How to make tournaments interesting

[Wulfsdottir]

Thread for those of us who like to participate in tournaments. It's not that bad comparing to some other features of the game at the moment but I think there still can be some improvements made and wonder what you think about them.

1. Betting:
a. Why are we only allowed to bet on ourselves? I think, the premise of betting is more like betting on OTHERS and see how your luck/knowledge works. It would give more opportunity to earn money, as well as lose some, if you're wrong. Tournaments fights are unpredictable enough. There can be some combinations assigned where I have seen simple recruit coming out the winner over heavily armored lords.

b. Odds. Talking about different kind of contestants and the odds. Right now it seems to be dependent only on your renown or number of victories at arena. It's logical. The more you win, the more famous you are, the less you gain by betting on yourself. But what about others? It can be the simple formula depending on the tier of participating combatant, or maybe taking into consideration their armor level too. It will give so many diversity and interest to just watching others fight. Will you play it safe and bet your 100 denars on Thomund just to win 101? Or will you risk it and bet on your barely armored archer to see he wins 3 times what you bet?

2. Configurations:
Some configurations must just go, or NPC AI must be somewhat improved. Watching two NPC spearman fight is a bore-fest right now, especially if one of them is dismounted and it's a huge imperial arena. The way they chase each other and then aim at horse's butt only to miss 99 times out of 100 makes my eyes roll everytime. Sure, we can skip NPC fights but I watch them when my companions fight to see they gain EXP.

3. Leaderboard. Make ranking system that makes sense. Seriously, how hard it is? As of now, it's clearly not implemented well. Victories always sitting at 1 and prizes actually meaning the number of times one won the tournament.

4. Talking about prizes. It's no big deal in late-game but early on it kinda is + it's super immersion breaker when your companion wins the tournament and your party doesn't gain the tournament prize. Seriously? I think my buddy - Crotor The Silent just silently ran to the nearest pawn shop after the tournament, got some bucks and spent everything on Hookers and Tablut.

5. Wooden weapons: It's clearly just aesthetics but in terms of immersion kinda important too. Warband had it right. Real fight = real weapons, Arena = wooden weapons. I just don't like to see how I slice off the face of my husband on Arena just to win mediocre level helmet And maybe it's TOO much to ask but... maybe different cries during the tournaments? Does my Sergeant Crossbower realize that I will kick his butt as soon as tournament is over after he shouted "Die you bastard" at me during the fake fight?

What other things would you add?

 

[eternalflame]

maybe different cries during the tournaments?

My waifu really wants to eat my liver. I really wish she learned to love me despite the lack of attraction.

 

[Wulfsdottir]

My waifu really wants to eat my liver. I really wish she learned to love me despite the lack of attraction.

 

[sniparsexe]

+1 to everything, especially wooden weapons

 

[arkan031]

Those sound like good ideas. Since you talked about wooden weapons, I slightly miss some kind of tournament armours also.

Rewards are fairly appealing only around beginning, later I often forget that tournaments even exist. I think it's mostly cause they happen at every corner and most propably it's a reason why rewards (especially renown) are rather low.

In general I agree that it could and should be made into something nice and enjoyable eventually.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

+1 to everything, especially wooden weapons

+1 to that. I love the gore stuff in battlefield but not in arena. No blood in tournament/arena please and same gear for all...

 

[Wulfsdottir]

Those sound like good ideas. Since you talked about wooden weapons, I slightly miss some kind of tournament armours also.

Rewards are fairly appealing only around beginning, later I often forget that tournaments even exist. I think it's mostly cause they happen at every corner and most propably it's a reason why rewards (especially renown) are rather low.

In general I agree that it could and should be made into something nice and enjoyable eventually.

Oh yes, definitely - Tournament armor. Was thinking but then forgot to include. Good catch.
And yes, tournaments happening every time and everywhere just makes them rather dull.They were much less frequent in warband and felt more important too.

+1 to that. I love the gore stuff in battlefield but not in arena. No blood in tournament/arena please and same gear for all...

Yep. Same gear for everyone and let the skills decide it all.

 

[Ronano]

EDIT: I agree with the tournament armour wholeheartedly ^^'

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

No more spears on foot!
No-More!

 

[Sheepify]

What other things would you add?

Tournaments happening as a culmination of economic process, (even better if it's tied to some in-game event like "coronation day" or "that big battle where we defeated all those filthy Vlandians happened exactly a year ago!") not just "because." At least for "larger" type of a tournament that would also attract lords to participate.

As an aside, we should have several "tiers" of tournaments - from anything open to every village bumpkin to exclusive events you need to pay a hefty fee to attend, if not be a noble outright. Or both.

Basically have a town start "preparations for tournament" that boost its requirement for specific goods. Food, obviously, wood, fabrics, whatnot. Either they get delivered by a specific date, or the tournament is cancelled (which should have a pretty big hit on relationship of the town's owner with all the other notables, if not other lords). Give both the player and AI possibility to throw money at generating "tournament-specific" caravans to fulfill the requirements, if necessary - or just announce better-priced opportunity to offload the required goods at their city to influence caravan AI.

Make the tournament prizes meaningful, and reflecting the genuine difficulty the event presents. If it's full of low-tier troops as participants - current level of prizes is pretty OK. If it's stacked with T4-5 units, much less lord and ladies participating, the damn prize should be more than something you blow - by then - chump change at the local marketplace on. If you needed it in the first place.

Preferably remove troops under T3 altogether, if we aren't getting different "quality" types of tournaments.

Different types of them - something that should be announced beforehand. This could also tie in with the different "quality," so a moshpit "grand melee" tournament is more open to commoners than elite nobles-only 1v1 duel tourney type.

For that matter, why are they all just outright fighting? Why don't we have tournaments that showcase skill in the same way that combat tutorial works in the Training Field, at least for ranged weapons? Why don't Khuzait have target tracks to show off your horsey pew-pewing, and Sturgians throwing-weapon targets for the same?

Why aren't we, as players, able to trigger tourmanents in our settlements, and why do those events not affect the prosperity of the settlement in any way, either?

Lastly, would be nice if you could ask for safe passage to participate in (more prestigious) tournaments from enemy factions, or buy it.

 

[Because]

+1 Agree wholeheartedly every point bar .2 as I'd rather they fix the AI for those weapons and I like being forced to use weapons outside my comfort zone so am happy keeping a broad range of gear even if some does play a bit daft now. I'd also would love the addition of tournament armour too.

Also saw a suggestion elsewhere to have a kingdom or perhaps all of Caladria yearly tournament which all free nobles in a kingdom/the land would attend so it would be much with higher difficulty, but higher stakes, better renown and rewards. Such a thing might have a renown requirement to enter, but would give you a reason to still go to a tournament or two even in the end game.

Only thing I would add is that I think that companions who win a round should be given a minor XP boost in a weapon available in the fight and an even smaller one in athletics/horsemanship as appropriate, without you having to watch the entire fight. It seems silly that they could win the tournament and get no XP for it.

.5 and tournament armour are the big ones for me though.

 

[blackeagle1405]

As of betting, it would be indeed an addition if you could bet at others, maybe as there already is the option to watch tournament, so if you watch it you should be able to bet on others.

 

[Aggrobiscuit]

Oddly, you can smith wooden weapons, so I'm unsure why they aren't used in tournaments. Maybe not all of the models are finished.

The thing that gets me with arena is the random loadout. This is especially bad in the Khuzait arena. You can spawn with a guy either side of you. One is throwing javelins and the other is firing arrows at you, and you happened to spawn with a rusty sword. It's not that rare to die within a couple seconds of spawning. Incredibly frustrating. Please let us pick our loadout at the very least, and sort something out with spawn points.

 

[stevehoos]

This area of the game is bland, no improvements since Warband at all. Someone at TW has some creativity that is being suppressed?

 

[Rik Halderman]

@Wulfsdottir These are good ideas. I've had a few of these things in mind myself for sometime now, most particularly wooden weapons and prizes won by your party members.. Since I haven't been playing for the last week or so I haven't got anything else that comes to mind for now but will be sure to add if anything pops up.

Also...

I just don't like to see how I slice off the face of my husband on Arena just to win mediocre level helmet And maybe it's TOO much to ask but... maybe different cries during the tournaments? Does my Sergeant Crossbower realize that I will kick his butt as soon as tournament is over after he shouted "Die you bastard" at me during the fake fight?

???

 

[badman]

this all sounds like a lot of work.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Different tiers of tournaments are, I think, essential.

Have a lowly brawl tournament to represent just fights that amount to little prestige and low-tier prizes, and then have more ocasional noble tournaments with established teams, big reputation spikes, some sections of melee and some of one on one, and yes, jousting hadn't developed in the Xth Century, but... do you care? I don't. Just add jousting, please. A jousting minigame where you have to manage aim, balance and stamina would be nice, but I know it's too much to ask for.

AND same armour for everyone, but personal heraldry.

 

[Wulfsdottir]

Tournaments happening as a culmination of economic process, (even better if it's tied to some in-game event like "coronation day" or "that big battle where we defeated all those filthy Vlandians happened exactly a year ago!") not just "because." At least for "larger" type of a tournament that would also attract lords to participate.

As an aside, we should have several "tiers" of tournaments - from anything open to every village bumpkin to exclusive events you need to pay a hefty fee to attend, if not be a noble outright. Or both.

Basically have a town start "preparations for tournament" that boost its requirement for specific goods. Food, obviously, wood, fabrics, whatnot. Either they get delivered by a specific date, or the tournament is cancelled (which should have a pretty big hit on relationship of the town's owner with all the other notables, if not other lords). Give both the player and AI possibility to throw money at generating "tournament-specific" caravans to fulfill the requirements, if necessary - or just announce better-priced opportunity to offload the required goods at their city to influence caravan AI.

Make the tournament prizes meaningful, and reflecting the genuine difficulty the event presents. If it's full of low-tier troops as participants - current level of prizes is pretty OK. If it's stacked with T4-5 units, much less lord and ladies participating, the damn prize should be more than something you blow - by then - chump change at the local marketplace on. If you needed it in the first place.

Preferably remove troops under T3 altogether, if we aren't getting different "quality" types of tournaments.

Different types of them - something that should be announced beforehand. This could also tie in with the different "quality," so a moshpit "grand melee" tournament is more open to commoners than elite nobles-only 1v1 duel tourney type.

For that matter, why are they all just outright fighting? Why don't we have tournaments that showcase skill in the same way that combat tutorial works in the Training Field, at least for ranged weapons? Why don't Khuzait have target tracks to show off your horsey pew-pewing, and Sturgians throwing-weapon targets for the same?

Why aren't we, as players, able to trigger tourmanents in our settlements, and why do those events not affect the prosperity of the settlement in any way, either?

Lastly, would be nice if you could ask for safe passage to participate in (more prestigious) tournaments from enemy factions, or buy it.

Nice ideas again ^_^
I would add jousting contest as well. It was such a big part of medieval tournaments (or at least books and movies want us to believe so ). I remember there was a mod in Warband that added that wooden railing to the arenas and two riders would ride from different sides and ends of the railing to each other. Felt like real knightly tournament.

+1 Agree wholeheartedly every point bar .2 as I'd rather they fix the AI for those weapons and I like being forced to use weapons outside my comfort zone so am happy keeping a broad range of gear even if some does play a bit daft now. I'd also would love the addition of tournament armour too.

Also saw a suggestion elsewhere to have a kingdom or perhaps all of Caladria yearly tournament which all free nobles in a kingdom/the land would attend so it would be much with higher difficulty, but higher stakes, better renown and rewards. Such a thing might have a renown requirement to enter, but would give you a reason to still go to a tournament or two even in the end game.

Only thing I would add is that I think that companions who win a round should be given a minor XP boost in a weapon available in the fight and an even smaller one in athletics/horsemanship as appropriate, without you having to watch the entire fight. It seems silly that they could win the tournament and get no XP for it.

.5 and tournament armour are the big ones for me though.

Yup. Agree. That's why I said remove OR improve AI. Improving Ai is the best solution of course. As a player it's not so bad. You at least have shield-bash to make them break their guard for you to spear, but watching two footman with those spears just standing at each other is pain

And agree about XP and yearly tournament as well.

Different tiers of tournaments are, I think, essential.

Have a lowly brawl tournament to represent just fights that amount to little prestige and low-tier prizes, and then have more ocasional noble tournaments with established teams, big reputation spikes, some sections of melee and some of one on one, and yes, jousting hadn't developed in the Xth Century, but... do you care? I don't. Just add jousting, please. A jousting minigame where you have to manage aim, balance and stamina would be nice, but I know it's too much to ask for.

AND same armour for everyone, but personal heraldry.

We kinda have that law level brawl in arena fights (no tournaments) but yes, you're right. Different tiers of tournament would be nice. And I wrote about jousting before I have read your comment. Glad we thought the same. As Calradia is only resembling the medieval world of our past and is not a copy of it, it's perfectly normal and not at all anachronistic to add such little details. Now if you add modern tanks and aviation, THAT would feel wrong, but not such things as jousting.

This area of the game is bland, no improvements since Warband at all. Someone at TW has some creativity that is being suppressed?

I'd say they went backwards after WB. Tournaments in WB felt more like tournaments with wooden weapons and armor.

Oddly, you can smith wooden weapons, so I'm unsure why they aren't used in tournaments. Maybe not all of the models are finished.

The thing that gets me with arena is the random loadout. This is especially bad in the Khuzait arena. You can spawn with a guy either side of you. One is throwing javelins and the other is firing arrows at you, and you happened to spawn with a rusty sword. It's not that rare to die within a couple seconds of spawning. Incredibly frustrating. Please let us pick our loadout at the very least, and sort something out with spawn points.

Khuzait arenas are also so small. No place to hide as well but that adds difficulty, not such a bad thing I guess.

 

[Tovgiv]

To be honest, I did not expect the tournament to remain the way it was mainly in the Warband.

1. AI Why in 2020 does AI act like something at the player level? They will always be something stupid and something that you can use for a fraudulent victory.
2. Why should I always see a "Buhurt" tournament?

And these are only the main disadvantages of the fact that the tournaments were rescheduled as they were in Warband.

 

[Bob Gnarly]

Great ideas, especially wooden weapons.

The Tournaments Enhanced mod incorporates some of these features like tournaments being called for events such as peace/weddings/birth/high prosperity, allows you to select from a prize pool, prizes are based on your renown, tourneys affect relations & prosperity, tournaments can be hosted in your own towns and more.