Horse-back archery almost unbeatable

[Owyn234]

This was also a problem in Warband, but even more so in Bannerlord. I'm marching along with 42 troops when out of nowhere a small group of literally 11 steppe bandits came charging at me. I initially thought it was humorous and mocked the small group of bandits until these horseback gods came in and absolutely demolished my men. We might of killed 1 or so and that is RIDICULOUS. Absolutely absurd and unrealistic and something needs to be done about this. Be it a nerf, a mod, or just a new added option to lower specifically horseback archer difficulty.

 

[VolsungaSaga]

I'm pretty sure this sort of horseback archery was one of the reasons Genghis Khan was able to stretch his Khanate so far. Maybe you should pack some light cavalry or some horse archers of your own to counter them.

 

[Gand]

All factions light cav need to be able to keep up with horse-archers. It would give them an actual niche to fill.

 

[helari]

Proper formationing (order facing, shield wall), archers and your own heavy or light cav can counter horse archers. If you can box in some archers with shields (split shield inf into 3-4 stacks) they can just take out the horse archers in due time.

Certainly trying to charge them with infantry and not ordering shield wall will just get your guys killed.

 

[Andthorn]

I find it easy to counter enemy archer cavalry by just using a horse myself, and a bow. Also, I tell my men to charge in shield wall position. Most of the time they wreck enemy cavalry this way. If cavalry gets too far, I also have light cavalry to pursue and engage them.

 

[IronSquid501]

This was the case in real life, too. However, in reality, they were not "levy soldiers" as with Khuzait horse archers, but rather people who had trained specifically for horse archery their entire lives, and were irreplaceable once lost. This is somewhat difficult to simulate in a video game.

 

[csefff]

although i haven't found this a problem, the tactics above are sound advice, I think when we have larger bands of brigands and deserters featuring horse archers with steppe horses it will be tough even for a mixed composition group. Might be nice to see a debuff for mount speed when using a bow or ranged in general (could be lifted with a perk later). this could be a persistent debuff or just a slight decrease whilst aiming. +1 for them being faster than heavy cav but catchable by light cav, light melee/spear cav are a bit sub-optimal atm

 

[ArminPyke]

imo it's fine it's how it should be you need good infantry with strong shields to keep the arrows away from your archers while they try to shoot some horses

 

[Nanitudine]

circle formation is the way i usually go, i found it amazing for let them finish all arrows, and then simply wait them to charge into my spearwall

 

[Kalin]

Horse archer cav isn't broken. It's realistic. You just have to charge them with heavy cav units.

 

[El Presidente]

I think it's noteworthy that while in game I can beat archer cav units even solo (Once they're out of arrows, every unit is just a pike stab away from getting killed). If you auto-calc horse archers will take out you're entire army, even if there's just 4 units, they can eliminate you. I lost my entire army without taking out a single unit and I have to fight them in battle if I want to win.

I know typically autocalc isn't a fair assessment, but it seems it could use some balancing.

While I do feel like horse archer cav is accurate in game, it isn't broken. What I do feel is that these units need to be expensive. Countering with infantry is a pain because you're usually guaranteed losses. Countering with archers isn't always feasible because it's moving target vs static target. Countering with light cav sucks because light cav aren't tanky enough, and heavy cav is slow.

A few suggestions on balancing then.

Rather than slowing horse archers, I would recommend horse bows have slower missle speed, and long bows have faster, so that standing archers are more capable of hitting horse archers.

Light cav could use some manueverability bonus's in order to reach horse archers with clever positioning. Perhaps just a bit more in horseman skill training could work.

Infantry A.I. really needs work on how to fight horses. They seem to be pretty good against the player, but don't seem to thrust when charged against by A.I. Maybe it's just luck, I dunno.

Formations can help, eg. Shieldwall is good, but when charged, it's thin so horse just runs through it. Circle opens up the back side of units to arrows, but good in concept. I think a Phalanx formation or would be really useful (essentially a tighter square formation that prioritises polearms and shields). Alternatively, a testudo formation would be similarly good, and allow the infantry to rotate to stay safe, I've tried using skein formation with mixed results.

Horse archers aren't invincible, we just need some balancing to happen so they're not so amazingly cost effective.

 

[Crpgnerd]

I think it's noteworthy that while in game I can beat archer cav units even solo (Once they're out of arrows, every unit is just a pike stab away from getting killed). If you auto-calc horse archers will take out you're entire army, even if there's just 4 units, they can eliminate you. I lost my entire army without taking out a single unit and I have to fight them in battle if I want to win.

I know typically autocalc isn't a fair assessment, but it seems it could use some balancing.

While I do feel like horse archer cav is accurate in game, it isn't broken. What I do feel is that these units need to be expensive. Countering with infantry is a pain because you're usually guaranteed losses. Countering with archers isn't always feasible because it's moving target vs static target. Countering with light cav sucks because light cav aren't tanky enough, and heavy cav is slow.

A few suggestions on balancing then.

Rather than slowing horse archers, I would recommend horse bows have slower missle speed, and long bows have faster, so that standing archers are more capable of hitting horse archers.

Light cav could use some manueverability bonus's in order to reach horse archers with clever positioning. Perhaps just a bit more in horseman skill training could work.

Infantry A.I. really needs work on how to fight horses. They seem to be pretty good against the player, but don't seem to thrust when charged against by A.I. Maybe it's just luck, I dunno.

Formations can help, eg. Shieldwall is good, but when charged, it's thin so horse just runs through it. Circle opens up the back side of units to arrows, but good in concept. I think a Phalanx formation or would be really useful (essentially a tighter square formation that prioritises polearms and shields). Alternatively, a testudo formation would be similarly good, and allow the infantry to rotate to stay safe, I've tried using skein formation with mixed results.

Horse archers aren't invincible, we just need some balancing to happen so they're not so amazingly cost effective.

means a great deal of the bows currently in use would need a rework. Most of what I see being used by archers are short bows minus Britannias.
I don't have issues with them since I use shield infantry. That and I don't trust the auto battle function, its something I've never trusted.

 

[Zero17000]

I think it's noteworthy that while in game I can beat archer cav units even solo (Once they're out of arrows, every unit is just a pike stab away from getting killed). If you auto-calc horse archers will take out you're entire army, even if there's just 4 units, they can eliminate you. I lost my entire army without taking out a single unit and I have to fight them in battle if I want to win.

I know typically autocalc isn't a fair assessment, but it seems it could use some balancing.

While I do feel like horse archer cav is accurate in game, it isn't broken. What I do feel is that these units need to be expensive. Countering with infantry is a pain because you're usually guaranteed losses. Countering with archers isn't always feasible because it's moving target vs static target. Countering with light cav sucks because light cav aren't tanky enough, and heavy cav is slow.

A few suggestions on balancing then.

Rather than slowing horse archers, I would recommend horse bows have slower missle speed, and long bows have faster, so that standing archers are more capable of hitting horse archers.

Light cav could use some manueverability bonus's in order to reach horse archers with clever positioning. Perhaps just a bit more in horseman skill training could work.

Infantry A.I. really needs work on how to fight horses. They seem to be pretty good against the player, but don't seem to thrust when charged against by A.I. Maybe it's just luck, I dunno.

Formations can help, eg. Shieldwall is good, but when charged, it's thin so horse just runs through it. Circle opens up the back side of units to arrows, but good in concept. I think a Phalanx formation or would be really useful (essentially a tighter square formation that prioritises polearms and shields). Alternatively, a testudo formation would be similarly good, and allow the infantry to rotate to stay safe, I've tried using skein formation with mixed results.

Horse archers aren't invincible, we just need some balancing to happen so they're not so amazingly cost effective.

Mainly I agree with your point on making them expensive.

Horse archery as someone else said is how Genghis Khan took over much of the world. It's a very powerful strategy, and should be a threat.

But it shouldn't be easy to access; they should be a serious drain on resources and take lots of time to get one.

Making light cavalry faster, maybe a bit better at handling their arrows, would be a good way to have an in game counter for them.