Feinting - pls give

[Akkarin1212]

Why not just let em keep it the way it currently is being handled in the game. If such a majority of ppl want to have those skill duels let em create a mod with animations for it. All the pros can then duel in their games and newbies can experience a relaxed multiplayer battle in their own pace without having those skill caps and learning curves to actually achieve sth.

 

[Hrulj]

Im sad to see that guy who spent less than a 20 minutes total of multiplayer deserve to have an opinion on this. Hitting skill cap to be good at hit-blocking takes around 2 hours. Hitting a skill cap to be able to block every feint and to feint well takes years. Im also sad to say that with my 2000 hours im still unable to block feints well, but thats actually normal. This is the reason we want feinting back., it increaces skill cap drastically.

Spent that much time very explicitly due to feint spam. I have a right to experience full game that I pay for

 

[grimsight]

Here we see the crux of the matter, players not willing to learn the basics

M&B's mechanical skill cap is on par with games like CSGO and DOTA. The game is not advertised to be a vehicle for skill though, only to have epic battles. Meaning the majority of people that pick up this game are not at all interested in the advanced techniques.

 

[Hrulj]

Here we see the crux of the matter, players not willing to learn the basics

M&B's mechanical skill cap is on par with games like CSGO and DOTA. The game is not advertised to be a vehicle for skill though, only to have epic battles. Meaning the majority of people that pick up this game are not at all interested in the advanced techniques.

There's skill and then there's not seeing fun in spamming. I really don't see what's hard about understanding that.

 

[grimsight]

Here we see the crux of the matter, players not willing to learn the basics

M&B's mechanical skill cap is on par with games like CSGO and DOTA. The game is not advertised to be a vehicle for skill though, only to have epic battles. Meaning the majority of people that pick up this game are not at all interested in the advanced techniques.

There's skill and then there's not seeing fun in spamming. I really don't see what's hard about understanding that.

Well spamming and feinting are two different subjects. With a bit of focus on these two areas (also footwork) you will be better than 90% of the people you come across on siege servers. I understand that most people don't care to learn these things, as they are playing M&B to have fun not to be the best. That's the issue here though, there are 2 polar opposite modes of play. I don't see a solution other than giving server owners the ability to switch between "slow/realistic", and "fast/competitive" melee modes.

Just understand the hostility from the competitive community is because you are demanding the removal of our entire mode of play...

 

[Hrulj]

Here we see the crux of the matter, players not willing to learn the basics

M&B's mechanical skill cap is on par with games like CSGO and DOTA. The game is not advertised to be a vehicle for skill though, only to have epic battles. Meaning the majority of people that pick up this game are not at all interested in the advanced techniques.

There's skill and then there's not seeing fun in spamming. I really don't see what's hard about understanding that.

Well spamming and feinting are two different subjects. With a bit of focus on these two areas (also footwork) you will be better than 90% of the people you come across on siege servers. I understand that most people don't care to learn these things, as they are playing M&B to have fun not to be the best. That's the issue here though, there are 2 polar opposite modes of play. I don't see a solution other than giving server owners the ability to switch between "slow/realistic", and "fast/competitive" melee modes.

Just understand the hostility from the competitive community is because you are demanding the removal of our entire mode of play...

They are niche players and I have nothing against giving them niche modes of gameplay. But if the choice is binary, that multiplayer either keeps its curent way of gameplay, or moves to remove assinine feinting then I'll gladly pick the second option that lets more people experience multiplayer, and have it be an immersive and pleasant experience.

 

[578]

Stop replying to that troll, he obviously has nothing to offer in terms of feedback, only talking sh*t and demanding fixes by not contributing to the discussion with real feedback. He has not the knowledge of the gameplay mechanics and calls everyone who feints a noob. He struggles in NW battles with 2 directional feinting and he is mad about it. Ignore him and please return to the previous discussion.

 

[Hrulj]

Stop replying to that troll, he obviously has nothing to offer in terms of feedback, only talking sh*t and demanding fixes by not contributing to the discussion with real feedback. He has not the knowledge of the gameplay mechanics and calls everyone who feints a noob. He struggles in NW battles with 2 directional feinting and he is mad about it. Ignore him and please return to the previous discussion.

I already told you what the problem is, it's not my issue you'd rather insult me than read cause I'm threatening your bread and butter. Chill out and allow other people to play.

 

[Orion]

Spent that much time very explicitly due to feint spam. I have a right to experience full game that I pay for

Game experience may change during online play. Don't mix up rights and privileges.

I already told you what the problem is, it's not my issue you'd rather insult me than read cause I'm threatening your bread and butter. Chill out and allow other people to play.

You told us what you think the problem is. Also, don't be a hypocrite. People other than you like a high skill ceiling, but you just ignore or discredit their wants because they don't match yours. Why don't you chill and allow them to play?

They are niche players and I have nothing against giving them niche modes of gameplay. But if the choice is binary, that multiplayer either keeps its curent way of gameplay, or moves to remove assinine feinting then I'll gladly pick the second option that lets more people experience multiplayer, and have it be an immersive and pleasant experience.

You chose not to experience multiplayer, nobody barred you from it. You experienced it and didn't like your experience. Tough ****, I suppose. No game can or will cater to every player. The competitive scene is also not niche, it's been the only constant in Warband's life since the beta. Players that give up in MP after 20 minutes and then come to the forums to tell everyone how it ruined their day are niche. Most players that don't like MP just go back to SP, or another game. They chill out, and allow other people to play.

You don't know the first thing about Warband's MP, feinting, or the competitive community & playstyle if you think they're just naked bunnyhoppers with two-handers. Get your head out of your ass and educate yourself. The only right you have here is to an opinion, but we are under no obligation to acknowledge or respect your useless opinion on this topic.

 

[Hrulj]

Spent that much time very explicitly due to feint spam. I have a right to experience full game that I pay for

Game experience may change during online play. Don't mix up rights and privileges.

I already told you what the problem is, it's not my issue you'd rather insult me than read cause I'm threatening your bread and butter. Chill out and allow other people to play.

You told us what you think the problem is. Also, don't be a hypocrite. People other than you like a high skill ceiling, but you just ignore or discredit their wants because they don't match yours. Why don't you chill and allow them to play?

They are niche players and I have nothing against giving them niche modes of gameplay. But if the choice is binary, that multiplayer either keeps its curent way of gameplay, or moves to remove assinine feinting then I'll gladly pick the second option that lets more people experience multiplayer, and have it be an immersive and pleasant experience.

You chose not to experience multiplayer, nobody barred you from it. You experienced it and didn't like your experience. Tough ****, I suppose. No game can or will cater to every player. The competitive scene is also not niche, it's been the only constant in Warband's life since the beta. Players that give up in MP after 20 minutes and then come to the forums to tell everyone how it ruined their day are niche. Most players that don't like MP just go back to SP, or another game. They chill out, and allow other people to play.

You don't know the first thing about Warband's MP, feinting, or the competitive community & playstyle if you think they're just naked bunnyhoppers with two-handers. Get your head out of your ass and educate yourself. The only right you have here is to an opinion, but we are under no obligation to acknowledge or respect your useless opinion on this topic.

And same goes to you. Heck with people like you defending it I'll do my best to ***** and moan as much as I can till feinting is gone completely and not just nerfed.

I know enough to know it's not fun, immersive or connected to mount and blade as it is. And your oppinion I ackowledge as much as you do mine. Multiplayer is useless, needs changing and feinting needs to be removed

 

[Orion]

Say they remove feinting. How do you trick someone into dropping their guard? As was previously mentioned to you by Knezevic, it doesn't take long at all to become proficient at manual blocking. How would you kill someone who is skilled at blocking if you can't trick them? You can kick them, I suppose, and it takes longer to learn how to avoid being kicked, but it's certainly a skill that many people have developed. So now what do you do? Hold? You can hold all day, but if you can't feint then I never have to change my block, so holding is useless.

What we have without feinting is a battle of patience between any players that are even moderately skilled. You can't just cut feinting, because the game becomes unplayable when the only way to kill people at all is by shooting or bump-slashing them on a horse.

 

[Hrulj]

Say they remove feinting. How do you trick someone into dropping their guard? As was previously mentioned to you by Knezevic, it doesn't take long at all to become proficient at manual blocking. How would you kill someone who is skilled at blocking if you can't trick them? You can kick them, I suppose, and it takes longer to learn how to avoid being kicked, but it's certainly a skill that many people have developed. So now what do you do? Hold? You can hold all day, but if you can't feint then I never have to change my block, so holding is useless.

What we have without feinting is a battle of patience between any players that are even moderately skilled. You can't just cut feinting, because the game becomes unplayable when the only way to kill people at all is by shooting or bump-slashing them on a horse.

Don't care, get good, invent something. Get shield bash. Get shield pull with an axe. Get a kick. Do whatever you want. All I know is I don't want naked two handers jumping around swinging like crazy.

 

[Orion]

Well congratulations, we already don't have naked two handers jumping around swinging like crazy 99% of the time. I guess you don't get on much to see that for yourself, preferring to ignorantly repeat it here forever in the hopes that someone will happen by and think it's relevant.

Shield bash is just a kick by another name, and I already suggested a shield- and block-stripping option with axes to compensate for reduced feinting. They wouldn't be enough to make up for a total removal of feinting. I wouldn't mind more limited feinting, but the game just won't go anywhere but the toilet without it.

 

[Hrulj]

Well congratulations, we already don't have naked two handers jumping around swinging like crazy 99% of the time. I guess you don't get on much to see that for yourself, preferring to ignorantly repeat it here forever in the hopes that someone will happen by and think it's relevant.

Shield bash is just a kick by another name, and I already suggested a shield- and block-stripping option with axes to compensate for reduced feinting. They wouldn't be enough to make up for a total removal of feinting. I wouldn't mind more limited feinting, but the game just won't go anywhere but the toilet without it.

As you said to me, there's always single player. Just got on it for your sake, and same ****. Two handers, naked, standing in the doorframes in sieges and whacking people, jumping up and down. Better no multiplayer than that.

 

[Orion]

I don't play siege, never found it very appealing in MP. Battle mode is where the game was a bit more serious, but now's probably the worst time to get into that because of how few people play anymore.

 

[Harmi]

Well congratulations, we already don't have naked two handers jumping around swinging like crazy 99% of the time. I guess you don't get on much to see that for yourself, preferring to ignorantly repeat it here forever in the hopes that someone will happen by and think it's relevant.

Shield bash is just a kick by another name, and I already suggested a shield- and block-stripping option with axes to compensate for reduced feinting. They wouldn't be enough to make up for a total removal of feinting. I wouldn't mind more limited feinting, but the game just won't go anywhere but the toilet without it.

As you said to me, there's always single player. Just got on it for your sake, and same ****. Two handers, naked, standing in the doorframes in sieges and whacking people, jumping up and down. Better no multiplayer than that.

I think you are not even complaining about the game or its mechanics, but the players itself. I know, the community is weird, especially on the servers. Because the game allows people to go naked, they will do it. For me, the feinting has never been a problem. If I see someone doing something, I think "Ok, I can learn that too". And then I learned it.

I usually don't do so much feinting than some players. I do few "trick swings" from different directions and then I hit. The pattern might be very easy to block by some very advanced, but I don't wanna start a feint circus either. The longer I need to fight with one, the more it means that he gets aid and someone backstabs me. So I wanna finish every fight as fast as possible.

If you wanna play more serious, then you might wanna download some mod, like CRPG (no idea how popular it's nowadays) or Full invasion (if you like to co-op with people)

 

[lolbash]

Please dont kill the multiplayer by removing feinting.

Unless they really want to become another For Honor.

 

[yedrellow]

A lot of the problems with feinting can be helped by modifying the damage equation, or specifically modifying the damage of attacks before the half-way point of a swing to not be as damaging when combined with speed bonus. At the moment if you take a great-sword fight, a close range transition from a side-slash to a stab provides very little telegraphing in the form of animation, then a sudden wall of death if the net movement between the two players is unfavourable. Similarly a transition to a side-slash can have the same effect with proper positioning/forcing (as naturally happens in inverse).

However if you bias damage more towards the centre of a strike, then there is an incentive for the feinter to deliberately delay time to hit to more coincide with the middle of the animation. This would also influence hilt slashes a bit too, especially in armoured fighting. I am not saying it should be like war of the roses where you pretty much have to hold your strikes to damage armoured people, but swing control should be a larger factor.