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Females of Bannerlord
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Better yet, Calradia is post-gender. No men or women allowed.
That depends very much on culture, place and time. In the time frame of the game and geographic area that it supposed to represent, leaders were usually expected to lead from the front and participate in fighting. That wasn't always the case, but it was most common.
I did not see statistic that would confirm that. Vanguard was usually force that was supposed to scout ahead and cower the main body of the army, therefore it would not typically be led by the main commander. He was either with the center or the right wing, which was in many cultures considered to be position of honor. In cases reserve was tasked with decisive action, he might command reserve. If there was reserve detached from the army, which often was not.
There were many variations of forming medieval armies, like forming in to 3 lines (behind each other) and while main commander might not have been in the first line, that does not mean he was not participating in battle.
For example in the battle of Murret during Abigensian Crussades, French Crusaders and Spanish king and his allies both formed their armies in to 3 lines. French commander was in the third line while Spanish king in the second. French commander maneuvered his third line around and hit Spanish in to the flank while they were engaged with first two French lines. Spanish king died in the battle.
There are exactly no recorded stories of her battering anybody. Or to be precise, there are no records of her actually fighting in battle. The only recorded cases of her ever using one of her swords (she owned 3 as far as we know), was when she beat camp followers with is using the flat side.
Now Joan is actually recorded to lead charges in battle and was at last on one occasion captured in battle, so it should tell you enough about all the other "warrior women" nonsense out there.
Usually at the front of a (often mounted) retinue or elite unit, not fighting shoulder to shoulder with footslogging levy infantry (In pitched battle). For example the Byzantine Emperors from Basil II onwards using Varangians or Alexander's Companion Cavalry, he wasn't holding a sarissa in the phalanx.
Leading from a position of relative safety surrounded by dependable, loyal troops, not with the bulk of the force unless needed.
Many monarchs & commanders killed in battle were from the late Dark Age - early Middle Age as the importance of heavy cavalry was growing still and weapons were far more deadly to nobles.
Scouts would be detachments from the Van' but the Vanguard is the head of the column on the march and the first to battle order. The entire Vanguard of an army was not scouting at once. And once in position the van' would often become the right battle. Often where most of the mounted units would be - light cavalry (Such as Hobelars) would be the ones scouting. As for it being an honour, yes it was. That's why command of the right battle would often be left to the eldest son (Edward the Black Prince at Crecy for example commanded the right not his Father as he was overall commander in the rear with the mounted, predominantly noble, reserve).
The three battles system was almost standard across western European armies by the late middle ages. It's usage varied a lot with some countries using a three stage column and others using them to form a line.
Other versions of it had been in use since the Roman era and probably before so it's fairly standard and logical throughout organised armies.
Not the best example, it was a sally and wasn't a pitched battle. Simon De Montfort had ~900 horse and not even that number of infantry, going for Peters banner and thus the throat of the besieging army was his only option. And even then, Monfort lead the third line which was the reserve.
Probably more because it would not be wise to give the enemy a shot at killing you and thus routing your army, just like the previous example. Being seen and heard, but safe, is more important for a commander.
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Even more : Only cats !
Cats everywhere !
cursed furry calradia mod
Scardan Youmans
Recruit
I want a game that simulates medieval world with it's sexism. I want to have female pretenders like we have in Warband, because we had some female rulers in history and i hope, that we will be able to marry them. I don't want to have female lords in Bannerlord, unless i decide to play as female or make one of female npc companion a lord. And i hope, that playing as female in Bannerlord will be much more difficult and satisfying because of medieval woman discrimination simulation.
If any brainwashed "social justice warrior" has problems with medieval sexism in game with medieval setting based on our medieval times, the exit is there ?
Go away.
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Haha yes I'm sure devs will happily tell potential sales to **** right off because your vision doesn't fit their lore.
It's still a massively male-dominated Calradia, stop worrying, your SIMULATION and IMMERSION will not be affected. It might though when you realize your character doesn't get the plague, but let's not put SIMULATION there shall we?
And just to be clear I'm fine with sexism if it means fun roleplay. But you're putting very weird limits and where you're drawing the line is abstract at best. You want realism but no female lords, which is in essence not very historical anyway.
It has nothing to do with SJW, really.
You mean, you can play it if you were born female?
Yes. Any males playing the game will be castrated.
Tukata
Recruit
Same here, I hope there will be a mod to reduce the number of women commander (to zero, preferably) in every faction other than Battania. It completely breaks my immersion. Even Battania should have a ratio of 6 or 7 male commanders for 1 female. Celtic women warrior were very rare.
I don't think you need to worry about a lot of women being vassals in the single-player since there's only one female faction leader. However, as Bannerlord is taking place earlier in the history of Calradia, you might in rare cases see or make female companions or wives into commanders.
Implying it'd break your immersion is like me saying Wolfenstein is breaking my immersion as MechaHitler didn't exist in real-life. This is Armagans universe, not yours or mine. It might be based on real-life myths or cultures, but it sure ain't meant to be a reflection of real-life.
Timmortal
Knight at Arms
WHAAAAAT! MechaHitler surely must have existed, otherwise who do you explain all the nazi zombies? Atleast the SJWs did not put female nazi zombies in there, that would completely have broken my immersion that it takes place in WW2.
Tukata
Recruit
Not really.
Bannerlord vanilla = Armagan universe.
Bannerlord with mods = Your own universe.
I don't ask the dev to modify their game and make less commanders women, that's their world, their vision, but mods exist to change this world and adapt it to the tastes of each player. I like my low fantasy settings really low and grounded in reality, so yes, women commanding troupes on the battlefield is immersion breaking for me, and I accept the fact that other players may like that or would even want more women. That's why I'm only asking a mod, not a modification in the base game.
Cornnflaeks
Recruit
You know what my problem is with the feminists in this thread? (And in general). None of you argue in good faith. You shame and attempt to diminish and humiliate people you don't agree with as heretics. And it's because you think people who don't agree with you are bigots that are trying to make excuses for their bigotry, so anything they say can be dismissed. You're pathetic.
Initial argument: there should be no women in combat or command roles in this game because that never happened historically.
Counter-argument: lol no here are a ton of historical sources proving you wrong, and also it's a video game with hundreds of other inaccuracies which you don't seem to care about.
Nobody should have to argue against something as ridiculous as the first point. It's one step above believing in a flat earth. If some light trolling and dismissiveness is enough to make you cry like this then you need to grow some thicker skin. Were you bullied at school?
Counter-argument: lol no here are a ton of historical sources proving you wrong, and also it's a video game with hundreds of other inaccuracies which you don't seem to care about.
Nobody should have to argue against something as ridiculous as the first point. It's one step above believing in a flat earth. If some light trolling and dismissiveness is enough to make you cry like this then you need to grow some thicker skin. Were you bullied at school?
Initial argument: In Warband when you made a female character, the game was ramped up in difficulty, and the game told you so, because a medieval setting represents a universe that is not kind to women, not when war ravages entire lands. So making it as a woman in Warband, made it all the more satisfying, having to fight a more uphill battle. Especially when other lords treated you differently. It was a very engaging experience to have to fight and bear that struggle.
Similarly I will take as an example one of the best mods for Warband, Prophesy of Pendor, which adds upon that with a few minor factions of nordic style shield maidens, serpent priestesses, etc, that add a really cool flavor to the world. Playing Mulan or Joan d'Arc makes it engaging and a really exciting experience because of the trials and tribulations they had to go through as women. If Mulan was instead Malelan and Joan was John d'Malearc, their stories would have just been another one like the others. I doubt they would have stood out among the dozens and hundreds of other Malelans and Johns d'Malearc's.
Heck, the most fun I had in PoP was playing a female character and gathering an army of Heroine Adventurers and Maccavian Valkyries and taking down the other Knightly Orders. There would also be heretical orders that had ladies in waiting as their prisoners, and upon freeing them, you could ransom them, free them or arm them so they could join you. And if they did join you, seeing them grow through the fires of battle was something special. It made for amazing stories to tell and for good memories, because the experience itself differed from what would have been otherwise, if the game was like Bannerlord.
Counter-argument: Loooool Mulan exists hence all of China during that time had armies of hundreds of thousands of women and female generals and and and... ooooh these are really rose tinted glasses I am wearing... sooo pretty... did you know Cleopatra existed? Yeah, that means Caesar's name was actually Caesara, and she was a woman!! Yaaaay!!!
Joking aside, there is a really visible and clear jump from what was a gameplay mechanic in Warband, to what is painfully a political statement in Bannerlord. One that makes no sense beyond pandering. Those who complain about female commanders and lords have a certain truth to their complaints, but they way it sometimes is expressed is lacking. Those who defend the female commanders and lords also have a certain truth to their poisition as well, but go down a even more lacking route to do it, adopting a very toxic method of counter argument.
My personal experience for example was when doing the Banner quest, one of the nobles I met was the leader of the Southern Empire, which I found really cool. "An Empress, niiiiiice, that's a sweet change." I admit, I liked it. I had three lady companions in my party already as well. But then I began to notice that I was meeting in combat more and more lady generals, and in the taverns more and more lady companions. This made search up because I though it was a bug. But no, companions I found out are randomly generated... which made me sad to know my lady companions were not unique... no more Adonja, Sara the Fox, Riva... I miss them dearly already...
But seeing nordic lady generals repeatedly, began rubbing me the wrong way too. On one hand it made me realize that playing a female character was no longer unique... it was just another dime a dozen experience, an aesthetic choice... not a gameplay changing one. Then I began thinking about a fun book I read, with lady vikings, where to fit in with the raiders they behave and acted like the guys, spitting, hollaring, overall acting like boring, brutish dudes but with breasts. So in turn that made me see the lady generals in game just as well, fitting in and being as smug and "I am strong!! Because women are just like men!" kind of attitude. Which is turn makes me sad, for in a way, the game tells me that yeah, everyone is the same, everyone is a assembly line product, grey and uniform, just like the days of Papa Stalin.
So, for those claiming a moral high ground on this by stalwart defending equality and fighting only misogyny with their mighty moral axes, do think about it for a moment and try to be a bit more understanding, at least to those who were hoping for diversity. Equality in a game is fine and all, actually in all matters its fine, but diversity of choice, meaning of choice and meaningful repercussions of those choices make for better games, for better stories, for better experiences.
Personally, I don't care either way. I am saddened only by the loss of value incurred by the gameplay change, and of apparent modern western politics making it into what should be a fun game. Sad part is, these politics will not age well, if this game lasts like Warband almost a decade of active playing.
(PS: I wonder how many people will just reply to all of this with "Lol misogynist!")
Similarly I will take as an example one of the best mods for Warband, Prophesy of Pendor, which adds upon that with a few minor factions of nordic style shield maidens, serpent priestesses, etc, that add a really cool flavor to the world. Playing Mulan or Joan d'Arc makes it engaging and a really exciting experience because of the trials and tribulations they had to go through as women. If Mulan was instead Malelan and Joan was John d'Malearc, their stories would have just been another one like the others. I doubt they would have stood out among the dozens and hundreds of other Malelans and Johns d'Malearc's.
Heck, the most fun I had in PoP was playing a female character and gathering an army of Heroine Adventurers and Maccavian Valkyries and taking down the other Knightly Orders. There would also be heretical orders that had ladies in waiting as their prisoners, and upon freeing them, you could ransom them, free them or arm them so they could join you. And if they did join you, seeing them grow through the fires of battle was something special. It made for amazing stories to tell and for good memories, because the experience itself differed from what would have been otherwise, if the game was like Bannerlord.
Counter-argument: Loooool Mulan exists hence all of China during that time had armies of hundreds of thousands of women and female generals and and and... ooooh these are really rose tinted glasses I am wearing... sooo pretty... did you know Cleopatra existed? Yeah, that means Caesar's name was actually Caesara, and she was a woman!! Yaaaay!!!
Joking aside, there is a really visible and clear jump from what was a gameplay mechanic in Warband, to what is painfully a political statement in Bannerlord. One that makes no sense beyond pandering. Those who complain about female commanders and lords have a certain truth to their complaints, but they way it sometimes is expressed is lacking. Those who defend the female commanders and lords also have a certain truth to their poisition as well, but go down a even more lacking route to do it, adopting a very toxic method of counter argument.
My personal experience for example was when doing the Banner quest, one of the nobles I met was the leader of the Southern Empire, which I found really cool. "An Empress, niiiiiice, that's a sweet change." I admit, I liked it. I had three lady companions in my party already as well. But then I began to notice that I was meeting in combat more and more lady generals, and in the taverns more and more lady companions. This made search up because I though it was a bug. But no, companions I found out are randomly generated... which made me sad to know my lady companions were not unique... no more Adonja, Sara the Fox, Riva... I miss them dearly already...
But seeing nordic lady generals repeatedly, began rubbing me the wrong way too. On one hand it made me realize that playing a female character was no longer unique... it was just another dime a dozen experience, an aesthetic choice... not a gameplay changing one. Then I began thinking about a fun book I read, with lady vikings, where to fit in with the raiders they behave and acted like the guys, spitting, hollaring, overall acting like boring, brutish dudes but with breasts. So in turn that made me see the lady generals in game just as well, fitting in and being as smug and "I am strong!! Because women are just like men!" kind of attitude. Which is turn makes me sad, for in a way, the game tells me that yeah, everyone is the same, everyone is a assembly line product, grey and uniform, just like the days of Papa Stalin.
So, for those claiming a moral high ground on this by stalwart defending equality and fighting only misogyny with their mighty moral axes, do think about it for a moment and try to be a bit more understanding, at least to those who were hoping for diversity. Equality in a game is fine and all, actually in all matters its fine, but diversity of choice, meaning of choice and meaningful repercussions of those choices make for better games, for better stories, for better experiences.
Personally, I don't care either way. I am saddened only by the loss of value incurred by the gameplay change, and of apparent modern western politics making it into what should be a fun game. Sad part is, these politics will not age well, if this game lasts like Warband almost a decade of active playing.
(PS: I wonder how many people will just reply to all of this with "Lol misogynist!")
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hmm, this game seems really good actually.
Wehveechen
Regular
Fam if seeing a woman leading an army in your game completely disrupts your enjoyment of said game, you might want to work through some of those issues. Personally I'm all down for seeing a wider variety of characters in power because frankly, why not?
Landstrider
Recruit
This is actually my exact opinion on this as well, thank you for taking the time to putting it into words. There is certainly a tinge of truth to both sides of the argument here, but your last points are was really sold me because it almost exactly mirrors my experience with the game.
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