Firearms: Sorry, not enough complaints!

[Samael]

To state the obvious: firearms are extremely unbalanced and when compared to any other kind of weapon in the game it only has disadvantages, unless your target is standing still and close to you, you'll most likely miss the shot due to its awkward accuracy. But lets go over the points of this awesome addition to Mount and Blade:

1. Crappy accuracy (as mentioned above). As if that wasn't enough your crosshair actually expands when you zoom in. And you can hardly see what you're doing wrong when you're missing the shots and how can you correct it. The crosshair is so big (even more when zooming) that makes sniping almost impossible.

2. Low damage. Apparently, even leather armor can stop a bullet. So either your target is wearing bed sheets you probably gonna have to shoot him/her twice or more(unless it's a headshot) in order to kill. Even at close range.

3. You have to let go of the mouse button in order to shoot and you have to keep pressing it in order to stabilize the crosshair. Are we playing with slingshots? Not only it takes more time to shoot it almost makes it impossible for you to survive spawn kill (especially when you spawn next to a two-hander who kills you with one swing), and if you get hit by ANYTHING in the process you have to stabilize the crosshair again and you'll probably miss the shot. So some dude on a horse can run you over continuously and you'll never be able to shoot the damn gun.

4. Everything interrupts reload. And the best part is if you're THIS close to reloading your gun and you get interrupted the cooldown is refreshed. Apparently you drop everything on the ground minus the bullet

5. Smoke is awesome (not really). So, not only is your slingshot-type-of-gun inaccurately shooting rubber bullets, but you also leave a cloud behind. Almost like a squid leaves ink behind to confuse its predators  Oh but in the squid case it can serve as a distraction, on your case however (the shooter), it only serves to give away your position and to block your line of sight.

Even though I haven't made any suggestions, I'm pretty sure this is just...awful.

 

[Alec{zacool}]

I think you should probably practice a bit. You'll find that muskets are by far the best weapon in the game.

In close quarters you should also press X to switch to melee instead of trying to shoot them point blank. It's safer to whack them in the face.

 

[Swedish_lnvader]

it only has disadvantages

lol, keep playing the game for a while and you will notice how useful musketeers are. The deadliest warrior in the game is a good musketeer.

 

[Kneed]

it only has disadvantages

lol, keep playing the game for a while and you will notice how useful musketeers are. The deadliest warrior in the game is a good musketeer.

lol This will be the thread the devs read and it will result in buffs to muskets 

 

[Swedish_lnvader]

it only has disadvantages

lol, keep playing the game for a while and you will notice how useful musketeers are. The deadliest warrior in the game is a good musketeer.

lol This will be the thread the devs read and it will result in buffs to muskets 

I seriously hope not, they're enough buffed as they are, I would actually go with nerfing instead

 

[Scully]

Meh, life is hard enough for cav and infantry, don't make it harder.

 

[Rewjeo]

Wait, 1600's muskets are incapable of sniping? No way! By the way, the reticule has always gotten bigger when you zoom in. Try it with anything in this or WB (or, I'd assume, vanilla M&B, but I've never played it.) And I don't see why it doesn't make sense to have to actually aim before you shoot.

 

[caddux]

Jesus, I can't believe these people! Firearms are just perfect! Particularly now, after all the patches. You people should play the game a couple more hundreds of hours and stop complaining and maybe you'll learn something!
I'm sure the devs know they done an excellent job and will just laugh at this thread. Even if Armagan himself comes here to say every criticism is well accepted and taken into account...

 

[Queue]

Jesus, I can't believe these people! Firearms are just perfect! Particularly now, after all the patches. You people should play the game a couple more hundreds of hours and stop complaining and maybe you'll learn something!
I'm sure the devs know they done an excellent job and will just laugh at this thread. Even if Armagan himself comes here to say every criticism is well accepted and taken into account...

+1

 

[Samael]

When reading all these comments I get the feeling we're playing different games. We must be. I'm not saying muskets are useless, I'm saying they're underpowered. Muskets are far from perfect, and even though whacking people in the face with a firearm is fun it's next to useless when dealing with infantry. Especially if they're heavy armored and/or with a two-handed that'll slice open your paper helmet... And musketeers are the deadliest warrior in the game? I really didn't notice. Well I did notice when we're in greater numbers and in good covers to avoid cavalry charge, and that's about it. Or maybe if it's an 1-on-1 and the musketeer is far away in safety against infantry, or maybe on a rooftop where horses can't get there. If these type of events are what you guys base your opinions on then I'm through here.

 

[stroggy]

Oh no Cavalry...  Fire on my order... fire... Cavalry are dead....

 

[Naresh]

Samael, we really must be playing different games, because your musketeers seem to be armed with fire crackers and speedos...

Musketeers are the most effective units in the game, hands down no exceptions, apart possibly in seiges where a good sword goes a long way.

Arrange some 20-50 musketeers in 2 rows, hold position (top of a hill is best)
Fire on my command... fire, fire, fire, fire at will.

In most combats this will slaughter everything.

Now get a group of infantry, they might win against equal numbers, maybe even against greater numbers, but the losses will be higher, unless you play the little girls version of easiest damage, stupid AI and low numbers.

An infantry charge against well organised musketeers will NEVER work. I've had armies of a good hundred charge my 40 musketeers down, and we've whittled them down to nothing before they even get close.

Cavalry are good, but not good enough, they may be fast, they might take two bullets to take down, maybe 3 for hussars and reiters, but the point is, those musketeers will put a huge dent in a cavalry charge, and inflict crazy casualties, then you let the pikemen take care of the rest.

A good player can even stop the cavalry even charging... ever. 1. find a big hill, this will slow them down, and stop them lancing you.
or
2. use yourself as bait, the enemy will chase you while your guns pick them off one by one.


An idiot wins without orders and whatever units he can get through sheer stupid luck and numbers
A good player wins through tactics and good army compositions.

The good player will have less losses, more cash (due to less payments to men) be faster around the map (because he doesn't need as many men to survive) and better troops (because those that don't die upgrade! :p)

My travelling party generally includes some 30+ musketeers, 10-20 pikemen and a few elite cavs to act as a buffer and musket charge from the flank.

I play on "normal" mode and I rarely lose, if ever, generally due to me getting shot in the head by a lucky marksmen.

Take advice Samael, learn to play, then come back.
If you don't like guns (I can understand due to lack of speed, and the huge number of kills other people will be getting)
Try a bow, faster, more kills, more XP.

 

[ExplodingCabbage]

1. Crappy accuracy (as mentioned above).

Depends on the musket. With any musket, you should be able to pretty consistently hit people at say, 10 metres. With Miquelets, you can reliably hit at maybe double that distance. And since the maps aren't miles acoss, you always have a meaningful chance of hitting at any range.

As if that wasn't enough your crosshair actually expands when you zoom in.

Well, what did you expect? That you'd magically become several times more accurate? I don't really understand this point.

And you can hardly see what you're doing wrong when you're missing the shots and how can you correct it.

This is true, and it makes learning to use muskets much harder and more frustrating than learning to use bows or crossbows was in Warband. Often you can't make out where your bullet travelled at all. That makes learning how to lead shots, and how high to aim to account for bullet drop, and just getting a feel for how accurate the muskets are, fairly hard and un-fun. I don't really know what to advise other than to keep practising; once you get a feel for how to use them, muskets become a whole bunch more effective.

2. Low damage. Apparently, even leather armor can stop a bullet. So either your target is wearing bed sheets you probably gonna have to shoot him/her twice or more(unless it's a headshot) in order to kill. Even at close range.

Un- or light-armoured targets take 1-2 shots with most muskets, and pretty much always 1 shot with a Miquelet. Heavily armoured targets can take 2, 3, or even 4 shots depending upon the musket, the armour, and luck. On the bright side, heavily armoured targets are easier to hit, easier to run away from, easier to headshot, and basically are bullet-magnets.

3. You have to let go of the mouse button in order to shoot and you have to keep pressing it in order to stabilize the crosshair.

If this bothers you, move around aiming constantly, accept the speed drop this incurs, and be able to shoot instantly like in an FPS.

Not only it takes more time to shoot it almost makes it impossible for you to survive spawn kill (especially when you spawn next to a two-hander who kills you with one swing)

Well, again, what did you expect? You can mitigate the risk by putting a melee weapon in your top slot, but if you spawn in melee range of a melee infantryman as a musketeer, you should die. Your best gambit in the situation you describe is either to melee with your musket, or to try and dodge a swing by running past your opponent as they attack, then spin and shoot them in the back. Don't expect a high rate of success with either tactic, though.

So some dude on a horse can run you over continuously and you'll never be able to shoot the damn gun.

There's no way to repeatedly trample someone that fast. Turning takes time.

if you're THIS close to reloading your gun and you get interrupted the cooldown is refreshed.

Sounds like a bug. I've never encountered this myself.

Smoke... only serves to give away your position

No, not really at all. At any range, smoke is much less visible than a big dude in a uniform with a musket.

and to block your line of sight.

Again, not really. Just take a step to the side.

 

[Majestic7]

I think firearms are right now just awesome. Multiplayer just needs a little balancing. Mainly, Swedish musketeers should lose some firearms skill and/or Miquelets should get nerfed. Actually, I'd like to see all muskets doing slightly higher damage. Miquelets could stay at the same level, but the Swedish sniper spam problem really needs to be handled somehow. (Although it alone isn't the problem; them having the best musketeers and the best infantry is.)

In single player, I use 2/3 musketeers with rest being heavy infantry. It works just fine against..umm...everything.

 

[mesor]

Im on hard at the moment and im using 0 muskets in my assault force .

I hold 4 city's each guarded by 100 tatar infantry 150 european marksmen then a mix of whatever i trained in the city's and nobody has been able to brake in my newest city just repelled the combined force of the tsar nation without me needing to join in.

My assault force is basicly me and about 100 cossack's ( large numbers so that in long battle's or repeated fights i dont get whittled down and overwhelmed.
If your smart u can get muskets just form ur cavalry into 1 line spread them way out then charge.
My men r so spread out i hit them on both  flanks and the center.
I generally lose maybe 1-2 men to death in the charge 7-8 wounded then once i hit ill kill a good 15-20 in the first 10 or so seconds of the fight then its just a slug fest my men's pistols and maces vs the enemy follow up waves which r scattered as soon as they spawn then when my 2nd wave come's if the battle is still going i overwhelm the enemy entirely.

Then with muskets its a cake walk now it took me about a week of 3-4 hours a day playing to get used to them and work out how to adjust my aim for moving targets and bullet drop once id got used to it though i can take the head of a hussar from the oposite end of the map 9 times out of 10 with 1 shot although my personal favorite is to blow the enemy generals head off and watch half hes men turn and run away .
Im playing as a cavalry fighter but i only use sword and board for that so i have a musket on me to start any fight with the enemy's general's head falling off when he's in the middle of he's we cant lose do not fear them speech .

 

[Samael]

Thanks Naresh but I wasn't talking about single-player. My fault, I didn't specify.

ExplodingCabbage, I'll try to respond in the same manner:

Depends on the musket. With any musket, you should be able to pretty consistently hit people at say, 10 metres. With Miquelets, you can reliably hit at maybe double that distance. And since the maps aren't miles acoss, you always have a meaningful chance of hitting at any range.

Much of which is dependent on luck. Not all shots go within the crosshair. Doesn't happen often (thankfully) but sometimes the bullet will fly to whatever destination it wants to, even if the person/bot you're aiming at is right in front of you. But yes, around 10 meters or so is more or less a sure thing, although if I miss I'm dead, or rather if the bullet doesn't wanna go to where I'm aiming at. Kind of a bummer if you keep getting the short end of the stick in these occasions.

Well, what did you expect? That you'd magically become several times more accurate? I don't really understand this point.

No. I'd pretty much like it to stay as it were. The zooming in while aiming down a firearm actually expands the crosshair a little, making your weapon... well, less accurate. Unless you're zooming in on the crosshair too?

Well, again, what did you expect? You can mitigate the risk by putting a melee weapon in your top slot, but if you spawn in melee range of a melee infantryman as a musketeer, you should die. Your best gambit in the situation you describe is either to melee with your musket, or to try and dodge a swing by running past your opponent as they attack, then spin and shoot them in the back. Don't expect a high rate of success with either tactic, though.

I'd expect not to respawn and die 3, 4, 5 times in a row to some heavily-armored dude with a two-handed weapon next to me (just to take a recent example) that kills me with one hit without me ever having a chance to at least defend myself. Sure I can put a melee weapon in my top slot and I maybe even parry 2, 3 hits or more just to die a little later. And that's the main problem with having to release the button in order to shoot a firearm.

There's no way to repeatedly trample someone that fast. Turning takes time.

Yea I exaggerated a little bit back there. But that's the magic of it, it was only a little. The horse can be moving at baby crawling speed and still trample you and screw up your aim/reload. Or he/she can just go around you at said speed, trampling you from time to time and raining down arrows Legolas-style. GL shooting down the bastard. I tried using the musket at a stick, but his heavy armor didn't bother much.

No, not really at all. At any range, smoke is much less visible than a big dude in a uniform with a musket.

We must be playing at different graphical settings then. When people see smoke, there's usually a musketeer nearby. Like a damn smoke signal saying "HEY I'M HERE AND I'M RELOADING". So in a way it does make your uniform and musket more target-friendly.

Again, not really. Just take a step to the side.

Depends on the situation. Sometimes you can just take a step to the side, other times taking a step to the side will make you vulnerable...