How to utilize two-handed weapons with all those pointy sticks flying around?

[TheAnyKey]

In Pendor it seems rather suicidal not to carry a shield about all the time. In most encounters there are way too many and too strong units with ranged attacks to fight without a shield, especially if your damage setting is at normal difficulty or higher. The occasions to prefer a two-handed melee weapon over a weapon/shield combination seem rather sparse.

I like the idea of going into battle with a huge implement of death, but how to utilize two-handed weapons with all those pointy sticks flying around?

 

[fidoman1272]

Get a posse.

Pimpin' around with a battleaxe is more fun with some frothing-at-the-mouth Fierdsvains, so running around in a pack means that you can still kill **** (That's a plus), but stay alive (that's also a plus).

Doing this with your named friends also works well; 10 fully armoured badasses with battleaxes looks pretty damn terrifying put in the middle of a horde of Fierdsvain. (Then again, anything does. Really. I tried Kevin Rudd (using my banner) and it still looks damn scary.)

 

[Mightyena-Lucario]

Though I play on an incredibly easy difficulty (something around 30% or so), I often find myself getting headshotted by some random spear thrown from what appears to be the other end of Pendor. Here are some rules I follow whenever I'm forced to fight without a shield:

#1: NEVER stand still.
The moment you stop moving, you'll turn into Swiss cheese. You always want to keep running. Add some sideways dodges to it. I found going zigzag when approaching an enemy that's shooting at you works quite well.

#2: Keep a meatshield.
Preferably with a real shield. They'll soak up some arrows/bolts/spears/knives/etc. that would otherwise kill you.

#3: Pick single targets.
A lone Ranger or Armored Crossbowman firing at you is considerably easier to kill than a dozen of them. Let your cavalry or your shielded troops deal with groups. Alternatively, have them cover you while you cut off some heads.


These tactics work best in field battles. As for sieges...well, #2 is the most important one here. Stick with a group of shielded soldiers and hack your way through the enemy. Of course you won't be invincible with this - in fact, there's a good chance that you'll get headshotted in a siege the moment you poke your head out, but hey, no one said it'd be easy. 

I agree, going full on berserk with some giant shiny embodiment of doom is incredibly fun, but it's also incredibly risky. Still, I do so every so often for the lulz. (Which is comparatively easy with my difficulty settings - yeah, I know I'm a wimp.  )

 

[fladin]

use a bastard sword/weapon ?!

 

[AlphaOmega]

Could get a group of troops with shields and set their group name as that, so you can control them individually.  Then advance them in front of you until you're close enough.

 

[Alavaria]

Could get a group of troops with shields and set their group name as that, so you can control them individually.  Then advance them in front of you until you're close enough.

That's one of the things I like to do when faced with ~too many~ enemy archers.

A plus of using crossbows is you can use them for that, leaving your infantry untouched and ready to go.

 

[Cornelius Constantine]

A plus of using crossbows is you can use them for that, leaving your infantry untouched and ready to go.

Are you, by any chance, French? 

 

[noosers]

Why should a preference for crossbows nominate anyone for beeing french?

The vast majority didn´t use the english war bow for their ranged units from the Dark Ages to the beginning of the black powder age. It´s just like asking you wether you love tulips, gouda and wooden clogs on account of beeing dutch.

 

[habeo123]

China used both Crossbow and bow, even from the very early years. That does not make me a Chinese since I use both.

 

[Apolo]

According to Bernard Cornwell you either  use bows or you're french

 

[Alavaria]

A plus of using crossbows is you can use them for that, leaving your infantry untouched and ready to go.

Are you, by any chance, French? 

No, but the villages around Ethos give the occasional Empire recruit 

What does this make me?

 

[Apolo]

Heir of Atila

 

[Cornelius Constantine]

According to Bernard Cornwell you either  use bows or you're french

That, plus the fact that the French also used their Genoese crossbow armed mercenaries as cannon... ehm.. arrow fodder. 

 

[Apolo]

According to Bernard Cornwell you either  use bows or you're french

That, plus the fact that the French also used their Genoese crossbow armed mercenaries as cannon... ehm.. arrow fodder. 

And when the Genoese died, they used their infantry as arrow fodder. After the infantry, it was the cavalry time to get arrowed up. Eventually, even the king would be a nice and well pierced arrow cushion. It was like:

 

[Alavaria]

The Noldor would approve.

 

[habeo123]

Good thing that dude recognized you, or that screenshot would've not been taken.

 

[Alavaria]

Good thing that dude recognized you, or that screenshot would've not been taken.

So you think, but if they were hostile, it would have been an autoresolve and they would all magically die as the 1000 other guys with me magically instakilled themselves and the Noldor.

And like a fifth of them would be knocked out by all the morning stars, lances and crossbow bolts, and would be taken prisoner to give me more honor.

 

[MightyPaladin]

And when the Genoese died, they used their infantry as arrow fodder. After the infantry, it was the cavalry time to get arrowed up. Eventually, even the king would be a nice and well pierced arrow cushion.

I know this is tounge-in-cheek, but still, it gets tiresome.

Ah, history may be over, but propaganda lives forever.  The longbow was overrated,  there, I said it.  The battle of Agincourt and Crecy are famous because they were bloody English victories in a war that they ultimately *lost*

in Agincourt the Engish won because of the terrain and stupid French leaders.  The longbows ... were there.  The French tried to charge across hundreds of yards of mud - by the time they reached the English lines, there were too exhausted to fight.  The longbows most meaningful contribution was to unhorse the french knights. 

At Crecy the longbowmen famously outshot Geonese mercenary crossbowmen.  Somehow the whole story never gets told.  The Genoese crossbowmen were ordered into the battle without their shields (pavise shields that would have rendered longbow shot mostly impotent), then it rained on them, damaging bowstrings.  Still, most of the damage was done by french knights killing them for cowardice when they retreated.  Luck and *terrible* french leadership made the longbow look better than it was.  Again, terrain played a serious factor - the longbows had superior range only because they were on a hill.

In fact, in both these battles, the English would have lost horribly if the French commanders had even a tiny bit of patience.  Hasty attacks against prepared positions failed?!  Charging up a hill and fighting while exhausted doesn't work?! What a SHOCK!  Why does the longbow get *all* the credit for this?  Don't get me wrong, its a good weapon, but it didn't single-handedly win battles and it certainly didn't win the war since you know, they lost.  France isn't part of the British crown.  The English were good at picking terrain, and the French tended to be too stupid to not charge into prepared defenses.


How about the Battle of Patay?  A battle where the English didn't have terrain and weather advantages along with incompetent french leadership helping them out.  (hint: they were massacred)


Back to the game..  Videogames in general tend to overstate how effective arrows (and throwing knives  ) are against guys with shields and/or complex plate.  It bothers me a little when I want to whack people with a sword, but not at all when I'm the guy with the bow 

To the question at hand - the only time I tend to use 2-handed weapons is with archer characters, so my immediate thought is to shoot back.  From a horse.  At full gallop. 

 

[noosers]

There are quite a lot of people who are aware of these facts, MightyPaladin.

Despite the early success in the HYW the english achieved nothing but stronging France on the continent, forging a nation, and almost going bancrupt like twice or so within 100 years time and sowing a century lasting enmity between nations.

And one of the reasons they didn´t achieve more was the pure defensive layout of the tactics involving english war bows and the chivalric honor of the french who failed to use their brain and missed a strong leader. Things certainly improved for them with Charles V. And detoriated again with Charles VI. But you don´t get called The Mad for no reason.

Unfortunately, video games have to weigh up realism for game fun. Still, the way archery is simulated in both MnB and WB is sickening. PoP tried to change that a into something better balanced but unfortunately, the way PD works is beyond means of change.

Finally, infantry meant something totally different than nowadays. Infantry used to be the collective term for peasant levies. And those were used to suck up damage anywhere in medieval times because they´re dirt cheap, cost nothing and are your property. Plus a mob to inflate your numbers is always helpful on a battlefield without much reconaissance as it´s basically a game of chickens with death for the first one to break and run.

Men at Arms, on the other hand, are expensive, decisive, and what most people think of when they talk about medieval infantry.

 

[Apolo]

And when the Genoese died, they used their infantry as arrow fodder. After the infantry, it was the cavalry time to get arrowed up. Eventually, even the king would be a nice and well pierced arrow cushion.

I know this is tounge-in-cheek, but still, it gets tiresome.

Ah, history may be over, but propaganda lives forever.  The longbow was overrated,  there, I said it.  The battle of Agincourt and Crecy are famous because they were bloody English victories in a war that they ultimately *lost*

in Agincourt the Engish won because of the terrain and stupid French leaders.  The longbows ... were there.  The French tried to charge across hundreds of yards of mud - by the time they reached the English lines, there were too exhausted to fight.  The longbows most meaningful contribution was to unhorse the french knights. 

At Crecy the longbowmen famously outshot Geonese mercenary crossbowmen.  Somehow the whole story never gets told.  The Genoese crossbowmen were ordered into the battle without their shields (pavise shields that would have rendered longbow shot mostly impotent), then it rained on them, damaging bowstrings.  Still, most of the damage was done by french knights killing them for cowardice when they retreated.  Luck and *terrible* french leadership made the longbow look better than it was.  Again, terrain played a serious factor - the longbows had superior range only because they were on a hill.

In fact, in both these battles, the English would have lost horribly if the French commanders had even a tiny bit of patience.  Hasty attacks against prepared positions failed?!  Charging up a hill and fighting while exhausted doesn't work?! What a SHOCK!  Why does the longbow get *all* the credit for this?  Don't get me wrong, its a good weapon, but it didn't single-handedly win battles and it certainly didn't win the war since you know, they lost.  France isn't part of the British crown.  The English were good at picking terrain, and the French tended to be too stupid to not charge into prepared defenses.


How about the Battle of Patay?  A battle where the English didn't have terrain and weather advantages along with incompetent french leadership helping them out.  (hint: they were massacred)


Back to the game..  Videogames in general tend to overstate how effective arrows (and throwing knives  ) are against guys with shields and/or complex plate.  It bothers me a little when I want to whack people with a sword, but not at all when I'm the guy with the bow 

To the question at hand - the only time I tend to use 2-handed weapons is with archer characters, so my immediate thought is to shoot back.  From a horse.  At full gallop. 

NO!  Da pointy shooter is good!
It goes "pew pew pew",  people goes "ahhhhhhhh  " and then they dead