Dev Blog 03/05/18

[parsehtml]<p><img class="frame" src="https://www.taleworlds.com/Images/News/blog_post_38_taleworldswebsite.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="290" /></p> <p>In previous instalments of our weekly updates, we introduced you to the major powers of Calradia and talked about the historical influences that we used as a foundation for creating our own take on the early medieval period. In this week’s blog, we thought it would be nice to put a face to a name, so to speak, by sharing each of the factions’ banners with you. After all, this is Mount & Blade II: <em>Bannerlord…</em></p></br> [/parsehtml]Read more at: http://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/58

 

[fuzzehpolarbear]

This is clearly one of those release date foreshadowing blogs. There are EIGHT banners in total, and THREE of them are exactly the same.

The similarity of the Empire banners clearly demarcates them as being "separate" from the rest of the pack, which would hint at subtraction.

Eight minus three is five, ergo Bannerlord will be released at some point within the next five years. That does still however leave the THREE all off by itself, what could... What... Could...

My god.

HALF.

LIFE.

THREE.

CONFIRMED.

...See you goochers next week.

 

[SenorZorros]

The entire Empire faction is taking the Holy Roman Empire cake in Bannerlord.

...
are you greek, are you kidding me or do you just not know what you are talking about...

@SenorZorros are you trying to tell us that the Holy Roman Empire is not the same thingy as the Roman Empire or the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire)?

(yeah that is a joke for anyone that is not @SenorZorros)

you know, I'm not sure but it very well might be. I can remember something about this Carl guy who was a German who decided ruling Europe was fun but had to stop these chaps named Leo and Ad from brawling after which Leo decided Carl was emperor or Rome even though the guy really had nothing to do with this lass called Irene which was actually ruling the roman empire...
you know, the one the Calradian empire is based on.

EDIT:

Eastern european culture's an untapped resource.

but then a lot of ignorance.

"vikings being merged with the scandinavians..."
Alright. You've entertained me, and props for the samurai comment. You've finally said something agreeable. But anyhow;

Romans are from rome, which is in italy. That's europe. They also conquered parts of north africa and western asia, and they didn't do it with "gladius and shield alone. Edit: Funny thing about the holy roman empire...

Now with the knights, well, Europe was a big place and knighthood spread throught, but when we think of knights, we're almost always thinking about the western knights of what's now France or Germany, maybe italy and some of their smaller neighbours. Central europe is almost the same, but the further east you go the more it differs from the popular imagination of knights. I recall some anecdote about recognizable European culture ending with lithuania; Beyond that, a bizzare people with funny clothes and delicious bread drinks. (Fun fact: I brewed my own Kvass for my english friends to try, most were horrified)  Eastern knights were changed, they had more contact with asians, especially the mongols.

Eastern europe (or Rus, as it was considered -non europe-) is an underexposed area entirely different from western europe.

Also everyone used shieldwalls. Any show you watch that says it's a viking taught thing is bull****.

You know... I kind of hope we will see the bizarre Russian structure of heritage where everyone swithes fiefs when someone dies.

 

[Wulfburk]

Nice icon for Battania, though that one ive seen countless times before in other games, also is the flag for Casse in Europa Barbarorum.

But really its an awesome design, actually want to tattoo it someday in homage to EB

 

[lolbash]

Eastern european culture's an untapped resource.

but then a lot of ignorance.

"vikings being merged with the scandinavians..."
Alright. You've entertained me, and props for the samurai comment. You've finally said something agreeable. But anyhow;

Romans are from rome, which is in italy. That's europe. They also conquered parts of north africa and western asia, and they didn't do it with "gladius and shield alone. Edit: Funny thing about the holy roman empire...

Now with the knights, well, Europe was a big place and knighthood spread throught, but when we think of knights, we're almost always thinking about the western knights of what's now France or Germany, maybe italy and some of their smaller neighbours. Central europe is almost the same, but the further east you go the more it differs from the popular imagination of knights. I recall some anecdote about recognizable European culture ending with lithuania; Beyond that, a bizzare people with funny clothes and delicious bread drinks. (Fun fact: I brewed my own Kvass for my english friends to try, most were horrified)  Eastern knights were changed, they had more contact with asians, especially the mongols.

Eastern europe (or Rus, as it was considered -non europe-) is an underexposed area entirely different from western europe.

Also everyone used shieldwalls. Any show you watch that says it's a viking taught thing is bull****.

Okay, you have some new info I did not think of. But how would they be translated In game? And in a fun way?

Did those funny people have a different set of armor or funny looking swords? Did they use different tatics during battle that is not "shining knight on an armored horse"?

Remember, just because it's historically accurate does not mean it is fun. Example being the Vaegirs in Warband being a boring faction to play as, and why I am glad the Nords are going to be mixed with the ingame slavs.

Besides, the sturgians don't even look that nordic at all, so what you're complaining about really is just that the flag is taking influence from the nords.

 

[Innocent Flower]

Since Vlandians are basically normans, they kinda got that viking influence anyway.
Batanians, in contrast, are maybe more similar to vikings than you'd think, since they're both not-conquered-by rome european societies. Now there's differences between celts and gauls, but functionally there's a lot of links. But, what I'm going on to anyway, is that maybe instead of every faction having one thing they excell at, maybe each faction will have two things they're good at and one thing they suck at.

IE
Vlandians; Good cavalry, Infantry. unimpresive archers.
Sturgians; Good cavalry, archers, unimpresive infantry.
Batanians; Good archers, good infantry, unimpresive cavalry.

Or something like that (eh, it doesn't seem great to condemn rather than praise, but I remember swadian knights or rhodok seiges and I shudder) 

Alternatively, you could do something crazy, and put some culture/economics in there. Like:
Has better than average low-teir troops but not fantastic hight ones, or vice versa
Low/high teir troops are cheaper than average.
Better armour in general.
Gains advantage in one kind of environment.
Knights are really footmen that ride to a nice flanking possition and then dismount to fight on foot. (Thinking of england)
Really likes to outsource troops (mercenaries, auxileries, use other factions...)

 

[Crowcorrector]

I like the designs of all the faction flags.  Especially the thought behing the geometry and colours.

The only out of place one is the Vlandian flag.  All the others are simple geometric shapes (bar the undetailed double headed empire eagle).  I feel like a geometric coat of arms based around a shield would be more fitting to Vlandia than a medium detailed lion

 

[Strazh_Rassveta]

The entire Empire faction is taking the Holy Roman Empire cake in Bannerlord, it would be pretty weird for the vlandians to be taking influence from romans when there is an entire faction out there based around the romans.

You love cakes?

 

[Hulagu]

That's more reason to not merge the sturgians, really.

Merging nords with vaegirs kills diversity, because now we've got this geography shift where three factions are north-west europe, the only one from the NE getting watered down by NC influences (that heavily influenced W europe. From at least the britain/north france perspective, we're basically nord-swadia) 

Aesthetic reasons? That's borderline racism. Eastern european culture's an untapped resource.

First off are you really getting this upset over a flag?

Secondly Merging nords with veagirs in my opinion only adds diversity because other wise there would have been nothing Nordic in there.

Thirdly Why does adding nords to veagirs kill diversity but having two factions that specialize in archery doesn't?

Lastly It not racism if your the same race. Scandinavians and Russians are both white.

As a non-European I found Sturgians much more diverse and attractive than Nords and Vaegirs and I have to congrulate to developers for this. I don't like Viking populism but I have to admit that Sturgian flag looks so cool/catchy and when I think Viking roots of Russians it doesn't look absurd. Also I believe Sturgians will contain enough material to feel Eastern European and Russian atmosphere to players.

 

[SenorZorros]

I can't really agree that the vaegirs are unfun. I liked them. But the main issue at hand is that in mount and blade there is way to little diversity in troops. You have cavalry, bad cavalry infantry with ranged,  infantry without ranged archers and horse archers. there are very few differences besides power level between a swadian and rhodok sergeant and a vaegir guard. A swadian knight and mameluk, a swadian men at arms, a Khergit lancer and a vaegir horseman/knight; a nord warrior/veteran/huskarl and a sarranid infrantrist/guard; Any archer or crossbowman; the tactics are highly similar.

what taleworlds really needs is a way to make different factions more unique in the troops they field. give us dedicated pikemen or halberdeers. give us firebomb throwers. Give us give us ai that makes light cavalry feasible. Give the Sturgians heavy horse archers or javelin-armed horsemen. Make Battanians scream warcries. Make the empire's army a stong but delicate force that greatly depends on banners and signals to be coordinated. Add variety in morale and price.
and of course make the cultural system different.

 

[Roccoflipside]

Since Vlandians are basically normans, they kinda got that viking influence anyway.
Batanians, in contrast, are maybe more similar to vikings than you'd think, since they're both not-conquered-by rome european societies. Now there's differences between celts and gauls, but functionally there's a lot of links. But, what I'm going on to anyway, is that maybe instead of every faction having one thing they excell at, maybe each faction will have two things they're good at and one thing they suck at.

IE
Vlandians; Good cavalry, Infantry. unimpresive archers.
Sturgians; Good cavalry, archers, unimpresive infantry.
Batanians; Good archers, good infantry, unimpresive cavalry.

Or something like that (eh, it doesn't seem great to condemn rather than praise, but I remember swadian knights or rhodok seiges and I shudder) 

Alternatively, you could do something crazy, and put some culture/economics in there. Like:
Has better than average low-teir troops but not fantastic hight ones, or vice versa
Low/high teir troops are cheaper than average.
Better armour in general.
Gains advantage in one kind of environment.
Knights are really footmen that ride to a nice flanking possition and then dismount to fight on foot. (Thinking of england)
Really likes to outsource troops (mercenaries, auxileries, use other factions...)

You do realize most of this info was already released with the faction blogs right? Like how Vlandia is #1 "heavy cav", Sturgia has best infantry, Battania is best archers w/ decent all around, etc. The info is all there in the older blogs, go back and read them.

Also, I wonder what Yaga would have to say if he saw the Rus faction w/ a Scandinavian flag  . I'm not complaining, just can already see the huge post w/ an unnecessary amount of really cool info on early Russian standards and design types

 

[Foeurdr]

I don't understand why so much people are making a fuss over the sturgian banner now. It's been said in the Sturgian blog that they have been made with both kievan rus and varangians in mind. They are more proto-vaegir since Nordlands is outside the map. They do have minor factions which are Nords.
Read the blog over Sturgia once more to remind yourself : https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/39

 

[Innocent Flower]

I don't understand why so much people are making a fuss over the sturgian banner now. It's been said in the Sturgian blog that they have been made with both kievan rus and varangians in mind. They are more proto-vaegir since Nordlands is outside the map. They do have minor factions which are Nords.
Read the blog over Sturgia once more to remind yourself : https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/39

Yeah, that's one minor faction. This is the symbol for the entirety of the faction.  It's like you didn't really read the post you brought up.

 

[King Edric]

Sturgian banner looks great, Battanian as well

 

[ArnulfFloyd]

Oh what cool banners especially Empire ones, still another reason for which I wait Bannerlord to coming, keep work on guys

 

[CaptainLee]

Ironhawk made a vid about the Vlandian flag being very similar to the Lannister one from GoT (as did someone here). Wonder if there's any copyright issues there. I mean, the Vlandian flag is similar to the Norwegian Royal standard in terms of colour and Lion and the Scottish royal flag in terms of Lion so there's plenty of inspiration there... but it's really similar to the Lannister one. 

 

[Varrak]

It reminds me flag of Valenciennes

 

[Intel Guardian]

I don't understand why so much people are making a fuss over the sturgian banner now. It's been said in the Sturgian blog that they have been made with both kievan rus and varangians in mind. They are more proto-vaegir since Nordlands is outside the map. They do have minor factions which are Nords.
Read the blog over Sturgia once more to remind yourself : https://www.taleworlds.com/en/Games/Bannerlord/Blog/39

I've been disappointed with Sturgia ever since they did a blog on it. What's the point of mixing Nordic and Rus cultures? It would honestly be better for them to just accept that the Nords had yet to set up a kingdom in Calradia. Either that or they could just retcon and include both Nord and Vaegir precursors. Anything is better than this nonsensical mish-mashing of the factions that is little more than a half-arsed attempt at trying to keep Nord and Vaegir 'fanboys' interested in the game (as if the lack of a ancestor to your favoured faction would be particularly influential on your purchasing habits), and is at worst an insult to both Scandinavian and Eastern European cultures. Perhaps it's because I'm a Vaegir fanboy myself.

You do realize Bannerlord is a video game yes? If so then Taleworlds has freedom to make Sturgia whatever they want. If they need to make them vikings then so be it. Since they are prioritizing gameplay over realisim Im pretty sure this is a deliberate choice to introduce diversity into the game.

How is making the Sturgians less diverse going to make the game fun?

Remember, Fun>Realism.

Nobody should argue against the developers having a degree of artistic licence, but Warband set the precedent that each faction was based off of a specific culture (or perhaps more correctly, a group of similar cultures). The fusing of the cultures is unnecessary and is unlikely unless you stretch the reality of the lore. Perhaps Taleworlds could write another blog in future about how the Vaegirs lost their Nordic influence while also being invaded by the Nords to the West.

After all, they seem to have all the time in the world.

Edit: Also, yet again the inclusion of "gameplay over realism" in a discussion where it has little place.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

Ironhawk made a vid about the Vlandian flag being very similar to the Lannister one from GoT (as did someone here). Wonder if there's any copyright issues there. I mean, the Vlandian flag is similar to the Norwegian Royal standard in terms of colour and Lion and the Scottish royal flag in terms of Lion so there's plenty of inspiration there... but it's really similar to the Lannister one.

Wasnt this lion symbol like the half of the western european heraldries in medieval times ?
Because I remember I had a Knight toy when I was a child and there was this completely same lion on its shield.

There is this another ''French'' thing I always see in medieval knight heraldics.

Spoiler

and these are other very stereotypy western european icons:

Spoiler

 

[Zombie Warrior]

The entire Empire faction is taking the Holy Roman Empire cake in Bannerlord.

...
are you greek, are you kidding me or do you just not know what you are talking about...

You are asking for the Vlandians to be more roman influenced, but seemingly forgot the fact that there are 3 factions taking up half the map in Bannerlord that are based around romans. Im just pointing out flaws in your thinking.

He did not ask for Vlandians to be more Roman influenced. The Holy Roman Empire and The Roman Empire are two distinct entities from a different time and place. I'll let you do the research before you further embarrass yourself.

 

[JuanNieve]

I would have preferred that the main banner of Vladia would have been the one carried the Wyvern/dragon