Don't feel pressured Taleworlds

[RoboSenshi]

Very well said. However, I do believe in gameplay over graphics. It's why I still play Warband mods today. And I honestly don't think TW has any competition. The game is quite simply one of a kind. I don't know why though. Maybe other developers are too busy trying to make the next fortnite.

@OP
I disagree. It's been cooking long enough in my opinion. Just get it out there and see how people like it. I've always been for early access. Didn't Taleworlds pretty much invent the damn thing?

I won't lie and say I'm not disappointed that 2018 is almost ending and I haven't played the game yet. I believe the fan base trusts TW to duly fix any issues presented at the launch of an EA. I'm afraid that if a release drought stretches even further than Q1 2019, TW would do some irreparable damage to both their loyal customer base and casual gamers.

True.
I do wish they'd at least release the multiplayer at least. I can't imagine that it isn't more or less complete yet honestly.
I can understand why they wouldn't want to do a staggered release from a business-standpoint though. Even though I don't agree with it.

I think they should release both tbh. Singleplayer and multiplayer Beta/EA. I'm sure 90% of people would welcome it.

 

[quicksilver67]

One of the most disappointing aspects of this game has always been the inability to share it. Sure, there's MP.... but let's be honest... it's not over-whelming, is it? I would love to be able to host up a server which shared the combat aspects and army recruitment/deployment of this game with the exploration and construction aspects realized by some of the mods out there. 

I would have to admit that it is true that many modern games are over-focussed on graphics and haven't put enough time into gameplay (IMO)... notably ARK, and others of its ilk. But you have a whole host of games which are overland RTS sandbox games; more like the MP version of this game, but over a much larger area. I'm talking about titles like Gloria Victis or Legends of Ellaria. They both have a territorial control aspect, as well as a construction aspect (something I think was under-appreciated in the original M&B release). Those are also both non-target combat games. The point is, those games are graphically appealing, similar in gameplay, and equally ambitious. They are being slowly fleshed out, and while they cannot be said to be "there" yet, I would consider them to be threats to this franchise. They are still "missing" something... but for how long?

 

[Duh]

KentuckyHinds explained this before but it's a myth that games need to be cutting edge to look good and that they are immediately out-dated and thus apparently visually unappealing when they aren't using the absolute newest technology. A game can look crap even if it has all the tech in the world - and it can look good even if it is "outdated". Because actually knowing how to use your tools and having a consistent artistic vision and output is equally if not more important.

Which isn't to say that there may not be related problems with Bannerlord (or any other game, really). It does seem likely that some technological changes during the course of development have caused some inconsistencies and the latest dev blog seems to touch on this a little:

“Readjusting the textures used in scenes in accordance with Physically Based Rendering was quite difficult in the beginning, however, a little practice helped to speed up the process.

https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/88

It is, however, quite difficult to judge this from afar. How many things are affected by technological changes? How far are they with readjustment? What are all the technologies used? Etc. I would be curious to hear more about your concerns in this regard - what technology do you believe they should be using and aren't using at this point?

And as for

One of the most disappointing aspects of this game has always been the inability to share it. Sure, there's MP.... but let's be honest... it's not over-whelming, is it? I would love to be able to host up a server which shared the combat aspects and army recruitment/deployment of this game with the exploration and construction aspects realized by some of the mods out there.

Orion and I discussed the issues with multi-party coop in-depth over here: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,337708.msg8819892.html#msg8819892

Essentially, it clashes deeply with the way the game is designed and any SP-esque multi-party coop would likely not be a professional product but a well-meant mess. Or an entirely different game. Battle time (single party coop), Persistent world or a meta-game beyond dedicated servers seem like the most viable approaches to cooperative play.

 

[vota dc]

Due to the nature of this game I think it needs the opposite of being polished: throw as much stuff you can. Only limits of M&B and Warband are the ones that aren't coded. If you cut stuff because you want to polish then even with modding it won't be added.
Being polished is good for unpatient players that play only native game I think.

 

[Lord Engineer (Castor)]

>The developers should release the game later rather than sooner so it'll be polished

There are plenty of cases of this not being the case, to the point where I don't think it's useful to think linearly in these terms. Many of the most polished and well-designed games have average development times, while the longest development times I can think of have resulted in absolute garbage. A lot of the rushed big budget games that come out could have done with a few months of development time, not half a decade.

Honestly a lot of modern games seem like they have only spent a few months in development regardless of the truth because of how rushed (and bad) they are.

Besides long development times are not necessarily the kiss of death it so often is, not sure if you remember this but more than a handful of well received games weren't exactly made in a day (TF2 used to be a vapourware joke; Starcraft II had been in development for years before being announced and still took an extra three years to finish (more if count Heart of the Swarm & Legacy of the Void); Diablo III had 11 years of development, seriously, Diablo II released in 2000 and development started the year after; LA Noire didn't exactly flop on release and I don't know about you but I love Red Dead Redemption 2 despite the 8 year development time. There are other games but you get the idea. I will admit though that most of these games had some big studios backing them or something).

I do agree with the idea that a longer development time does not necessarily equal polish for a game, though I also think that a shorter development may indicate a lack of polish. Make of that what you will.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Tf2 was essentially 3 separate development cycles. The current iteration of the game didn't exist in any form when it was started. Also while diablo III and other big budget games had long dev cycles, these are sprawling companies which switch teams and employees in and out as conditions in the corporate structure change. What's more if development for that game did start in 2001, basically nothing they had made would still be of any use by the announcement in 2008 given how much about 3d graphics and computers in general had changed in that time period. My guess is that the pre-development phase was especially long as they compiled concept art and scripts and whatever. Something similar happens with a lot of films where there might be years of writing before they even cast any actors.

Taleworlds is just one publisher and one development studio working on one project at a time. They don't have the leeway to shelve projects like that, and it's not something even big studios really tend to do anymore given how many shareholders are licking their lips for every release. So if their game takes 8 years to make, it is actually 8 years of work and not just a sporadic back-and-forth between their studio in Delaware and their intern camp in Brisbane. Even Duke Nukem Forever wasn't being worked on actively for that length of time.

 

[Orion]

Don't release it as an "EA" title. I think we all know the kind of junk being sold under the guise of "EA" which remains "EA" for years on end.

Too late for that, as early access has already been confirmed by the big man himself. Fortunately for us, that fits the pattern of previous titles in the franchise and we know how they turned out.

 

[Trueten]

Due to the nature of this game I think it needs the opposite of being polished: throw as much stuff you can. Only limits of M&B and Warband are the ones that aren't coded. If you cut stuff because you want to polish then even with modding it won't be added.
Being polished is good for unpatient players that play only native game I think.

That is a good point.
I bet the Bannerlord devs mostly implement stuff that can be well exploit in mods.
And the whole game is basically a platform for moddfing.

 

[RoboSenshi]

As it should be. Without modding I wouldn't still be playing Warband. Sayazan and Gekokujo are the last two connections to Warband for me. Once I'm bored with them I may never touch the game again. I suspect I'm not alone. I feel a lot of people have stopped playing Warband and if BL isn't out in time to fill the void, they may leave the franchise.

Taleworlds is just one publisher and one development studio working on one project at a time. They don't have the leeway to shelve projects like that, and it's not something even big studios really tend to do anymore given how many shareholders are licking their lips for every release. So if their game takes 8 years to make, it is actually 8 years of work and not just a sporadic back-and-forth between their studio in Delaware and their intern camp in Brisbane. Even Duke Nukem Forever wasn't being worked on actively for that length of time.

But don't we kind of know why the game is taking so long. There was some bad planning early on and decisions made that cause the dev team to rebuild some aspects of the game from scratch. I'm not sure if it's a rumor or there's some evidence floating around the forum.

 

[Bjorn The Dead]

Source video:

Spoiler

All questions and answers are praphrase and summary.

@ 9:15
Q: Why is taking so long to make this game?

Armağan: Our game is a complex game and maybe we are very perfectionist company. When these two factor comes together, some process can be prolonged. For example, our UI were made from scratch for 3 times but we are so happy about the third one. Another example is that we made our main map from scratch with a new techonology just a few months ago. So we can remake some features from scratch again and again until we are happy about it but I think we are at the end of the process of remaking things again and again.

 

[Revverie]

Please don't turn this into another Bannerlord When/Coop Army discussion, we have many, a lots of those

Just send Taleworlds love

 

[RoboSenshi]

I don't think anyone has asked for a release date. My point was just to disagree with the post. I feel they should be pressurized. Doesn't mean I don't love and support the company and their game.

No matter what, I'm going to buy the game. Even if it is released in 2025. Other gamers however might not and that can hurt the company financially in the long run. A little applied pressure can help keep them focused.

Source video:

Spoiler

All questions and answers are praphrase and summary.

@ 9:15
Q: Why is taking so long to make this game?

Armağan: Our game is a complex game and maybe we are very perfectionist company. When these two factor comes together, some process can be prolonged. For example, our UI were made from scratch for 3 times but we are so happy about the third one. Another example is that we made our main map from scratch with a new techonology just a few months ago. So we can remake some features from scratch again and again until we are happy about it but I think we are at the end of the process of remaking things again and again.

Thanks good buddy.

 

[Duh]

As it should be. Without modding I wouldn't still be playing Warband. Sayazan and Gekokujo are the last two connections to Warband for me. Once I'm bored with them I may never touch the game again. I suspect I'm not alone. I feel a lot of people have stopped playing Warband and if BL isn't out in time to fill the void, they may leave the franchise.

Player numbers seem surprisingly (to me) consistent. It's probably not all the same players and there are fewer people connecting via the forums atm, but overall a lot of folks are playing.

https://steamcharts.com/app/48700#All

 

[RoboSenshi]

Hmmm that is interesting. Players usually peak at around 12,000 on Sundays because of multiplayer events I think. Players have declined slightly over the last few months but not nearly as much as I thought.

Warband really is one hell of a game. Hell, I'm still playing it, albeit because of a few mods.

 

[Caps]

Hmmm that is interesting. Players usually peak at around 12,000 on Sundays because of multiplayer events I think. Players have declined slightly over the last few months but not nearly as much as I thought.

Warband really is one hell of a game. Hell, I'm still playing it, albeit because of a few mods.

they all play singleplayer and most of them most likely chinese or korean would be nice to see some statistics on this

the community is getting old just forget about the game and move on

 

[Lord Engineer (Castor)]

I think most people play modded versions of the game considering how popular mods are. Then again, I still play native from time to time, mainly when I need to take a break from some of the harder mods and for multiplayer.



I forgot to address this in my original reply but I don't actually agree wholeheartedly with the topic title, the sentiment that Taleworlds shouldn't feel pressured. I reckon they should, which they probably already do not just from the fans and the market but also probably from themselves. I really don't want to add onto that but I also don't want to say there is no pressure and I agree with what RoboSenshi said earlier about a little bit of pressure being good motivation.

I know this is a very minor change but I would change the title to "Don't feel too pressured Taleworlds".

 

[Honved]

Oddly enough, I never cared for Warband in its native form, although some mods such as TLD play noticeably better under Warband than with the original game.  If I'm going to play a native game, it will be original M&B, not WB.

As Lord Engineer so aptly put it, they should feel pressured, but not TOO pressured.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

As it should be. Without modding I wouldn't still be playing Warband. Sayazan and Gekokujo are the last two connections to Warband for me. Once I'm bored with them I may never touch the game again. I suspect I'm not alone. I feel a lot of people have stopped playing Warband and if BL isn't out in time to fill the void, they may leave the franchise.

You are not alone and fortunately there are people who contribute  with respectful criticism (I include myself) as opposed to the cloying fanaticism of "keep up the good work and take your time"...a devblog with zero information is well received...sorry?I doubt it.

Who currently plays native warband without any kind of addition or mod, you can play without Diplomacy, PBOD, Freelancer...Floris...etc?

And then there is one thing that kills me from Taleworlds:
Wild hermeticism...I don't understand it at all. Where is that relationship with the community and their feedback with it? a wasteland...not everything is e-sports.

Not everything is blows and sticks (the new map redesign is wonderful, the permadeath option is challenging, the dynasties thing is to extend the playable experience to unimaginable levels, the clan system...inverse kinematics....etc) but on the other hand I miss quite a few essential features of excellent warband mods that I still don't see applied (please, go to the Nova Aetas features section and cry)...and I'm very sorry but I'm sure I won't see part of them implemented.

But well...great, keep working hard...take your time...it's more, if for me were neither early access nor betas nor odd job, a finished and polished product that worth the wait from the first day and after the day of the release were improved by periodical and quality update support without losing sight of its main value (do not doubt Taleworlds) The Modder Community. Give us a masterpiece... because otherwise, with all this waiting time we will not be satisfied with a Warband 2.0 that has to be improved by the modders and I say it without acrimony even if it bothers. 

And keep that in mind: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Constructive Criticism

 

[RoboSenshi]

I didn't quite catch everything your we're trying to say but one thing I did disagree with is that the game had to be perfect. All I want for this game is a fantastic base. A base that allows modders to create any and everything they could possibly imagine. As long as features can be modded, imo they don't have to be implemented.

The biggest feature I feel is missing from the games is sea travel and combat. But I'm honestly not worried. It will be modded in before long. That's the spirit of Mount and Blade. Community driven innovative creativity. So that being said I personally wouldn't mind a Warband 2.0. That game was dope.

 

[Orion]

Seafaring & naval combat is confirmed to not be in the base game, but has been mentioned as a possible content update, DLC, or expansion by Armagan. He also said that they're a little on the perfectionist side, so you might disagree with Terco's comment about perfection but TaleWorlds doesn't.