It was not the Polish Republic
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SunofVich
Veteran
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth seems a bit ambiguous.
As does Kingdom of Poland and Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
It has been dubbed as the first Polish Republic by historians so even though it was never called the Polish Republic at this time I see nothing wrong with calling it that now.
However if anyone is really irked by this they can always change name in the file mention above.
As does Kingdom of Poland and Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
It has been dubbed as the first Polish Republic by historians so even though it was never called the Polish Republic at this time I see nothing wrong with calling it that now.
However if anyone is really irked by this they can always change name in the file mention above.
Being a Polish citizen but no historian I also don't think the name "Polish Republic" is right. "The Commonwealth" or "Rzeczpospolita"/"Žečpospolita"/"Res Publica" would be less confusing if you need to have it short. I know Rzeczpospolita means Republic but it's not what we would today call a republic.
EscudoDeTeixo
Regular
The latin term 'Res Publica' doesn't directly mean 'Republic' although in some cases is translated as such.
'King of the Republic' is as an antithesis as anything can be.
'King of the Republic' is as an antithesis as anything can be.
Gr0vZ
Sergeant
"Rzeczpospolita" is a calque translation of the Latin expression "Res Publica". From what I remember from Latin classes, it means "common affair/public matter".
The point is that "Rzeczpospolita" doesn't mean "Republic". It clearly means "Commonwealth". In the polish language, any other republican state is referred to as "Republika" (Republika Grecka, Republika Francuska). So, modern Poland didn't change its official status since then. It's not "Republika Polska", but "Rzeczpospolita Polska". So it was then, so it is today. Why the official title abroad is "Republic of Poland", I do not know. A horrible mistake, or joke. Normally, it should be "Commonwealth of Poland", even if that country, today, lacks the Lithuanians, Ruthenians and numerous other ethnical groups that made the Commonwealth a phenomenal multicultural state. Also, the first real modern democratic state, before even the term "Republic" was coined for the needs of international relations.
Finally, the initials of Poland are "RP". In the popular view, it's the acronym of "Rzeczpospolita Polska". In reality, these initials were used back in the 17th-18th century on an international stage, to refer to the "Res Publica", a unique state by any standards.
"The Crown" and "The Grand Duchy" were terms used mostly within the borders of the Commonwealth. Ethnical Poles would most often be referred to as "Koroniarze" (sing. Koroniarz), as for those that come from the "Korona". Often, the Grand Duchy would be simply refered to as "Litwa", just as the Kingdom could be with the use of "Polska".
The King (who was something similar to the modern President of the United States, judging from the political system in the Commonwealth) held both titles of Rex and Magnus Dux, along with several other, minor and most often personal titles.
For example, the titles of Władysław IV Waza (the King preceeding the one in the game) were these:
Vladislaus IV, by the Grace of God, King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania, Ruthenia, Prussia, Masovia, Samogitia, Livonia, and also hereditary King of the Swedes, Goths and Vandals, elected Grand Duke of Moscow.
Yup, that was a guy I'd want to hang out.
Here's a link to the Grand Coat of Arms of the Commonwealth:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth.svg
And here's a link to the Royal Banner, from the seven year period where Poland and Sweden were under a personal union, together forming the only historical, unique superstate that had the Baltic Sea as an internal lake:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Flaga_Rzeczpospolitej_Obojga_Narodow.svg
Dominum Maris Baltici wasn't that hard afterall, eh? Too bad things went wrong afterwards.
So, either "Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth", or "Res Publica". Or go hardcore and use the official Latin name.
The point is that "Rzeczpospolita" doesn't mean "Republic". It clearly means "Commonwealth". In the polish language, any other republican state is referred to as "Republika" (Republika Grecka, Republika Francuska). So, modern Poland didn't change its official status since then. It's not "Republika Polska", but "Rzeczpospolita Polska". So it was then, so it is today. Why the official title abroad is "Republic of Poland", I do not know. A horrible mistake, or joke. Normally, it should be "Commonwealth of Poland", even if that country, today, lacks the Lithuanians, Ruthenians and numerous other ethnical groups that made the Commonwealth a phenomenal multicultural state. Also, the first real modern democratic state, before even the term "Republic" was coined for the needs of international relations.
Finally, the initials of Poland are "RP". In the popular view, it's the acronym of "Rzeczpospolita Polska". In reality, these initials were used back in the 17th-18th century on an international stage, to refer to the "Res Publica", a unique state by any standards.
"The Crown" and "The Grand Duchy" were terms used mostly within the borders of the Commonwealth. Ethnical Poles would most often be referred to as "Koroniarze" (sing. Koroniarz), as for those that come from the "Korona". Often, the Grand Duchy would be simply refered to as "Litwa", just as the Kingdom could be with the use of "Polska".
The King (who was something similar to the modern President of the United States, judging from the political system in the Commonwealth) held both titles of Rex and Magnus Dux, along with several other, minor and most often personal titles.
For example, the titles of Władysław IV Waza (the King preceeding the one in the game) were these:
Vladislaus IV, by the Grace of God, King of Poland, Grand Duke of Lithuania, Ruthenia, Prussia, Masovia, Samogitia, Livonia, and also hereditary King of the Swedes, Goths and Vandals, elected Grand Duke of Moscow.
Yup, that was a guy I'd want to hang out.
Here's a link to the Grand Coat of Arms of the Commonwealth:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Coat_of_Arms_of_the_Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth.svg
And here's a link to the Royal Banner, from the seven year period where Poland and Sweden were under a personal union, together forming the only historical, unique superstate that had the Baltic Sea as an internal lake:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Flaga_Rzeczpospolitej_Obojga_Narodow.svg
Dominum Maris Baltici wasn't that hard afterall, eh? Too bad things went wrong afterwards.
So, either "Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth", or "Res Publica". Or go hardcore and use the official Latin name.
othr
Master Knight
I don't think Taleworlds would find it hard to change the name in future patches. The game is loosely based on the trilogy by Henryk Sienkiewicz which in turn is loosely based on historical events. Still, the name should be changed even if only to encourage people to maybe dig up some historical facts about this truly unique, multicultural state, where the king had almost no power and had to rely on charisma to get anything done
As a Lithuanian i am a bit angry because Poland is trying to rub us out of the game. Change the name to Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth or Polish-Lithuanian Union, or Polish-Lithuanian Republic!
P.S Besides I thought that the game was supposed to be historicly accurate, but it isnt. If they called the The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to Polish Republic, why dont they add the female gender back to the game?!
P.S Besides I thought that the game was supposed to be historicly accurate, but it isnt. If they called the The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to Polish Republic, why dont they add the female gender back to the game?!
somerandomname
Sergeant
Because playable female gender have nothing to do with a faction's name?
somerandomname
Sergeant
Yes.
Ask the devs, man.
Ask the devs, man.
Gr0vZ
Sergeant
Osviux said:
Polish-Lithuanian Union - Outdated by the time of the game setting. Sure, a personal union existed for over a century, throughout which the Kingdom and the Grand Duchy were separate states, allied with eachother, since their rulers belonged to one family, the Jagiellons. The personal union ceased to exist on July 1, 1569, with the Union of Lublin, a real union that resulted in creation of the semi-federal, semi-confederal Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. The titles of Rex and Magnus Dux were held by one person, not two, namely the King. Around that time, the elective monarchy system was introduced, dropping the hereditary system.
Polish-Lithuanian Republic - There was no such thing as a Republic. Res Publica-> Rzeczpospolita -> Commonwealth. Even after the Constitution of May 3, 1791, were the Kingdom and the Grand Duchy were abolished, forming one state, the Commonwealth, not the Republic. And this is how it is in both countries to this day. Neither Poland's or Lithuania's Constitutions mention something about being "Republics". Both countries' statuses are that of a "Commonwealth", something that isn't obstructed at all by their republican political systems (Rzeczpospolita and Respublika, respectively). The One Almighty God knows why they are translated into "Republic" today, since it's a mistake.
Osviux, why do you think that Poland tries to rub Lithuania off the scene? I'm of polish ancestry and I couldn't see the Commonwealth without the Lithuanians. It as much part of your history, culture and heritage as it is of ours. And just because the developers missed this one, it doesn't mean that Poland has anything to do with it, even if there is a general view that the Crown was the dominant state of the Commonwealth. Nevertheless, the in-game coat of arms (even though quite a poor version of the original) represents the Lithuanian "Vitys" in its rightfull place, along the White Eagle. Maybe they didn't name Lithuania, but it's obvious that without the Lietuviai, there would be no Commonwealth. Point.
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