close i load go to a dif city or wait to smith or something else then when i see them go in battle. i screw them up. i wont care if they lose 5-10 lords because of screwing with my new town. just means my relationship go's up alot afther i saved them from the city afther capture. also the bonus army i get of them helps in keeping th garison save. because my medicine skills allows them to get mostly wounded so if there a crap ton of prisoners why not get some bennefits of it.


ya could use the same mechanics to protect against enemy army's game random on what they do afther all see a large army getting close to an active siege.
pick a couple of options
1. attack the city retreating everyone in battle so ya go solo.
2.prep the town/castle by destroying all archers,catapults,
3. get a small group of archers and check if there any spots like a broken towers or some hidden area they where can fire but wont get hit by catapults..notice that couple of town maps have broken tower that can be used like this.
4. go the hard route charge in and lose lots of man to take the city.
5.prep ya clan to use a big army to take the town
6. chicken out and run away from the siege
7.take the attack and get the risk of the city joining in.
8.cancel siege and attack the army this wont proc the city to jump out with the attack meaning easier battle.

ya coul always ofcourse try to trap all lords in a city make them starve then with there troops being wounded start a siege i also did that a couple of times. much harder to do with recent patch tho still funny when i had over 20 lords of sturgia in a city with them all having 1 party with the rest being wounded.still got that console save



anyway this is how my sieges normally go
build c.a.m.p cheese trebuchet in inventory build a ram or stairs while waiting for stuf to be finished to be used then wait for stuff to die on over map
start the siege of town. look around on player map if i need to retreat my entire army or if i can savespot them in somwhere.
jump in the city over a small wall section its a 50/50 if infantry already there or nothing is there. then look around town.
go up a wall start archery massacre.
then 2 things can happen 1 i run out of arrows and cant retock so i retreat to overworld and save to rejoin or,,,,
i keep killing everything with me able to restock on arrows then check scoreboard on archers if there non left. start phase 2.
retreat to map make a squad of companions. order them to the door on hold fire jump over the shield soldiers open the door move companions in fast close the doors. move the companions behind the army or a high ground move them in a line with a shield wall formation then fire at will!!. arrow rain to the enemy in the back. if i did not back of my army they wont turn around to block meaning they will get shot in the back.

this levels up companion archery,crossbow,atheltic,throwing skills very easily and i can level up melee skills with this also thats only if i equip them with a very long reaching weapon. and ofcoure if i spect them in melee. i rarely do that unless they alreay had some in there wating to gain xp in it i will keep them with archery mostly. this is a very effective to level up companions an player character absurbtly high like right now got a level 40 character with 490 days and 5 towns. all from rebel army with the 1000+ army cheese

 

[JunKeteer]

its not like an abuse other then just using a different play style thats part of the game. the game hase lots of mechanics afther all this allows people to pick how to play. what the issue is with this is ya want it to work entirelly differerent deleting the other possability of playing. now what i am just suggesting is using another mechanic of the game that saver to use. if ya dont wanna use it fine but be prepared to take the loses for it.

Sure, but this doesn't excuse the fact TW needs to address/fix it. No different from abusing the crafting/smithing exploits; fix it.

There's no 'picking' different playstyles. You don't get to pick relieving command to another AI or stay leader of it. Your armies force disband when besieged. You don't get to command a lot of troops while defending (permanent 'scripted' positions). You don't get to make suggestions to the army leader (seems likes a perfect time to spend influence bucks). You don't get to instruct them to stop building ballistas only or build a second siege engine or when to attack. You don't get to coordinate targets for your ballista. There's a lot you can't do. It's either you're stuck in their restrictive/basic gameplay loop ('act' like AI) or winning by player cheesed mechanics; which happens practically by default/accident otherwise.

and removing other game mechanics from the entire game because ya dont like them i am very against if.other playstyle's exist to be used. some can make it easy for the person or harder. like i dont like to lose man when i do an active siege so i stash the trebuchet if it was possible. same thing with ruining other army's i save before i start the siege. if an allyed army screw me up and it close i load go to a dif city or wait to smith or something else then when i see them go in battle. i screw them up. i wont care if they lose 5-10 lords because of screwing with my new town. just means my relationship go's up alot afther i saved them from the city afther capture. also the bonus army i get of them helps in keeping th garison save. because my medicine skills allows them to get mostly wounded so if there a crap ton of prisoners why not get some bennefits of it.

You mean, remove player cheats? I'm not against that. We all play our own way, but the way they seemed to have designed/assumed the game is to be played misses the mark in practically all the features implemented.

1. attack the city retreating everyone in battle so ya go solo.

Personally, I can't consider that as a viable playstyle or intended gameplay design, I might as well turn on god mode or mod in a machine gun for myself too

2.prep the town/castle by destroying all archers,catapults,

by doing the thing only the player can to even make this feature of theirs thing (ie storing trebuchets)? Of the +100s of sieges, I think I've seen only one where the AI managed somehow to go beyond 'build 1 trebuchet, watch it die, build another, watch it die, repeat' and get a wall broken in; before an opposing army attacks too or peace or randomly abandons siege.

3. get a small group of archers and check if there any spots like a broken towers or some hidden area they where can fire but wont get hit by catapults..notice that couple of town maps have broken tower that can be used like this.

map dependent, and if your group of archers are positioned to be visible anyways (back to the original topic issue). And hope you don't grab too many archers and watch them fall to death when you OOB them there; and only when you can command the defense (less opportunity with recent changes). and hope the archers don't ignore command and trickle out from that set up to the 'forced' positions scripted in.

4. go the hard route charge in and lose lots of man to take the city.

that's the whole point, it's either the 2 side entries, or the gate entry. god forbid they don't rubberband between them trying to 'fulfill the quota' for each entry attack.

5.prep ya clan to use a big army to take the town

that's the only gameplay designed

6. chicken out and run away from the siege
7.take the attack and get the risk of the city joining in.

these are the only fun/challenging fights, they don't even have an 'outside' castle fight to imitate the situation. everyone is suddenly in the open field (including defenders), with no castle in the backdrop either.

8.cancel siege and attack the army this wont proc the city to jump out with the attack meaning easier battle.

this is only when you can lead the army, and hope when you cancel (disorganized) the army won't start running away because they now don't calculate the city numbers.

ya coul always ofcourse try to trap all lords in a city make them starve then with there troops being wounded start a siege i also did that a couple of times. much harder to do with recent patch tho still funny when i had over 20 lords of sturgia in a city with them all having 1 party with the rest being wounded.still got that console save

Sure, something only the player can 'recognize'; militia don't starve either for some stupid reason anymore, only garrisons.

anyway this is how my sieges normally go
build c.a.m.p cheese trebuchet in inventory build a ram or stairs while waiting for stuf to be finished to be used then wait for stuff to die on over map
start the siege of town. look around on player map if i need to retreat my entire army or if i can savespot them in somwhere.
jump in the city over a small wall section its a 50/50 if infantry already there or nothing is there. then look around town.
go up a wall start archery massacre.
then 2 things can happen 1 i run out of arrows and cant retock so i retreat to overworld and save to rejoin or,,,,
i keep killing everything with me able to restock on arrows then check scoreboard on archers if there non left. start phase 2.
retreat to map make a squad of companions. order them to the door on hold fire jump over the shield soldiers open the door move companions in fast close the doors. move the companions behind the army or a high ground move them in a line with a shield wall formation then fire at will!!. arrow rain to the enemy in the back. if i did not back of my army they wont turn around to block meaning they will get shot in the back.

These aren't tactics, this is cheesing the game/dumb AI. I don't even see the fun/challenge in this, but you do you.

 

[geala]

The auto-resolve is at a good spot, it should be very difficult to conquer a fortification. Stupid AI attack behavior in actual siege battles I accept to a certain degree, it compensates for the fact that it is much too easy and fast to get towers and rams towards the walls.

As for archer behavior on the walls, they should shoot and then move behind cover. In reality the space between crenelations was most often covered by wooden defenses, so it is far too easy to hit defenders anyway. Of course the combat is very arcade, so there is not much to expect.