Does anyone Deserve Death/What is the Value of Life

[Weaver]

you're confusing human life's value scale with hitman's or babyseller's pricelist. in poorer countries hitmen are quite cheap, whoever they're hired to kill. and kids are sold cheap not because their life has lower value, but because local mafias underestimate their work. sometimes pure economic reasons might kick in - like bringning too many babies to the market or someone damping the prices.
a few months ago some chick here sold her infant for 200 bucks and a can of vodka. those guys who bought it, sold it abroad for 20,000. so how much is the baby actually worth?

LLandy, do you mean to say that rape is worse than manslaughter? how's that?

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

LLandy, do you mean to say that rape is worse than manslaughter? how's that?

No, I mean that intent to cause harm is worse than accidental harm.

 

[Corvus]

It's a very big discussion on the justice system, imprisonment and punishments...

We had a talk in college on friday from a guy who was convicted of a double murder. Sentence was 99 years imprisonment, although the case was a bit dodgy - he was part of a gang robbery, and he wasn't necessarily to blame for the murders.
That was in 1984, he served 20 years and came out 4 years ago.

He still claims to be innocent of the crimes he was sentenced for, but he fully acknowledges that he deserved to go to jail. He went in with nothing... no education, no money, no life. He had been wandering the country, sleeping on road sides, engaging in petty crime and working odd jobs on buildings sites.
To him, prison was in some ways a great thing - he came out 4 years ago, with english qualifications, writes a weekly column for the guardian newspaper, has written several books, has a wife, kids, has a big house and has his own building development company. He also is the patron of two charities.
He changed his life massively, and is now contributing a lot to society.

However, does he deserve it? He helped end two people's lives. He probably has a far better standard of life than people who have never considered crime, who are just unfortunate in their upbringing. Is it fair?

So, if we had had the death penalty, and he had been given that sentence, he would not now be contributing to society - our loss. However, two innocent people did pay that price for his deeds.

 

[Suspect-Device]

He was lucky and given a second chance, which he took, whatever he did in the past is irrelevant as he has made the best of what he had and is now contributing to society in a positive way.

Once again, I don't really care what he did to the two people he killed, he is obviously a changed person and probably feels guilt for what he did, regardless he got on with his life and made a success of it.

 

[Nash]

He was lucky and given a second chance, which he took, whatever he did in the past is irrelevant as he has made the best of what he had and is now contributing to society in a positive way.

Once again, I don't really care what he did to the two people he killed, he is obviously a changed person and probably feels guilt for what he did, regardless he got on with his life and made a success of it.

Am I the only one that thinks this sounds retarded?

I feel like altering it for the sake of making a point (that, or to entertain myself):

Once again, I don't really care that he raped your wife/sister/daughter, he is obviously a changed person and probably feels guilt for what he did, regardless he got on with his life and made a success of it.

And no, wife/sister/daughter is not meant to describe the same person and you lot know that full well, so don't start cracking wise.

 

[Rabid Potatoe]

Well, it would be a waste of effort to off him now when he's not making trouble.

 

[Weaver]

no, you're not the only one. but it doesn't mean you're right.
one's past is his own burden. and only should concern him and people he might've hurt.
if you din't kill or neuter the ****er for raping your women, you probably forgave him. so if he's really changed i have nothing to hold against him. even if he did commit a crime (which he claims he didn't) it's solely on his conscience now.

 

[ecto_plasm]

That's why you kill them in the act.  Then they don't have to live with that crushing guilt of being a reformed bastard.

 

[Kissaki]

He was lucky and given a second chance, which he took, whatever he did in the past is irrelevant as he has made the best of what he had and is now contributing to society in a positive way.

Once again, I don't really care what he did to the two people he killed, he is obviously a changed person and probably feels guilt for what he did, regardless he got on with his life and made a success of it.

This is my basic outlook, too. It makes no sense to judge someone for what they used to be. It is only natural to do so, but it is a counter-productive intuition.

Personally, I believe life has no inherent worth: what a life is worth is solely in the eyes of the beholder, and society serves to protect the commonly perceived rights of each life. The same thing goes for "deserving": no one deserves anything, except in the eyes of other people. If you save a life, or you take a life, you deserve neither death nor cookie, objectively speaking. But people judge, based on their own sense of right and wrong, and society enforces. But all of this is neither here nor there. It only goes to show that I believe my opinion to be of no greater or lesser value than anyone else's. From my own personal viewpoint, though, no one deserves to die, regardless of what they have done. If their actions lead to their deaths, however, I still think they had it coming. But without deserving it. Death accomplishes extremely little, is in fact counterproductive as far as crime statistics go, and the condemned will have learned nothing. Capital punishment really only serves to pander to our bloodlust, our desire for revenge, and I do not consider that a worthy end.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Sort of a strange question but we are all told by our parents at some point that nobody deserves "x." Do you agree? Or do some people really deserve a penalty of their life?

My parents never told me "nobody deserves x". They told me "if you break the rules, you deserve everything you get", which is why I either don't break the rules, or am careful to not get caught breaking them.

So if you talk in class, you deserve to be shot?
I think "know the consequences" would be better advice. Obviously you don't "deserve" bad things just because they might happen after you act.

For example, if one man murders another man intentionally, then he deserves to be treated the same way -- death penalty.

Why? Because it's neat?

But if one man accidentally kills another man, for example, through dangerous driving, negligence, whatever, then rather than shoving him in a jail, which does nothing but clog up prisons and teaches the man nothing, he should be made to take care of his victim's wife/kids/whatever, thus still being made to contribute to society and (hopefully) being punished through his own guilt (only really works if the guy has a conscience).

"Hopefully" being punished through his own guilt? What good is suffering for its own sake =/

I believe that everybody who recognises the value of life is entitled to it -- but as soon as that recognition of life and freedom is taken away (murder, rape, whatever) then that person no longer has a right to it.

Why not?

 

[13 Spider Bloody Chain]

Interesting posts...

Is it just me, but is the whole concept of people "deserving" stuff (including life and death) nothing more than an extended form of saying, "Life isn't fair!"?

 

[gamerwiz09]

Sort of a strange question but we are all told by our parents at some point that nobody deserves "x." Do you agree? Or do some people really deserve a penalty of their life?

My parents never told me "nobody deserves x". They told me "if you break the rules, you deserve everything you get", which is why I either don't break the rules, or am careful to not get caught breaking them.

So if you talk in class, you deserve to be shot?
I think "know the consequences" would be better advice. Obviously you don't "deserve" bad things just because they might happen after you act.

You and I both know this is a bull**** argument.

The punishment should be equal to the offense.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

It was a just counter-example to the claim that people deserve "everything they get" when they break the rules.

The punishment should be equal to the offense.

Why?

 

[13 Spider Bloody Chain]

It was a just counter-example to the claim that people deserve "everything they get" when they break the rules.

The punishment should be equal to the offense.

Why?

Because most people would think that way, I think. So unless a rule-making body has some way of enforcing otherwise, it'd be wise for legislators to pay lip-service to that argument.

 

[kurczak]

The punishment should be equal to the offense.

Why?

In order to say what should punishment be like, one must first decide why he punishes and what is the aim of punishment.

Is punishment a mirror reaction to a crime? Or is it a treatment of a criminal? Or is it a measure that society uses to protect itself from harmfull behaviour?

 

[Sir Saladin]

No punishment can ever fit a crime and deserve has nothing to do with it. We just need to keep killing and dying because doing right ain't got no end. Don't mind Dirty Harry he hates everyone equally.

 

[Zilberfrid]

I heard prof. dr Icke about this, the repercussion should be somewhat smaller, so as to stop spiralling into violence.

As for people who deserve to die, I know a few, people who are so badly demented they can no longer legally decide to want to die, but feel themselves slipping away consciously.

 

[Pharaoh Llandy]

My parents never told me "nobody deserves x". They told me "if you break the rules, you deserve everything you get", which is why I either don't break the rules, or am careful to not get caught breaking them.

So if you talk in class, you deserve to be shot?

No, you deserve detention. I don't know where you live, but here we don't shoot kids for talking in class.

For walking down the street with bad fashion-sense, maybe, but not for talking in class.

I think "know the consequences" would be better advice. Obviously you don't "deserve" bad things just because they might happen after you act.

Yes, I am a big fan of the old cliché "You make your bed then lie in it". If you know the consequences of your actions, and the punishment of your actions, and you still go ahead with your actions, then you should take responsibility for your actions. I'm all for saying "if you talk in class, you'll get detention" at kids, but empty threats will eventually have no effect. There comes a time when you have to carry out the threats that you make, or stop making them altogether.

For example, if one man murders another man intentionally, then he deserves to be treated the same way -- death penalty.

Why? Because it's neat?

No, because I find a length of rope to be infinitely cheaper than keeping a murderer incarcerated for the rest of his life, and it puts my mind at ease. Dead men may not talk, but they also don't kill people.

But if one man accidentally kills another man, for example, through dangerous driving, negligence, whatever, then rather than shoving him in a jail, which does nothing but clog up prisons and teaches the man nothing, he should be made to take care of his victim's wife/kids/whatever, thus still being made to contribute to society and (hopefully) being punished through his own guilt (only really works if the guy has a conscience).

"Hopefully" being punished through his own guilt? What good is suffering for its own sake =/

Because if he does not have a conscience and feel guilt over his actions, then he has no reason to change his behaviour and may cause further harm to people in future? Suffering for its own sake is pointless -- suffering to teach a lesson is a much more worthwhile thing.

I believe that everybody who recognises the value of life is entitled to it -- but as soon as that recognition of life and freedom is taken away (murder, rape, whatever) then that person no longer has a right to it.

Why not?

Because I think hypocrisy is the worst sin.

 

[Tibertus]

I originally was going to say something extremely racist and reminiscent of the American Civil War. However, I decided instead not to.

I believe in the whole eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth deal. If you rape someone, you deserve to go to prison and have the guards explicitly instruct the bigger inmates to violate your anal cavity. If you perform premeditated murder, you deserve to be snuffed out. If you steal something, you deserve to have something of the same relative worth taken away from you.

As far as the worth of life. I think it depends on how much others value you. So, the way to increase your life's value, is to be doing something good with your life. Being responsible with your family and children, contributing to charities, and helping those less fortunate are good places to start.

 

[Jackamo]

If you commit a crime you get a bullet in the head. Need I say more?