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Females of Bannerlord
- Thread starter Samuuel
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Knight at Arms
Do you really expect something else from the high levels of chauvinism and misogyny that exist within the M&B community?
The game lore is fantasy. TW has been inspired by real-life cultures, but also myths/debatable historical figures such as shield-maidens, etc.
As for vassals or female rulers, yeah, that exist in real-life too ever since the first civilization. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_queens_regnant
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This reminds me of that battlefield V trailer. The entire thing was absurdly unrealistic, almost deliberately so, but a lot of the criticism went directly to the fact that there was a woman in it. I read the phrase "transgendered disabled lesbian feminist heroine" about a hundred times despite it literally just being a woman with a prosthetic arm.
I can actually understand the kind of gut reaction to seeing women in a medieval setting, it sometimes "feels" wrong in an implacable kind of way, and can come across as pandering if it's poorly incorporated into the story. But that has way more to do with ingrained pop culture and aesthetic ideals about the middle ages than actual historical rigor, and if any other element was poorly incorporated into a story you would just blame the writing rather than a "liberal agenda".
You would probably feel the same way seeing black people in a show about the Tudors even though black british people existed in relatively high numbers back then.
I can actually understand the kind of gut reaction to seeing women in a medieval setting, it sometimes "feels" wrong in an implacable kind of way, and can come across as pandering if it's poorly incorporated into the story. But that has way more to do with ingrained pop culture and aesthetic ideals about the middle ages than actual historical rigor, and if any other element was poorly incorporated into a story you would just blame the writing rather than a "liberal agenda".
You would probably feel the same way seeing black people in a show about the Tudors even though black british people existed in relatively high numbers back then.
Frankly, if women are presented in positions of power in my bone chillingly realistic, kino RPG set in an alternative fantasy world taking Hollywood tier aesthetic and doctrinal influence from real world cultures and groups, then well, that's just not on, is it?
This. It baffles me how many people there are that have absolutely admirable knowledge of arms, armor and tactics in a given period with a great deal of nuance, but then their understanding of the complexities of gender relations in the olden days comes straight from crap like Braveheart or 300 (Not referring to anyone here, just a recurring theme on lectures). And overtly political inaccuracies, like the fetishistic obsession with an east/west conflict in 300 or the 19th Century fairy tale nationalism of Braveheart are brushed aside with no comment.
Back to topic, I always thought WB was doing a fine job in how the lords treated the player character if they were female. Playing a woman in Calradia makes the early game harder in many ways, and you do have to work harder to prove yourself. There is real, tangible tension because the player character by nature is violating the patriarchal norms of Calradia.
I hope BL brings the Female NPC side of things up to speed, showing noble women wielding power at court, handling affairs and yes, sometimes leading troops. In WB none of the women ever do anything except hang around court and sometimes plead you to rescue their husbands from jail. To give an example of more domestic power being used: queen Dorothea of Denmark loaned her husband, king Christian I, the money he needed to buy Schleswig and Holstein. When Chris couldn't pay up, Dorothea seized the duchies and ruled them herself. She was also regent whenever her husband was campaigning, which might be difficult to represent in Bannerlord as M&B campaigns tend to be very brief.
I'm glad there are people on this forum that can articulate complex things this clearly. So i don't have to try to. Well said.
In Warband, there was women fighting better than any man, they were leading factions and some even became ruler of all Calradia.
I think this is a salient detail that a lot of people overlook in these kinds of discussions. We aren't talking about accuracy here. No one is complaining about the lack of troops dying of dysentery, the over simplification of the feudal system, or the amount of sieges which end in a battle instead of with one side giving up after months of attrition. We're talking about verisimilitude, whether the medieval world presented to us here matches similar presentations we've seen elsewhere and are familiar with. The Hollywood boogiemen that people are so afraid are shoving feminist propaganda down our throats are the same Hollywood boogiemen who spent years telling us stories about manly knights and damsels in distress. Appetites have changed. People like stories where women have agency and as luck would have it, history has a few examples from which to draw inspiration.
From this thread it would seem that the majority of us are in agreement that female warriors and leaders should be included. So I don't know why you're saying the community is overly chauvinistic.
Time to add to this already silly thread.
If anything I would like the implementation of prejudice against women.
Okok hang on here me out. I think there should be a difference between the playstyles for genders, with females having a harder time in Calradia for GAMEPLAY reasons(like Warband). Being a warrior woman, and catching the attention of a fellow lord through various combats rather than just courting sounds great. But having a male-dominated army as a female makes morale harder to sustain, or occasionally get challenged by one of your high tier soldiers like in TLD orcs?
Remember this?
"The mother, is us, the player, a woman named Boudicca: a caravan raider hailing from the misty foothills of Battania. On our travels (read: raids), we managed to steal the heart of Usair, an Aserai warlord who sports a proud moustache."
Female commanders, I just hope there can be an actual reason to pick other than the aesthetic of choosing one or the other.
If anything I would like the implementation of prejudice against women.
Okok hang on here me out. I think there should be a difference between the playstyles for genders, with females having a harder time in Calradia for GAMEPLAY reasons(like Warband). Being a warrior woman, and catching the attention of a fellow lord through various combats rather than just courting sounds great. But having a male-dominated army as a female makes morale harder to sustain, or occasionally get challenged by one of your high tier soldiers like in TLD orcs?
Remember this?
"The mother, is us, the player, a woman named Boudicca: a caravan raider hailing from the misty foothills of Battania. On our travels (read: raids), we managed to steal the heart of Usair, an Aserai warlord who sports a proud moustache."
Female commanders, I just hope there can be an actual reason to pick other than the aesthetic of choosing one or the other.
Time to add to this already silly thread.
If anything I would like the implementation of prejudice against women.
Okok hang on here me out. I think there should be a difference between the playstyles for genders, with females having a harder time in Calradia for GAMEPLAY reasons(like Warband). Being a warrior woman, and catching the attention of a fellow lord through various combats rather than just courting sounds great. But having a male-dominated army as a female makes morale harder to sustain, or occasionally get challenged by one of your high tier soldiers like in TLD orcs?
Remember this?
"The mother, is us, the player, a woman named Boudicca: a caravan raider hailing from the misty foothills of Battania. On our travels (read: raids), we managed to steal the heart of Usair, an Aserai warlord who sports a proud moustache."
Female commanders, I just hope there can be an actual reason to pick other than the aesthetic of choosing one or the other.
Exactly this! I'm all in for including women, but make them different. Make it harder if you will, or just plainly different. Not just an aesthetic change, but the hardships being one would carry, to a fun extent. And by that I don't mean "Oh you're a woman, -10 Strength gain for the rest of the campaign" kind of mechanic. That sort of hardships ain't fun. I mean it in a more roleplaying manner.
The entire debate is silly. Discussions as to whether or not depictions of women in positions of power or military responsibility are unrealistic is an excuse. A lot of things about Warband and Bannerlord are incredibly unrealistic. That's just a fundamental part of it being a game, an avenue by which you can simulate reality. In the end it's a simulation, so it cannot be a perfect representation, and it's going to be "ahistorical". The purpose isn't for it to be historical, but for it to be entertaining to play. What's telling is that people get irritated by the "unrealistic" portions that bother them personally, and ignore those that make it entertaining for them. If you're bothered by woman commanders and soldiers in a fictional video game, then I sincerely doubt you care at all about "historical realism".
That being said I agree with other people in this thread who have noted that it would be nice to have certain difficulties that come with playing a woman character. Obviously this isn't crucial, but it would add an interesting element to the game-play.
That being said I agree with other people in this thread who have noted that it would be nice to have certain difficulties that come with playing a woman character. Obviously this isn't crucial, but it would add an interesting element to the game-play.
Hilariously this kind of thinking in warband made women extremely overpowered in the lategame. If you could get a husband chances are he was a good personality lord with high renown, and being your husband he would never refuse orders, meaning you could "store" your troops in his army and have him follow you around. You could basically double or even triple your combat potential for no cost and never have to worry about morale ever again.
Since AI women in warband are so useless, playing as a man and getting married is just missing out on a tonne of potential.
I just want to add that if there are women who only serve as courtiers, like typical ladies in Warband, then I hope there are men that have the same role. Something out of Game of Thrones like Little-finger and Varys. People with influence and skill to navigate the political landscape. Having such an ally shouldn't be limited to only men marrying ladies.
Friend or Partner, the game would be more interesting with any gender in any role. At the same time, I agree that I like it game-wise when the genders are treated differently because different characters offer different experiences.
Friend or Partner, the game would be more interesting with any gender in any role. At the same time, I agree that I like it game-wise when the genders are treated differently because different characters offer different experiences.
Late game use of the influence system for intrigue perhaps?
Oh absolutely. I want a friend at court that knows the latest gossip, which lord that wouldn't refuse what trade, how to poison someone's wine, or what partnerships are in shambles, which marriages are planned, and how to engage with different lords' personalities. The sky is the limit!
It's my experience after ten years of mainly playing the multi-player aspect of the game. Although, chauvinism is generally more common in the NW DLC, probably due to the Napoleonic era being the birthchild of some modern conservative ideas.
As for the single-player, there isn't a lot in the game-series to complain about if you got strong traditionalist values. The only female vassal/queen in-game in Warband would be yourself if you decide to play as a woman (unless you help Arwa), otherwise the wives are always home cooking some food for you. That's why you can expect sexists and other kinds of extremists to be lurking in the shadows within the community as a whole. They might just not be loud here or on the steam store page.
In my experience, any medieval game community contains a few right-wing nuttjobs lowkey glorifying the crusades and anti-middle-eastern sentiments. All these games doubles as their power fantasy lmaoThat's why you can expect sexists and other kinds of extremists to be lurking in the shadows within the community as a whole. They might just not be loud here or on the steam store page.
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